New Pool, couple of questions....

[NovicePoolMom]

Hello Everyone!
First time with a new pool, jumping on the covid summer bandwagon. Here's where I'm at:
Pool is half way filled from yesterday. Will set up pump and continue with fill today.

1. This is an Intex Prism 14x42. To calculate numbers for pool math, do I use pool dimensions or how high we are filling it? Using actual pool dimensions I'm coming up with roughly 4000 gallons, and if I use 36 inch depth (actual depth recommendation), I'm coming up with 3500 gallons. Additionally, it seems we are right on the border of which method to use? Seasonal or the full-on pool maintenance?

2. I have regular old liquid bleach, Spa Choice sanitizing granules (99% sodium dichlo-s-triazinetrione dihydrate). I also bought some Clorox chlorinating tablets (3 inch) before reading this forum. The tablets are trichloro (I also have a floater for 1" tablets, assuming I could cut the 3" tabs in half if I go this route). I still need to go out and grab some muriatic acid and borax. Am I missing anything? And where to start?

3. As I finish my fill today, should I add anything while it is 'topping off'? And do I start the pump while it continues to fill.

4. At what point do I start testing for pH?

I have two kiddos that are chomping at the bit to get in this pool and I can't find an article that addresses at what point they can do so safely. Do the dichlo granules need several days to kick in before the kids can swim? That will be rough if so!

Shoot. Just looked at the test kit I bought and it's a 5-way and it appears that the missing 6th component is likely to be test for CYA.... I can purchase the recommended one online but can I get started and kids in while waiting for this to arrive?

Thank you so much in advance for any advice/guidance!
Sarah

 

[NovicePoolMom]

Just downloaded the pool math app, states I should add:
21 oz of dry stabilizer for a targer CYA of 45.
22 oz of liquid 6% chlorine bleach.
Does this sound accurate? I am freaked out to get my CYA too high as I have no desire to drain off water.
Also, do I add anything initially for pH or wait to test.... not sure about those levels initially.
TIA, Sarah

 

[Richard320]

Welcome! Wave:

Intex says your pool holds 3,357 gallons, so you're real close. I doubt if using 3500 gallons will make much difference to the pool. Big props for figuring it out already!

If you can return the chemicals, you can do that. Or you can use dichlor to start chlorinating and raise CYA at the same time. It will take about 2 lbs of dichlor to raise CYA, but you'll only be adding 2 or 3 ounces per day, so it could take awhile. Dichlor is also highly acidic. So ideally, use plain CYA and plain bleach. Less juggling. But if you can't return the stuff or they're sold out of stabilizer, let us know.

Copying my advice to someone else Once it's full, fire up the pump and leak check things. If it's all holding, add 3 FC. Then mess around with the sock and the stabilizer. Then grab a sample and test pH. If it's good, you can add kids. If it's off, test TA and decide if you need to raise TA before pH, or just go straight to pH adjustments. Fix that, then add kids. Depending on results, it'll take anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour to get things balanced and swimmable.

 

[NovicePoolMom]

ok, shoot. I bought the stabilizer thinking that is what I added along with the bleach to adjust cya... sounds like I need straight cyanuric acid. I am heading to the pool store shortly, he says he has everything I need. Is liquid cya easier/quicker? I don't care cost at this point, just want to get it stable so kids can get in!
what do you mean by "add 3 FC" ?
If I get straight cyanuric acid, do I add the recommended 'pool math' amount over several days? It does not specify that in the app.
Also, what about the fact I don't have the test for cya?

 

[Richard320]

ok, shoot. I bought the stabilizer thinking that is what I added along with the bleach to adjust cya... sounds like I need straight cyanuric acid. I am heading to the pool store shortly, he says he has everything I need. Is liquid cya easier/quicker? I don't care cost at this point, just want to get it stable so kids can get in!
what do you mean by "add 3 FC" ?
If I get straight cyanuric acid, do I add the recommended 'pool math' amount over several days? It does not specify that in the app.
Also, what about the fact I don't have the test for cya?

Stabilizer is CYA. read the ingredients. Should say cyanuric or isocyanuric- blahblahblah. I don't see where you said you already bought it. I see dichlor and pucks. 3 FC is what you already figured for the bleach. We cant tell you amounts because we don't always know what strength bleach you're using. And a lot of people get secretive about the size as well. You've successfully used poolmath to calculate 3 FC once already, don't start regressing! You got the amounts of CYA and FC correct.

Add bleach, measure CYA/stabilizer into an old sock or nylon, test pH and TA and adjust them if needed, toss kids in. Don't make it more complicated than it is.

The CYA test can be added later. CYA doesn't go down much except with a lot of splashout. Evaporation won't lower it. So whatever you add will be good for a few weeks. Worry about a better test kit after those kids are in the water.

 

[getreal720]

Using the handy pool math calculator, you can be fairly trusting in the math vs the test... although the test is recommended, I'd be personally willing to trust the numbers until the testing materials came in.

For example. If I have a 3500 gallon pool, and assuming I start out with 0 CYA from the TAP water, I know I need to add in 19 oz (1 pound and 3 oz) of stablizer to get to a CYA of 40 PPM. I can trust that since I know how much water I have, and I know it'll take 19oz of stablizer powder to hit my target CYA level... I'll just toss the powder in, get it disolved and ciruclated and then use the CYA / SLAM chart to see my normal target chlorine levels of 5-7 ppm (parts per million) and a SLAM target of 16 ppm.

I would recommend you do the test as soon as you get the proper testing kits, but I wouldn't let it hold me up from using the pool!

The dichlor / trichlor products you have can be used now, but the method I perfer is something like cal-hypo (calcium hyopchlorate) which adds only calcium hardness to the water along with the chlorine or regular bleach, but bleach has become quite expensive and harder to find these days. I just ordered a 50 pound bucket of cal-hypo off of ebay for $150 (which is way up from the normal $100 ish I used to pay last year and the years before... my first bucket in 2017 I actually only paid $85 for).

The problem with the dichlor / trichlor products is that they also contain stablizer (also known as CYA or cynauric acid). CYA/Stablizer is something that needs to be in "a sweet spot" having too little is bad, having too much is worse as you have to drain the pool some and dilute it with new water to get it down. So over time, as you use the trichlor / dichlor pucks and powders... your constantly and slowly pushing up that CYA level and it can creep up to the point that when it gets so high... the chlorine can't effectively santize the pool. So no matter how much you add, you'll evently come out to a pool that's a nice shade of green / yellow / brown and is starting to look like a swamp. Using a product without stablizer eliminates that. You just get your CYA levels right at the start of the season and only should need to check it on occasion throughout the year / swimming season.

 

[getreal720]

I do also highly recommend the TF-100 pool kit. It's 72$ but let me tell you, it's worth every penny.

I bought my kit I wanna say at the start of the 2017 season, and bought a refill of the reagents in 2019. I will say up front, they do not recommend using the reagents past 1-2 years... but I have much of the original testing reagents left from my initial purchase 3 years ago and they all work just fine. The only things I've used so far out of my new kits are the reagents for testing chlorine and CYA.... the rest, you'll have so much of it that you can test till your hearts content.

I trust my test results with my kit 10 times more than I trust the pool store. One out of about five pool stores in the area were "close" to my readings (I tried them all and compared against my own results for fun) but the other 4 were so laughably bad and inaccurate on one reading or another that I'd never rely on a pool store. My TF-100 kit is my pools best friend!

The refill kits go on special sometime in early spring usually, cost about $40 or maybe a little less?

I wouldn't own a pool without it, regardless of it I had hired a pool service or not!

 

[NovicePoolMom]

Ok, cyanuric acid purchased. Pool guy recommended I dissolve in bucket of warm water than drizzle in pool. Thoughts? Also, it was mentioned above cya was added over several days. I'm confused, all at once or spaced out? Maybe that was only if using dichlor...
Also, no muriatic acid, said too caustic, sold me sodium bisulfate instead. Bad move?

 

[Richard320]

Ok, cyanuric acid purchased. Pool guy recommended I dissolve in bucket of warm water than drizzle in pool. Thoughts? Also, it was mentioned above cya was added over several days. I'm confused, all at once or spaced out? Maybe that was only if using dichlor...
Also, no muriatic acid, said too caustic, sold me sodium bisulfate instead. Bad move?

How to add each chemical is outlined in Recommended Pool Chemicals - Trouble Free Pool

CYA can be measured out and put in a sock and set in the skimmer or danging in the return stream or even suspended off a float bobbing around in the pool. After half an hour of soaking, a few squeezes will start it dispersing. It's a one time thing. It'll take a day or two to dissolve. Don't try predissolving it. It doesn't work and it'll just end up on the floor of the pool where it will leave freckles unless you constantly brush it around.

Dry acid allows sulfates to build up. Sulfates are tough on concrete and on saltwater chlorine generators if you ever choose to add one. You can use it, but don't buy any more. We suggest Muriatic Acid for a reason. Pool stores push dry acid for quite different reasons.

 

[Oly]

You have some great advice here so take it and run. Get those kids in the pool.

 

[NovicePoolMom]

Ok, first water testing this morning.
FC is probably around 4; darker than the 3, but not quite as dark as the 5.
pH is around 7.6, maybe a little higher.
Alkalinity is where I ran into trouble; by my calculation I multiplied 19 drops of the reagent by 10 to come up with TA of 190. I should mention at this point that my pool was filled by our community well so I'm wondering if that's why it's so alkaline.
Per pool math I added 2.7 oz dry acid (what the pool guy sold me, and only thing I have on hand currently).
CYA in dangling in the pool in a stocking in front of jet, dissolving nicely.
I feel like I'm sort of on the right path.... thoughts?

 

[Oly]

But are the kids swimming yet?
The TA in my tap water is high like yours. Do not sweat the TA simply test your pH and if 8.0 then lower it to the mid 7s. This is best done with muratic acid. Over time your TA will drop all by itself.
Tell the kids cannon-balls help lower TA.
Check the FC each day and keep it in your target zone for your (expected) CYA FC/CYA Levels

 

[NovicePoolMom]

Thanks for all the help. We've been using the pool and so far so good. Ordered the recommended test kit and have been using a 5-way I purchased in the meantime. Chlorine levels seem good. My pH does go up to around 8.0 and my TA is still 170. Added pH down last night and will recheck this morning. I know the pH down is not recommended, but to be honest I'm terrified of the muriatic acid. Also, I have an AGP; is pH down still a bad idea? Are there any health concerns with the sodium bisulfate?
On a related note, my testing kit advises to wear gloves, etc when testing water, which begs the question, what do you do with your 'tested' water? It's not a lot in the tube but I'm not sure if I need to be cautious with how I dispose of it... What safety precautions do you all take when testing and adding chemicals?

 

[Oly]

The TA will drop over time so do not stress about it simply lower the pH when it gets to 8. You can purchase a 14% acid that is less reactive and you can be safe and not terrified by using gloves and eye protection when you slowly add it slowly in front of a running return port and let mix for 30 minutes minimum before adding other chems or swimming.
More info on acid..... Acid - Further Reading
I'm sure you know but do not dump tested water into your pool. My opinion is let the soil microbes break it down well away from any edible plants or fancy flowers beds.
Post the results from your new test kit when it arrives and you can fine tune your water balance and verify your sanitation program.

 

[NovicePoolMom]

Everything is looking pretty good. Received my recommended test kit the other day. CYA is around 35, so am rounding up. Here's my question: If CYA acts as a stabilizer, and prevents chlorine from burning off, why then do we need more chlorine as CYA increases? Intuitively I would have assumed the opposite. Just curious.
For my little 14 ft, 3500 gallon pool I am testing chlorine and pH daily, TA every so often, and that's pretty much it. Is there another test that should be done for this size pool? Water looks nice and clear. TIA!

 

[wireform]

Because there is a sweet spot for the chlorine at a given CYA level. Once you have the CYA dialed in the chlorine will work well and not burn off from UV.