New Pool Build - Georgia

[Hotbobcool]

Hi all, I've gotten several quotes from Pool Builders in Georgia, and I'm down to 2. They use different equipment, but prices are almost identical. Does anything stand out to anyone?

Both Quotes:
18x36
3.5-5ft depth
18x7 tanning ledge w/ 3 bubblers
7x7 raised spillover spa
36ft raised wall with 3 LED descents and 2 firebowls
Flagstone or Travertine Coping
Concrete Paver decking (need to finalize which)

Option 1:
WetEdge Signature Matrix (basic colors)
2 Hayward Skimmers
3 Returns
1 Pool overflow
2 Anti vortex drains
2 LED pool lights
1 LED Spa light
1 Pentair Intelliflo3
1 Pentair C&C 150
1 Pentair Intellicenter i5 P/S
1 Pentair Ultratemp 140 H/C
1 Pentair Mastertemp 400 propane
1 Spa blower
1 Pentair IntelliChlor IC40
1 Dolphin Nautilus CC
1 Autofiller

Option 2:
Stonescapes Mini (upgraded colors)
2 Skimmers
4 Returns
2 Drains
3 LED pool lights
1 LED spa light
2 Jandy VSP
1 Jandy CV460
1 Jandy RS8 w iaqualink
1 Jandy VersaTemp 130
1 Jandy JXI400 propane
1 Spa Blower
1 Auto pilot digital w salt cell
1 Aqua IQ+
1 Autofiller
4 Pallets of sod


I would consider myself a techy and based on what I've read, Pentair may be more enjoyable for me, but the builder for Option 2 also seems to be a techy, and he prefers Jandy.

Pictures of the design are attached, minus the bubblers (the fire pit is for example only-will be portable).

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Some random thoughts-
-Jandy is fine, but I prefer Pentair for allowing the owners to install, fix, replace, play with easier and the warranty covers this.
-Option 1- Is that a Pentair cartridge filter?? If so, way way too small. Bigger is better and you can go longer between cleaning.
-Are you sure you want propane heat? Natural Gas is usually cheaper to run and may be already nearby?
-Need to know which LED lights spefically. DO NOT get Globrites.
-Option 1- A 36' pool needs at least 3 lights on the long side, facing away from house.
-I estimate that pool at about 19,000 gallons. That big baja shelf takes up a lot of room and doesn't allow for much lap swimming. Is anyone a swimmer? May need to tweak this??
- Do you see yourself running the water features a lot? Between the wall and the spa spill over this will have a strong effect on your pool's chemistry- the pH wil always tend to rise with use. You'll counteract that by using mariatic acid to lower the pH. No biggie, but just as a "heads up!".
-Option 2- what size salt cell? Go for at least 2x the pool's volume.

I'm sure there are others who can chime in, but that's all I know to say. . Welcome to Trouble Free Pools!

Maddie

 

[Hotbobcool]

Thank you, Maddie! I forgot to come back to this, but thank you for the heads up on thinking about the shelf and water features. Propane is our only option, unfortunately. We are going to be using Infinite Watercolors from Jandy for all lights.

I have decided on a pool builder and I wanted to ask a few questions of the group here to get their thoughts on how I should ask the builder to do plumbing. I will start a build thread when I have a dig date - should be 3-4 weeks.

Pool:
18x36 total pool. 3.5-5ft depth
18x7 tanning ledge w/ 2 LED bubblers
6x10 raised spa
36' raised wall with 3 LED sheer descents and 2 fire bowls

Equipment:
Jandy RS PS8
CV580
AquaPure PLC 1400
VersaTemp 130k BTU
JXI 400P
2x Jandy ePump 2.7HP
2x PSB220 Blower
2 skimmers
6 returns
2 drains
8 jets in spa
Never lube valves

I will have the heat pump/chiller and propane heater. The scenarios I would like:

Heat spa with pump
Heat spa with heater
Heat spa with pump and heater
Heat spa with heater and heat pool with pump
Heat spa with heater and chill pool with pump

Does anything special need to be done for plumbing this? If yes, what should I ask for or should I just explain the above?

I will have 3 LED sheet descents and 2 LED bubblers for water features. The scenarios I would like:

Middle sheer on, side sheers off
Side sheers on, middle sheer off
All on/off
Bubblers on, sheers off
Bubblers off, sheers on
I don't think I need to control the bubblers independently.

Same question for this.

I appreciate all of the assistance!

 

[YippeeSkippy]

All I can say in particular is you want all your lines home-runned to the equipment pad. That protects you if ever a line gets clogged or broken, the pool is still able to be up and running.

Going to call in some more knowledgeable equipment folks-
@ajw22 @mknauss @HermanTX

 

[HermanTX]

Since you are using the Jandy Infinite lights, ensure you have the latest version (V) on the Jandy automation to control the lights.
Confirm that the second pump will only control the bubblers and sheers. You will need to have independent lines back to that second pump for bubblers, middle sheers and side sheers. They will come back to manifold with a Jandy Never Lube valve on each line to allow it to be on or off. Do you want the valves to be manual or automated?

Why is there 2x Air Blower? Usually only 1 connected to a spa.

If the 2nd pump is for the water features, that leaves the main pump for use with the pool and spa going through filter, HP and Heater.
There are 3 modes - Spa Mode, Pool Mode and Spillover mode. You can select either the HP or the heater but it has to apply to either the spa, the pool or both. You will not be able to heat the spa and cool the pool at the same time.

Has the PB given you a plumbing design? It would be good to share that to have the full view of their plan.

 

[Hotbobcool]

Do you want the valves to be manual or automated?

I would prefer that they are automated, but not the end of the world if they're not I suppose.

*Edit- yes, one of the pumps is dedicated to water features.

Why is there 2x Air Blower? Usually only 1 connected to a spa.

I'm not sure but I can ask. Does it have to do with the 8 jets?

You can select either the HP or the heater but it has to apply to either the spa, the pool or both. You will not be able to heat the spa and cool the pool at the same time.

So I would not be able to heat the spa with the heater and the pool with the heat pump at the same time?
I can see in spring and fall needing to heat the spa and pool both, but the propane tank isn't big enough to heat both bodies for any convenient length of time.
Unless I could prioritize the heat pump? I could set temp to 80 for the pool and 90 for the spa and then 104 for the heater for the spa?

Has the PB given you a plumbing design?

Not yet. Waiting on that.

Thank you and Yippee!

 

[ajw22]

So I would not be able to heat the spa with the heater and the pool with the heat pump at the same time?

Nope.

While Jandy Installation documents will show a Heat Pump and Gas Heater connected in series or parallel I think you will find Aqualink control of multiple heaters rudimentary and limiting.

Read some prior threads as others have struggled through understanding what they can do:

Two Heaters Separate Controls in AquaLink RS?

Trying to get my facts straight with our pool automation setup and PB is being less than helpful. Prior to their crew coming out this past Friday for punchlist items (none of which involved the heaters), we were able to control our propane heater for the spa and our electric heater for the pool...

www.troublefreepool.com

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Hotbobcool]

Nope.

While Jandy Installation documents will show a Heat Pump and Gas Heater connected in series or parallel I think you will find Aqualink control of multiple heaters rudimentary and limiting.

Read some prior threads as others have struggled through understanding what they can do:

Two Heaters Separate Controls in AquaLink RS?

Trying to get my facts straight with our pool automation setup and PB is being less than helpful. Prior to their crew coming out this past Friday for punchlist items (none of which involved the heaters), we were able to control our propane heater for the spa and our electric heater for the pool...

www.troublefreepool.com

Google search results

www.troublefreepool.com

Thank you. So the limitation here is more the app itself and not the plumbing?

I reached out to Jandy to see if they had anything to add. Will update here if/when they respond.

 

[Hotbobcool]

Official response from Jandy. Dreams crushed.

"Yes, you can set the JXI to heat the spa and the JRT heat pump to heat the pool but in order to do so you would need to have a dual-body automation system. However, making the switch would require a substantial change to your pool equipment including the inclusion of a dedicated pump and filter for both bodies of water. With a combo system, both bodies share the same pump and accordingly, you wouldn't be able to heat both bodies at once."

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for the feedback from Jandy. I suggest you work with the PB to focus on the basics to ensure the plumbing and automation is set up for ease of use. You have 2 heat systems - the propane heater will heat your spa faster than the HP. Ensure that is main call when in SPA Mode. Also, when in Pool Mode you want to be able to use either the heater or the HP. The HP will maintain a given temperature of the pool over a longer duration, assuming you can prevent heat loss due to cool evenings. In summer you want the main call for the Pool to be the HP to cool the water.

You can put the system in Spillover Mode - suction from the pool but flow back to the spa and the spa spillovers into the pool to heat both bodies of water at the same time - it just will take longer to do that with either the heater or the HP.
My preference would be to heat the pool first in Pool Mode, then switch to Spillover mode which will heat the spa and then maintain temperature in the pool. This would have both bodies of water at same temperature. Then switch to Spa Mode to increase the temperature to use the spa while having the pool at a reasonable temperature initially.

 

[Hotbobcool]

Thanks for the feedback from Jandy. I suggest you work with the PB to focus on the basics to ensure the plumbing and automation is set up for ease of use. You have 2 heat systems - the propane heater will heat your spa faster than the HP. Ensure that is main call when in SPA Mode. Also, when in Pool Mode you want to be able to use either the heater or the HP. The HP will maintain a given temperature of the pool over a longer duration, assuming you can prevent heat loss due to cool evenings. In summer you want the main call for the Pool to be the HP to cool the water.

You can put the system in Spillover Mode - suction from the pool but flow back to the spa and the spa spillovers into the pool to heat both bodies of water at the same time - it just will take longer to do that with either the heater or the HP.
My preference would be to heat the pool first in Pool Mode, then switch to Spillover mode which will heat the spa and then maintain temperature in the pool. This would have both bodies of water at same temperature. Then switch to Spa Mode to increase the temperature to use the spa while having the pool at a reasonable temperature initially.

Thank you for this! Much appreciated - it sounds simple enough as you've laid it out. I like to overthink and overanalyze things

 

[Hotbobcool]

Thoughts on this plumbing?

 

[HermanTX]

On the suction of main filter pump - it is best to put the pool MD and 2 skimmers to the left of the automated valve and the spa MD to the right. That way when in Pool mode you isolate the spa suction completely and when in Spa Mode you isolate the pool suction completely.

Are you trying to create a heater bypass? The CV should be to the right side of the “tee”. There is no need to have a CV directly before a SWCG as the SWCG will not produce any chlorine when it is off.

Heater Bypass - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ajw22]

You should have a heater bypass for each heater so you can take one heater out of the water loop if it has a problem.

You should have a 2 way valve on every pump input and all output lines so you can blow out the lines and airlock each pipe if you decide to winterize the pool:

• Bubbler line
• water feature line
• MD-3
• Skimmer lines
• MD 1 & 2 line

Why two spa air lines?

Why MD 1, 2 & 4?

Are you getting the Jandy JXI heater with Versatemp? You should.

 

[Hotbobcool]

I'll have these changes made that you both suggest.

We won't winterize our pool, but still good to have the valves.

We are using the JXI 400PK which includes the versaflo bypass - listed incorrectly on there.

Regarding MD 1, 2 and 4. I don't know what that is but can ask. Haven't gotten an answer on the 2 blowers yet.

 

[ajw22]

We won't winterize our pool, but still good to have the valves

You don't know when life may cause you to winterize the pool some winter so that it needs no attention.

 

[Hotbobcool]

Updated. Does this make sense?

 

[ajw22]

You need check valves on your heater output lines for each heater bypass to prevent backflow into the heater when bypassed.

I don't know why you need a third heater bypass before the heaters.

 

[Hotbobcool]

You need check valves on your heater output lines for each heater bypass to prevent backflow into the heater when bypassed.

I don't know why you need a third heater bypass before the heaters.

Is this more ideal? I appreciate the patience; I'm actually doing this myself. I like to learn and play with new software

 

[ajw22]

What software are you using for the plumbing diagram?

CV for the heat pump needs to be on the output before the T.