New Pool Build and Backyard Remodel in Central California

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Next up was the trenching. Lots and lots of trenching. It was like a war zone in my backyard with trenches for drains, irrigation, electrical, speakers, gas, communications, and of course... all the stuff needed for the pool as well. :D

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And more trenches...

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All of which were soon filled up with a baffling array of plumbing and conduit. The pool equipment manifold can be seen in this picture.

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Here's the spa plumbing.

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And even the fire pit gets some love...

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With all the plumbing in place, it's time for gunite!!!
 
MAJOR progress!!! NICE!

Have you measured it yet? Add about 6" for gunite and plaster.........is it wide, long, deep, etc enough? NOW is the time to tweak or fix if needed.

So you are saying the patio and firepit area will be made with gunite instead of concrete? I guess I have not really thought about it but I guess they are really the same stuff when you think about it.

Kim:kim:
 
kimkats said:
MAJOR progress!!! NICE!

Have you measured it yet? Add about 6" for gunite and plaster.........is it wide, long, deep, etc enough? NOW is the time to tweak or fix if needed.

So you are saying the patio and firepit area will be made with gunite instead of concrete? I guess I have not really thought about it but I guess they are really the same stuff when you think about it.
Click to expand...

This thread is actually a couple months behind. Gunite has been done for quite some time now. lol

And yes, patio areas and fire pit are all gunite formed. Pics coming soon...
 
It was at about this time that my frustration with this whole process really began to build. I was quickly realizing that it was like a big game of "telephone". I had spent many hours going over my vision for this backyard project with my salesperson/designer. He'd sketch everything out and then hand it off to the CAD lady for input into the computer. After the designer and I spent lots of time tweaking and fine tuning the CAD drawing, it got handed off to the owner/CEO/contractor and we discussed the many questions we both had. The plan then got handed off to the workers for them to use as the blueprint for their work. Once things actually started getting placed in the ground however, I realized that many of the fine details were just being left up to the workers to figure out. I understand that they do this for a living and are good at their jobs, but I think that for the amount of money I'm paying for this job, I ought to get the final product that I asked for and had agreed upon with my designer.

If you look back at my first post, you'll get a good idea of what the "final" plan looks like. Icons for drains, drip irrigation, speakers, GFI's, gas connections, etc. were placed by the CAD lady as a reminder of which planters were to contain which items. You also may notice that basic things like returns, spa jets, and wall intakes are not shown. I had asked early on why these things were missing from the plan and was assured that they would be as I wished, but exact placement would be hashed out when we got to that point in the build. The end result was that the workers would measure, triangulate, and place items exactly where any icons were located on the plan (even though they were just randomly placed by the CAD lady), while the details that were really important to me (but not specified on the plan) never made it all the way down to them. Things were being hashed out amongst the workers with no input from me, the designer, or direct supervision from the contractor for that matter. I'd just get home and find that they had already been done.

I pointed out some of these missed details to the workers towards the end of the first rough-in plumbing day, and it resulted in a reminder from my contractor the next day that I was not to talk to the workers directly, but rather express my concerns to him so he could take care of it. I can appreciate that. I understand that issues can arise if the workers follow the homeowner's requests and it creates an unanticipated problem down the road. My problem was that these guys would get so much work done in a day, it would in many cases be unrealistic to have them undo everything when the contractor came out to look at it the following day. To compound the problem, I'd bring up some of these details with the contractor only to find that he was never made aware of them by the designer. A chain reaction of sorts which resulted in finding myself repeatedly having to try to justify my wishes to my contractor. Sometimes my OCD would get its way, sometimes I'd just have to compromise and move on...

To help prevent any more work needing to be redone, I was given a handful of color coded marking flags and was instructed to walk around with the lead plumber and place them where I wanted all my extras. For the most part this worked well, but the spray painted layout had long since worn off the dirt in my backyard so a lot of guesswork was involved. Pool plumbing specifics were still never covered, but I get the impression that 99% of homeowners just ask for a pool to be built, the contractor builds it the way he wants, and everyone goes home happy at the end of the day. I guess maybe I've been over involved with this project, but I'll go ahead and blame that on all of you lovely folks here at TFP. :D
 
Your pool, Your money, YOUR WAY!!!!!!!!!! should be the only way it was done gurr

I would be the same you are..............my pool, my way, or the highway for you. It would NOT have done for anyone to tell me I could not talk to the people working in MY yard, on MY pool! Heck when I was getting my new roof put on I told them there were some spots I was worried about or just wanted to see up close as they had always been a puzzle to me on how they were. When they would get to the spots I wanted to look at they would let me know and I climbed up on the roof and looked at it and talked to them about why was it like it was it did not look good to me. One place from before they found out why the roof looked bowed......the original roofers had use a cracked piece of plywood :shock: Thank goodness I was "smart" enough to never walk on it! I also feed them lunch and made sure they had plenty to water and such to drink with some fine beer waiting for them at the end of the job!

I can't wait to see the end of this story!

Kim:kim:
 
It has definitely been a delicate balance. I interviewed 5 different builders and I chose this one as he was much more of a builder than a broker and as such was able and willing to take on the rest of my backyard makeover. He's been doing general contracting since the 80's so he is well versed not only in pools, but in all aspects of general construction as well. Most everyone else wanted to build me a pool with a few feet of decking around it and call it a day. I think what has made this project so difficult to manage is the fact that we are taking on so much at once. If I was just building a pool, more focus could be placed solely on those details. Instead I've been using up my good will on unrelated details such as how my rain gutters are tied into the drainage system and how the inside of my fire pit is going to be sized/plumbed.
 
Am I too late to this party? Congrat's on the build. Exciting. You mentioned the thought you put into running wires and circuits. Can I suggest (if not too late)? Run several Cat 6 (or better) ethernet cables. Cable is cheap. Run as many as will fit. You can use for all kinds of things. Automation, ethernet, TV, video, security, comm's, etc. And for computers, wired is better than WiFi. And both is best. You can extend WiFi range with an ethernet cable to a satellite router. You can pump HD TV through Cat 6 (yep!). Video monitoring, too. Like I said, all kinds of things. Trust me on this one. Otherwise, in a few year's you'll be like "Dang, that's what that guy meant. I should'a, would'a, could'a..."

Do your plans show a "Party-Central-Station" way out back, in the corner there? Is that a wet-bar BBQ thing? Very cool. That's where the cable(s) should end up...

Don't be stingy with hose bibs, either. Place around the yard. Great for watering, or hosing down. I wish I had about three more in my yard!

I write about speaker wire elsewhere here. Discovered the hard way, it's not how loud of a system, it's how quiet a system! (What?!) I have speakers that can blast my pool, but no matter how low I turn them down, somebody wants them lower. So much so, that I can't hear them from the water. Solution: not bigger speakers, more speakers! (Which I cannot now run, because no way to route wires under deck.) So if had more wires run, I would add more, smaller speakers, so that the volume could be lower without compromising the coverage.

Your neighbors will appreciate that, too.

I've posted elsewhere some other "new build" ideas:

New construction startup
New Construction: Cathedral City CA - Page 5
 
Some great info Dirk, both here and on the other threads. I feel we have a like mind in regards to the endless possibilities and it's readily apparent that you're going to cost me more money in the long run. :D

I was super excited to learn about the HDMI over CAT6 converters when I started researching them. Will definitely be taking advantage of that technology to make some of my ideas come to life. I've got 3/4" conduit running pretty much everywhere in the yard, curious to see how many speaker/comm cables I can pull through that. There are also 3" chase pipes connecting each of the planters that are fully surrounded by decking so I'll be able to add (albeit not as easily) anything I forgot down the road. My controller will also be hard wired from the pad to the house. Cost me a few hundred bucks extra for the trench/conduit/wire pull, but I'm with you in regards to hardwiring whenever possible.

Back corner is a raised patio area with a built in fire pit. More of a roasting marshmallows while drinking beer area than a party-central area. Speakers, electrical, landscape lighting, drainage, and hose bib will all be available there however. A/V controls will be in the shed and the projector and/or TV will be located under the existing patio cover, well within range of the BBQ/bar area. :cheers:
 
Yes, it is easy to get carried away. The challenge is to not go overboard, with things that you might not ever actually end up using, vs trying to plan for possibilities up front that you won't even know you want until later! I tend to go overboard. I like to try to think of everything, and then at least leave a way to add things later. Run spare wires, extra conduit, etc. Sounds like you're on top of that. And the really tough part is, even if you think of everything, there's no way to know how the real-world result will work! Movie screen in the best place? Speakers where they need to be? Water? Electrical outlets? You can only do what you can do.

That's why this site is so great, to bounce things around. And why I'm not shy about sharing even my crazy ideas. So what if nobody runs with them. It's the dialog that's valuable, maybe sparking a completely unrelated idea. I bought my house with the pool done. How I wish I had been able to plan it out (and at the same time how grateful I am that I never had to suffer through a build!!). I envy/pity you!

So yah, I'm great at suggesting how others should spend their money!! Though, from the sound of it, you don't need much help in that dept!! ;)

Sounds like you're going to have a spectacular area. Nice job!
 

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So the build continued and my questions continued as well. Mind you most all of my questions were presented via text message as that is my contractor's preferred method of communication. Sometimes I'd get a quick text answer back, other times I would speak to him in person when he'd come out to check on progress. We had discussions about spa jets, skimmer plumbing, LED light placement, Hartford loops, and return placement among other things. And then one day it happened...

Toward the very end of the design phase, I had requested some deck jets be added to the plan. Of course deck jets quickly turned into a secondary pump and a high volume floor return in the spa (so I'll be able crank the negative edge without the noise and bubbles of my spa jets), all fed by a dedicated wall intake. I had just been to a pool party where their wall intakes were poorly located and were in my opinion an eyesore from the primary viewing areas. To avoid this happening to my pool, I made sure to clarify that my intakes would be on the front wall, in the deep part of my pool. A verbal agreement was made and the change order was signed. I was very disappointed when I found the intakes painted high on the back wall, right in the primary viewing area.

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I'm guessing this spot was chosen by the workers as it was the shortest, easiest run from the equipment pad and they had not been told otherwise. I quickly contacted my contractor and he agreed that yes, this was a mistake, and that the intakes would be located in the spot we had agreed upon. A day or so later the wall intake plumbing was installed. It was on the front wall, but in the shallow end next to one of my benches. Again, the shortest, easiest run.

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So... big deal? In the grand scheme of things probably not. However this particular detail was part of the vision I had in my head. The way I wanted it done was symmetrical, inconspicuous, and well... the way I wanted it done. Not to mention this was one of those details that would be plainly visible when the pool was finished. I sent my contractor a text and a photo describing how the plumbing had been done versus the way I was expecting it to be done. I quickly received a text back informing me that he was immediately pulling his crew from the job site, they were taking all my pool equipment back to the shop with them, that he was blocking my cell phone number, and that all future communication was to be submitted in writing, via postal mail, delivered to his business address. My jaw just about hit the floor... :shock:
 
Absolutely unbelievable. I'm so sorry to hear this news. Contractors. Amazing what they try to pull. Let us know if you are seeking thoughts about next steps, but suffice to say, the good news is that this happened in California, and he will get racked over the coals eventually, as this state is very much pro-consumer and anti-contractor. I'm in the throws of a bad pool contractor situation myself, so I have nothing but sympathy for you. My situation will resolve itself in my favor, as will yours.

What you were asking for, while justified, is actually a complete non-issue. This guy is off the rails and his actions are indefensible, even if you were a complete jerk about the way you were proceeding (not saying you were, just saying that doesn't matter in the least). Walking off a job in CA is a HUGE no-no. He's already buried himself. If you don't mind me asking: Have you given him any money? If so, do you think you are ahead or behind in what is owed? Does your contract have a three-day cancellation clause? That can be key in your situation.

Hopefully, he's a hothead who was having a bad day, and who will come to his senses, and this will resolve itself with an apology and a handshake and everything will get back on track. That said, if that doesn't occur in a day or two, I'd recommend you go here and get started. Let this guy know in no uncertain terms that you mean business and have no qualms about taking immediate action if he doesn't get back to work:

http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Filing_A_Complaint/

I wish I could convince you not to stress as this will resolve in your favor at some point, but I know from my own experience that is much easier said than done. You'll get great support from TFP, and rest assured, if you can, that this is a mere bump in the road to an amazing backyard, that WILL come to fruition, with this contractor or another.

And if it's of any help: while my situation caused me considerable effort, stress and grief, now that it's almost behind me, I have come to see that getting rid of the offender, and getting the repairs done (to resolve the damage my guy caused) has resulted in a significantly better pool than when I started, the majority of which is going to be financed by my contractor, thank you very much. Point being, in the grand scheme, this guy did me a favor, and he'll get what's coming to him.

Maybe your guy will finish your pool, and maybe he wasn't meant to, and if not, maybe the next guy will do a better job.

Hang in there... things will be better in the morning...
 
:shock: I have to remind myself you have lived this already and are just now catching us up! I am SO sorry it has taken this turn.....MAIL everything to him??? Block your number???? Pick up and take YOUR equipment??? WOW! Now where is my calming adult drink to help me wait for the next installment for "How to ruin a pool build for the owner".

Kim (NO cheering on this one)
 
Well, the mailing "request" is actually a good thing (if a pain). tonygiotta needs to do that now anyway, as it will be necessary should this take a turn for the worse (court or contractor's board). tonygiotta needs to document everything from this point forward. Certified mail, too. Even it his contractor comes to his senses, and comes back to the fold, tonygiotta needs to treat this guy differently going forward, in case he pulls this same stunt a second time, or another different stunt.

If tonygiotta's contractor is anything like the one I'm struggling with, he will dig his own grave. Half of the evidence I've amassed against my guy is his own email and certified letters, in which he inadvertently corroborates all my complaints. These guys are generally not too smart when it comes to this stuff. If they were, they wouldn't walk off the job in the first place (mine did the same thing). As I wrote, that's a big no-no here in CA, so tonygiotta's guy has already shot himself in the foot.

And that's why I asked about the 3-day clause. If he's issued an illegal contract, then that gives tonygiotta all kinds of additional leverage (with the CA Board and the courts).

It's a very unfortunate turn of events, but tonygiotta's done nothing wrong and if push comes to shove (and he follows the proper steps), he can hire another contractor to finish the job and charge/sue the original contractor for any additional expenses. He'll win those for sure, just a matter of the effort involved.

I hope for tonygiotta (and myself) that the CA Board's action might be enough to get resolution without a court case. And in tonygiotta's case, his guy might just come back on his own after a night's sleep (he'd be crazy not to).
 
Dirk said:
Well, the mailing "request" is actually a good thing (if a pain). tonygiotta needs to do that now anyway, as it will be necessary should this take a turn for the worse (court or contractor's board). tonygiotta needs to document everything from this point forward. Certified mail, too. .
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All very true BUT,but, but.................it take SO long and if the workers are doing something wrong RIGHT then............rock and hard place :(
 
kimkats said:
All very true BUT,but, but.................it take SO long and if the workers are doing something wrong RIGHT then............rock and hard place :(
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Email, plus phone/text, plus certified mail to follow up. All three. Document, document, document everything.

More to the point, I'm completely confused now. He's posting, yesterday, about plumbing in the wrong place, with pics, just a few days ago, but I just saw an earlier post that says the gunite is done? I'm lost. I'm out. Hope it goes well, or went well, wherever he is in the space-time continuum...
 
Sorry to leave you guys hanging. Stupid busy with work, wife has been dealing with chronic health issues for way too long, and I've pretty much run myself into the ground looking after her, the house, and the kids. I can't even seem to stay awake at night anymore to do my forum posting. However, believe it or not, my pool is still under construction. We had a few delays along the way and I put the job on hold last month. Just about ready to finish this thing off...


So, to pick up where I left off. Yes, I was stunned by the ways things had taken such a drastic turn. If you ask anybody that knows me, they'll tell you that I'm the last person they would ever consider calling a jerk. Nice to a fault and I get uncomfortable when I feel like I'm pushing someone out of their comfort zone. I am however pretty particular about things and may have a touch of OCD...

So, things were at a standstill for a week or so. I was debating whether I wanted to continue with my contractor or move on and find someone else. I was also trying to decide if I wanted to write a nice letter, a business letter, or a spiteful letter for my initial postal mail contact. It was about this time that my salesperson reached out to me. He told me he had been on vacation and that when he returned, my contractor sat him down and told him what happened with my project. He said he was very embarrassed about his overreaction, was pretty sure he had turned me away, and didn't know how to proceed. My salesperson (very cool guy by the way) assured him that I was a good person and would be understanding. Apparently my contractor is usually a very level-headed guy, but a number of job ruining events beyond his control culminated into a perfect storm on that particular day and my request was just the straw that broke the camel's back. It has now become the day that will live forever in infamy at his company as the day my contractor lost his s**t. Even his employees would refer to it as THAT day when it was brought up in later conversations.

My salesperson came over to my house and we walked the job site. We compiled a list of things that I wanted addressed and he brought them back to the contractor. Things slowly started moving forward again, and my plumbing got re-done (almost) the way I wanted it done. It was at least close enough this time that I wasn't going to raise a stink about it. Soon the gunite crew showed up and things began really taking shape.

Near wall with planters.

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Acapulco deck.

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Far wall with spa spillover.

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Spa interior.

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What a hard, busy, stressful life you are living :hug: I hope things calm down soon!

SO glad to hear clear heads prevailed and things leveled out and are moving forward. I am very glad your cont. was able to talk to the sales guy in such an open and honest way. Shows he cares but felt he had backed his self into a corner and needed help to get out.

Are we at real time now?

Kim:kim:
 

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