New plaster pool and looking for guidance.

Mikey0214

Active member
Oct 31, 2021
41
PA
Pool Size
17000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
Been following and reading as much as I can since we began this pool project in October of 2021. I have learned a lot but since we just got started I have a bunch of questions.

Here is a run down.

Plaster and water was completed on Saturday, May 28th, 2022. Pool company started the pool equipment and a start up / metal remover was applied by the pool company. I have been brushing the pool surface 2 to 3 times a day. I tested the water the day of, using my Taylor K-2006C test kit and here are the results … Temperature= 77 degrees, PH= 8.0, CH= 250ppm, and TA= 170 ppm. (First time using the test kit, I tried my best) Pool heater is not hooked up and will not be hooked up until after day 15.

Pool company said no chemicals until Tuesday, May 31st, 2022.

On May 31st, 2022, they came back and tested the water using a Taylor K-2006C test kit and these were the results. Temperature= 78 degrees, PH= 8.2, CH= 250 ppm, TA= 150ppm. They added 5, 3 inch chlorine tablets to the chlorine feeder and said no liquid chlorine for a certain amount of time (can’t recall the specific time frame, I’ll have to ask). They also used MA to adjust the TA and the PH. He said most important is to adjust the TA FIRST because it helps stabilize the PH and it prevents the PH from bouncing all over the place. He then adjusted the TA with MA by diluting the MA in a five gallon bucket of pool water and using the “Column method”, which I’ve read on here is a myth and doesn’t work. Then he adjusted the PH with MA by diluting the MA in a five gallon bucket of pool water and walking it around the pool. Out of curiosity, a few hours later I brought a sample of water to a local pool store (not Leslie’s) to have the water tested. Here are the results. Temperature= 78 degrees, PH= 6.7, Total Alkalinity= 100ppm, Calcium Hardness= 270, Free Chlorine and CYA= 0. They said everything looks good considering we are just starting it, not to do anything as the PH will rise from the new plaster, and within a day or so their should be chlorine available in the pool.

Today, June 1st, 2022, I tested the water myself and also brought it back to the same pool store for test results.

My results… Temperature= 80 degrees, FC= 3.2ppm, CC= 0ppm, PH= 7.0, TA= 120ppm, CH= 210ppm, and CYA= 0ppm (for the CYA test, I filled to the top of the test tube and could still be the black dot, so the CYA was below 30ppm)
Pool Store results… Temperature= 80 degrees, FC and Total Chlorine = 1.8, PH= 7.0, TA= 118ppm, CH= 153ppm, CYA= 8ppm. (I also retested the FC and the CH when I returned home since my results and their results were way off from each other and I was getting the same results as my original home test).

Right now the chlorine feeder is set to 5.5, should I turn it down a little and to what since my readings have the Chlorine at 3.2ppm?

In case it didn’t populate in my signature … plaster pool, 17,000 gallons (pool and spa), chlorine tablets (for now until I can use liquid chlorine), variable pump, have a cartridge filter, and the UV/Ozone Hayward sanitizing system.

A few questions. I’m guessing to trust my results over their test results? What is everyone’s thoughts? At this stage, what’s more important to focus on TA or PH? The Taylor test kit book suggests lowering TA with MA (like the pool guy did) but Pool Math app just recommends lowering the PH with MA , which will lower the TA and then I just aerate to increase the PH.

Why is the CH all over the place?

Thanks in advance for the help!
 
Yes, trust YOUR results. Always. TA doesn't just get lowered right away. It takes time and multiple doses of acid by lowering the pH first. But TA isn't a big deal right now IMO. PH is your biggest concern between the two. But right now it's a bit low. That could interfere with the curing process. In addition, the chlorine tabs are acidic which will also lower the pH. In many new builds, day 3 is the turning point to add chlorine and stabilizer to avoid algae. If you get algae all bets are off and you can't get aggressive with chlorine for 30 days.

I would recommend the following:
- Pull the tabs and allow the pH to remain more in the mid-7 range.
- Your CH is on the low end (for now) which is even more reason to allow the pH to rise a bit.
- Don't worry about a slightly elevated TA for now.
- Add stabilizer for a starting CYA of at least 30 ppm.
- Pull the pucks and use liquid chlorine to maintain a corresponding FC (based on that CYA) as noted on the FC/CYA Levels.

Don't expect your builder to know or care about TFP. Many installers have their on way of doing things. :brickwall: But maybe with some gentle persuasion you can find a middle ground. You want to comply with their guidance for warranty purposes, but also be knowledgeable enough to have these discussions. Hope that helps.
 
Yes, trust YOUR results. Always. TA doesn't just get lowered right away. It takes time and multiple doses of acid by lowering the pH first. But TA isn't a big deal right now IMO. PH is your biggest concern between the two. But right now it's a bit low. That could interfere with the curing process. In addition, the chlorine tabs are acidic which will also lower the pH. In many new builds, day 3 is the turning point to add chlorine and stabilizer to avoid algae. If you get algae all bets are off and you can't get aggressive with chlorine for 30 days.

I would recommend the following:
- Pull the tabs and allow the pH to remain more in the mid-7 range.
- Your CH is on the low end (for now) which is even more reason to allow the pH to rise a bit.
- Don't worry about a slightly elevated TA for now.
- Add stabilizer for a starting CYA of at least 30 ppm.
- Pull the pucks and use liquid chlorine to maintain a corresponding FC (based on that CYA) as noted on the FC/CYA Levels.

Don't expect your builder to know or care about TFP. Many installers have their on way of doing things. :brickwall: But maybe with some gentle persuasion you can find a middle ground. You want to comply with their guidance for warranty purposes, but also be knowledgeable enough to have these discussions. Hope that helps.
The warranty calls for keeping the chemicals in a certain range and the FC range is 1-3ppm’s. 🙄

Without adding any chemicals since Tuesday … here are the readings from this morning.

Temperature= 77 degrees
FC= 3.8ppm
CC= 0ppm or .2ppm (When I did the CC test (after I put in the five drops) I could have sworn it turned ever so slightly pink. One drop make it crystal clear again.) does this count ?
PH=7.4
TA= 120ppm
CH= 210ppm
CYA= <30 ppm
 
The warranty calls for keeping the chemicals in a certain range and the FC range is 1-3ppm’s.
There again is another example of generic warranty mumbo-jumbo. I got that as well with my FG pool. They have no idea about the FC-CYA relationship. At some point you'll probably find yourself making some personal decisions about the water. You are fotrunate the water is still clear. Cool water helps with that for now. But at any time you can enter all those test results in the PoolMath APP to get an idea of how the chemistry stands. The link below has sub-links to chemicals, recommended levels, etc.

Side note - keep an eye on the combination of CH, TA, and pH along with water temp. They combine to give you a CSI level that can be found in the PoolMath APP. The first 30 days of new plaster require a slightly positive CSI somewhere about 0.3 for optimal curing. Your CH is a bit low and the lower pH will make the CSI lower. You can probably allow the pH to rise to about 7.8 and be fine. Remember that chlorine tabs are acidic and pull the pH down, so watch those.

 
There again is another example of generic warranty mumbo-jumbo. I got that as well with my FG pool. They have no idea about the FC-CYA relationship. At some point you'll probably find yourself making some personal decisions about the water. You are fotrunate the water is still clear. Cool water helps with that for now. But at any time you can enter all those test results in the PoolMath APP to get an idea of how the chemistry stands. The link below has sub-links to chemicals, recommended levels, etc.

Side note - keep an eye on the combination of CH, TA, and pH along with water temp. They combine to give you a CSI level that can be found in the PoolMath APP. The first 30 days of new plaster require a slightly positive CSI somewhere about 0.3 for optimal curing. Your CH is a bit low and the lower pH will make the CSI lower. You can probably allow the pH to rise to about 7.8 and be fine. Remember that chlorine tabs are acidic and pull the pH down, so watch those.

Are you saying I’m fortunate the water is still clear because the free chlorine level is only at a 3.8?

I’m on the pool math app as well. I Entered the test results from this morning in there. The recommended adjustments in the pool math app will aim to get your CSI level to a perfect 0.0?

Sorry for the all the questions. Still learning and a lot to take it.

Thanks again!
 

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For what it's worth, you can save on reagents and use a 10ml sample on the FAS-DPD chlorine test. Just take the number of drops divided by half to get your FC number.

He then adjusted the TA with MA by diluting the MA in a five gallon bucket of pool water and using the “Column method”, which I’ve read on here is a myth and doesn’t work.

The "acid column" nonsense (where they suggest that dumping acid in one section creates a "column" that reduces alkalinity but not pH) is indeed a myth, but the "proper" way to add acid is to pour it into a bucket of water. So he isn't wrong necessarily in every respect. This is supposed to prevent splashing and possible injuries when working with higher concentrations of MA. However.. I found it more likely to splash doing it this way and most people on here just bring the MA bottle to the pool, open it, float it on the top of the water in front of a return (pump running, obviously), and gently pour it out in about a pencil-thick stream.

The other consideration he may be talking about is the risk of damaging the plaster by pouring a LOT of acid one single spot. Yes, this can absolutely cause etching and damage as the acid will immediately sink, but that's mitigated by pouring the acid slowly while the pump is running.
 
Are you saying I’m fortunate the water is still clear because the free chlorine level is only at a 3.8?
A combination of both a low FC and CYA level. Good to see you are using the PoolMath APP. If you have any questions about your levels as we move into the weekend, don't hesitate to ask. Remember, there are no silly questions. You can never ask too many questions. :goodjob:
 
A combination of both a low FC and CYA level. Good to see you are using the PoolMath APP. If you have any questions about your levels as we move into the weekend, don't hesitate to ask. Remember, there are no silly questions. You can never ask too many questions. :goodjob:
Here are my test results for yesterday ….

Temperature 77 degrees
FC- 1.8 ppm
CC- 0ppm
PH- 7.8
TA- 120pm
CH- 230ppm
CYA- 25 ppm


Tested today as well and here are the results …

Temperature 78
FC- 4.0 ppm
CC- 0.2 (tested after we had a few people swimming in it)
PH- 8.0 (added ~ a 1/4 of a gallon of MA and it brought my PH down to 7.2)
TA- 138 ppm (after I added the MA it brought my TA down to 130 ppm)
CH- 220 ppm
CYA- 25 ppm

Pool math was spot on for calculations and numbers after adding the MA.

When can I switch over to liquid chlorine? I’m waiting for a call back from my PB about how long we have to wait because when they were out here for the start up chemicals they said no liquid chlorine for a certain amount of time but I can’t remember that time frame to save my life.
 
There is no reason you cannot use liquid chlorine other then your Pool Builders superstitions.

From my viewpoint you should be using it now.
 
There is no reason you cannot use liquid chlorine other then your Pool Builders superstitions.

From my viewpoint you should be using it now.
When I mentioned liquid chlorine during their first visit to get the pump up and running they said something to the effect of you can’t shock it for 28 days days or somewhere around that time frame. Maybe because it is a new plaster and filled with water on the 27fh ?
 

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When I mentioned liquid chlorine during their first visit to get the pump up and running they said something to the effect of you can’t shock it for 28 days days or somewhere around that time frame. Maybe because it is a new plaster and filled with water on the 27fh ?

Bull feathers.

Using liquid chlorine is not shocking the pool when you put a measured amount of liquid chlorine in to follow the proper startup guide.


They just don’t trust you to know what you are doing or have tools like PoolMath .

Rather then teach you like we do they dumb it down to their level.

 
Bull feathers.

Using liquid chlorine is not shocking the pool when you put a measured amount of liquid chlorine in to follow the proper startup guide.


They just don’t trust you to know what you are doing or have tools like PoolMath .

Rather then teach you like we do they dumb it down to their level.

Thanks for replying ! I’ll test the water again when I get home from work.

How do those number look from Saturday and then yesterday ? Am I on the right track ?
 
Keep your FC around 3.0

Your CYA is 30. You cannot eyeball values between the lines since the sclae is logaritmic, not linear. So we round up. If the dot disappears between 30 and 20 we round up and call it 30.

Keep your pH in the 7's.

Don't worry about your TA. It will come down over time as you lower your pH.

Slowly raise your CH to 300-350.
 
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