New MN Owner Build – Equipment check, advice, etc.

[SoapySmith]

Well, nothing like jumping right in with my first post. About to order a kit from Royal for an owner build. I’m pretty handy with most things; built/GC’d my house and there’s not much I’m not willing to try, but I have no experience with pools other than swimming in them and a lot of research here – Pool School, forums, etc.

Basics:
20x44 rectangle with autocover, 3’4” shallow to 9’ deep (~30,000 gallons, I think)
Vinyl liner, polymer walls, cantilevered concrete deck, Latham Grey Mosaic liner, no border. Corner wedding cake steps with a bench on each side
Pentair 011018 3HP pump
Pentair Clean & Clear 520 sq ft filter
Pentair UltraTemp 110 Heat Pump
Pentair IC60 SWG

No spa or water features, so a fairly straight-forward build, I hope.

Questions:

1. I’ll have two skimmers; is it overkill to do 4 regular returns if I also have two step returns?

2. Any reason not to do all 2” PVC for both suction and return lines?

3. Is it worthwhile to do one or two of the returns as deep returns? Sounds like that helps with heating efficiency but I’d like to learn to winterize this myself, and if using deep returns means scuba diving to plug them for winterization, that’s not going to happen. I think that means they’re not worth the hassle but am interested in other opinions or confirmation.

4. Automation – This is where I’m especially fuzzy – how many actuators and relays do I need? It looks like I can buy the IC60/EasyTouch as a package with 8 relays, two actuators, and the transformer/power center (model 521150). Is that what I want? How many of each would I need for this set up?

5. Lighting – I’m thinking of going with the PureColor LED/Amerlite combo from Inyo Pools. Good choice? Is there a strong reason to go with 12V over 120? If I use 120 then I could probably integrate with Lutron/SmartThings for broader lighting integration anyway. Should I rethink that? Can the PureColor LED’s play nice with the EasyTouch, so I should plan to run them through that instead? If so, 120 or 12V?

6. Light placement - I don’t feel like I care about a lot of illumination, just enough for glow/ambience/minimal visibility. I’d like to just do one light, but it seems like there’s consensus that I need at least two for this size pool. The pool will almost always be viewed from the shallow end, especially at night, so I'm thinking one light centered in the shallow end wall and another 2/3 down one of the long walls… Unless someone can convince me that I can get by with just the one in the shallow end, which is what I’d prefer….

7. Should I go with a smaller pool (18x40) to get more SWG capacity? Main reason for 20x44 is my wife wants the 9' diving well and it looks like that isn't an option at that size. Or at least not without going custom and losing shallow end space, which we also want to avoid.

8. Royal includes an APC touchpad with the cover, or I can get a standard Coverstar touchpad (not wi-fi) for +$195. Any reason to pay extra for the Coverstar touchpad?

Thanks in advance to anybody with an opinion on any of this. This sure seems like a helpful and supportive place!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
I will jump in on a couple items.
Two skimmers is good. Be sure you align at least one of them so your prevailing wind blows to it. Be sure to home run each skimmer and have a valve on each so you can adjust.
More returns are always good. Also good to home run those (or at least in pairs) so you can valve them.
All valves should be Jandy Never Lube.
2" lines are good. Or 2" suction and 1.5" return. Others may feel differently.
No idea on deep returns. Never winterize here!
Automation - no spa, no water features. Why do you need valve actuators? Those normally come with pool/spa combo systems. Intellicenter is the newest Pentair automation. Take a look at that.
Lighting is up to our bling ladies ------ @kimkats and @YippeeSkippy
You will have plenty of SWCG capacity in your climate.
No idea on the cover.

Phew! Hope I didn't confuse anything ------
I suggest you read ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry and consider reviewing the entire Pool School eBook.

 

[SoapySmith]

Excellent - thanks! Good call out on the Intellicenter - I was confusing that with Intellichlor I think; didn't realize EasyTouch and Intellicenter were mutually exclusive. So I probably want to just buy the IC60, power center, and Intellicenter separately or as a package if possible. From searching the forum, looks like a call to Polytec Pools may be in order on that. Thank you for the advice!

 

[kimkats]

Hi there SoapySmith!! Maddie aka @YeppieSkippy is going to LOVE your pool with that diving depth!!

Lights-I WOULD get two lights. Don't have to be the really brights ones. Just enough to give it a glow like you mentioned. You will want some kind of light by the deep end so you can see if/when anyone is down there at night time. You also want a light by your steps to help avoid trips. Better safe than sorry on this one.

You are also going to want a light over your equipment pad. You will thank me the first time you have to go out there on a dark, stormy night!!

I am going to call in @Jimrahbe to give some in put on the other stuff like deep returns and such.

Kim

 

[gonfishin]

As a fellow Minnesotan, welcome!

I would suggest keeping your returns such that you can reach them from above for winterizing purposes. (My mom had an IG pool in the Minneapolis area for 50 years and getting the main drain cover out for closing was always a painful experience!)

 

[bmoreswim]

8. Royal includes an APC touchpad with the cover, or I can get a standard Coverstar touchpad (not wi-fi) for +$195. Any reason to pay extra for the Coverstar touchpad?

I paid the extra for the Wi-Fi Coverstar keypad. After about two years, I had never bothered to setup the Wi-Fi, but did like having a code, versus a switch in a locked box. Then the switch failed and I purchased the Coverstar standard switch as a replacement. I'm getting more practical on my view of electronics. Less to go wrong. I still buy automation and gadgets, but I take a measured approach.

I only lock the box when we go on vacation. My kids are teens. It's mostly for cleanliness, retaining heat and lastly, peace of mind when I want it.

But for your situation, I'd get the touchpad. It will probably last just fine.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Actually, i like the simplicity of my autocover's key switch. The tech who put our cover in said the keypad types have failures that you never have with the key. Other than not losing the key its a no-brainer to me!

Maddie

 

[bmoreswim]

Actually, i like the simplicity of my autocover's key switch. The tech who put our cover in said the keypad types have failures that you never have with the key. Other than not losing the key its a no-brainer to me!

Maddie

So I wasn't the only one whose failed. Good to know.

 

[dw886]

I paid the extra for the Wi-Fi Coverstar keypad. After about two years, I had never bothered to setup the Wi-Fi, but did like having a code, versus a switch in a locked box. Then the switch failed and I purchased the Coverstar standard switch as a replacement. I'm getting more practical on my view of electronics. Less to go wrong. I still buy automation and gadgets, but I take a measured approach.

I only lock the box when we go on vacation. My kids are teens. It's mostly for cleanliness, retaining heat and lastly, peace of mind when I want it.

But for your situation, I'd get the touchpad. It will probably last just fine.

Actually, i like the simplicity of my autocover's key switch. The tech who put our cover in said the keypad types have failures that you never have with the key. Other than not losing the key its a no-brainer to me!

Maddie

I just went from the switch to the keypad, even though I've seem more reports of the keypad failing. Our pool is covered 99.9% of the time, and I really like having the ability to run over to the keypad when I'm in the back yard, punch in the code, and open the pool to empty out the cleaner basket. It's a little thing, but it saves me from running inside to get the key. I'm usually working on something else when I think "hey, i should empty out the cleaner and clean the filters quick".

That being said, every day that it's really windy (which seems to be every other day this spring), I come outside and see the keypad cover is flipped open by the wind. With the locked cover on the manual switch, it was locked shut, so the wind couldn't open it. I'm wondering if that's one of the main reasons driving failures with these...on the keypad version, the keypad cover flips up so it's exposed to the elements if the keypad covers blow open...

Have either of you had the keypad cover flip up?

 

[bmoreswim]

No, but Mrs B may leave it open. ?

 

[SoapySmith]

Thanks to all who've given advice so far! I'm making a little progress as I received most of my pool kit last Friday and the excavator is coming to dig (schedule and weather permitting) this Friday, so hopefully I can get some walls set this weekend. I'll take a picture if there's anything worth taking a picture of! Anyway, another lighting question - I'm considering going with the SR Smith Kelo Nicheless lights because I like the look -- maybe 3-4 on one side of the pool, plus a couple of the micro lights for step lighting.

I'm seeing conflicting advice on whether I would need to winterize the conduit for those -- which I think would mean I'd have to pull the light and cord all the way out of the conduit to blow it out and cap it off, and then would (in theory) have to fish the cord back through to reinstall in the spring. But I think what I'm understanding from other discussions on this topic here, is that regardless of whether I have nicheless or niche lights, I should assume that there will be water in the conduit, but that assuming it freezes, it shouldn't break anything because it will expand towards the open end of the conduit. Is that the idea? I don't plan on doing a lot of evening swimming so if light winterization is going to be too much of a hassle I might just omit the lights entirely...

 

[ryantollefson]

Sorry, new owner here, and don't need to deal with freezing, so no idea about winterizing lights...

Our pool should be about 13,000 gallons, so quite a bit smaller than yours, and we opted for 5 nicheless lights. I know this might sound crazy, but I wanted a nice even glow, so I went out of my way to get Warm White (more yellow in color vs. blue tint) dimmable lights. These are low voltage, but you can hook the transformer up to a normal dimmer switch and then dim them. Admittedly I didn't check everything, but from what I was seeing, the color changing LEDs were not dimmable, so those were out for me. With a normal dimmer switch, I just swapped it out for a Z-wave smart switch that ties into the rest of our SmartThings/Google Home system. Now we can yell at the house to turn on the pool lights and they light up.

We did 2 x 6W LEDs on the Baja Shelf, 2 x 12W in the shallow end (one near stairs), and 1 x 24W in the deep end. Given the small size & only 6' deep, we probably should have done a 12W in the deep end, but it looks fine when dimmed down.

Here is the Honeywell Z-wave switch that controls our lights:

Really hard to get a good picture at night, in actuality, this is much dimmer & more of a yellowish tint, not blue: