New Hayward VSP pumps won't hold suction

[hillyjd]

Replaced my aging 1.5 HP single speed Hayward Super II pool pump yesterday with new Hayward EcoStar VSP pump yesterday. Install seemed to go fine. It was a drop in replacement and I used pretty much the same plumbing. Started pump for first time and noticed baseball sized bubble in basket, even at 3250 RPM. No noticeable leaks, but I went ahead and replaced all the intake and output PVC connections. I use 2" PVC with compression fittings at the intake and output connections. No change. Good sized bubble in basket but good flow at all RPMs. I noticed some air bubbles coming out of my in-floor nozzles, but I figured this was normal and bubbles decreased over time. No leaks that I can see. Ran the pump for some time this afternoon at 1750 RPM - bubble enlarged to cover entire basket, but still solid flow. Dropped the RPM to 1000 for 30 minutes and everything still looked fine. Put RPM back at 1750 and figured this is just a feature of the pump. Left for an hour and a half - come back and water level in basket is slightly below intake, so lots of bubbles. Like it can't maintain enough suction. Turned the pump off at this point.

Same issue with 0.85 HP Hayward VSP pump I put in last week to replace 0.5 Hayward single speed pump. Even at high RPM, good sized bubble in basked.

Full disclosure - I originally replaced my pool pump with a 1.5 HP Hayward MaxFlo VSP pump last week. Had the same issue with air in basket, but additional issue of not enough water flow to keep SWG going. I convinced myself that the MaxFlo didn't have the flow volume I needed and returned it and bought the EcoStar. During the interim, I put my old single speed Hayward back in the pool pump and it worked fine without any air bubbles in the basket.

I have tightened all the fittings as much as I dare. There are no water leaks, but it looks to me like somehow air is getting into both pumps. I'm pretty experienced with compression fittings and have replaced several pumps over the years. Seems like there's something with these VSP pumps that I'm missing. Should I try to tighten the housing bolts or something?

 

[mknauss]

First thing to check is the gasket in pump lid. Might be dried out and need Pool Lube. Try that.

Otherwise you go through the normal suction side issues. Run water over connections, etc.

Good luck.

 

[hillyjd]

Thank you. I did try running water over the connections with no change. But your first suggestion got me thinking. I don't recall seeing any gasket around the basket lid on either pump. I will check that as soon as it gets light.

 

[hillyjd]

Gasket is there. Just really recessed into the lid. I see no way to get the clear lid out of the lid frame. It's held in with some tabs, like they snapped it in there permanently. Not sure how you could ever change the gasket; I'm sure there's some technique. I did put some pool lube on the gasket as best I could. No change. Large swirling bubble in the top of the basket at high RPM. At lower RPM, the entire top of the basket looks like it has no water, but there appears to be solid water coming into the pump. So I don't think air is getting to the impeller at this point. Found this blog from 2010. Identical problem, but never seemed to get resolved. Hayward EcoStar - Air in Filter Basket

 

[mknauss]

I am going to ask someone that may help to weigh in --

Take care.

 

[patrick3229]

Hi hillyjd,

The first think I would check is to see if you are pulling in air anywhere common areas would be the lid oring, any unions or valves on the suction side of the pump and any fittings on the suction side of the pump. You can take a bottle of sopy water and spray all of these areas to see if any of the suds get sucked in, if so then that is your air leak (you can also do this with smoke - inscents).

The second and probably more likely scenario is that on the lower speeds the pump is not getting enough flow of water this is usually due to too much feet of head which is a result of too many 90's in your plumbing especially if you have some really close to the pump or filter. Could you post a few photos of your plumbing set up? This would help us identify if there are any areas of concern with the plumbing.

We have a few video's on both topics which you may find helpful and I have listed below...

Video on How to Fix and Correct Air Leaks

Video on How to Fix Plumbing Issues in Your Pool Plumbing

 

[hillyjd]

Patrick - There are quite a few 90 degree turns throughout. I tried the shaving cream test, and so far I can not see any place where it was sucked in. One thing that is noticeable - at higher RPM the bubble is much smaller but more spinning action. At lower RPM the bubble is larger but less swirling. I would think that if it were a leak, more air would get sucked in at higher RPM, but that is not the case. Of course, more water is getting sucked in too, so that may be the end result. I cannot see any bubbles coming out of the in floor cleaning nozzles. I still think the most telling data point is that my old pump (the single speed Hayward Super II) always had rock solid water in the basket. That was as of Tuesday morning when I began the swap out. I'm still leaning towards this being normal with VSP pumps, although it does not explain the bubble existing at high RPM. According to the spec sheet, the Ecostar is moving a lot more water at higher PSI than my old Super II. If it weren't for that bubble, I'd be really happy with how the new pump is functioning.

 

[mknauss]

I'm still leaning towards this being normal with VSP pumps

No -- I have a VS pump. No issue like you explain. Air is getting into your suction side somewhere ---

Take care.

 

[patrick3229]

Hillyjd,

Can you post a few photos of your plumbing?

 

[sktn77a]

When you put the lid on the basket, there is air in the top of the basket. When you turn on the pump, is it all sucked out or does the baseball sized bubble just stay there? If you have no leaks anywhere, it sounds like the pump isn't sucking the air bubble out of the basket for some reason. You could try putting a little dishwashing soap into the basket and agitate it to lower the surface tension of the water and see if that helps get rid of the bubble. Not a long-term solution but a diagnostic aid.

 

[patrick3229]

Hi Hillyjd,

Any luck with posting photos of your plumbing? Also have you cleaned your filter lately? If not then I would backwash your sand filter and see how that effects the pump.