New Gunite Pool, chlorine tab placement and heater bypass

[JerseyMike37]

We finally had our pool plastered Tuesday and Wednesday started with chemicals (muriatic acid 1/2 gallon) and brushing.


today is the first day to add chlorine and I did add 1 puck per skimmer like instructed by the pool company then I realized that the skimmer may not be the best place for it so bought a floating chlorine holder and went home to also check that the heater was on bypass and it was not. I have 2 questions:


1. should chlorine pucks go in skimmer during startup: the pump is running 24/7 and we have 2 skimmers (1 puck in each every few days) or should I place them in the floating chlorine holder? (I figure + of skimmer is quicker dissolving and - is wear/tear on skimmer area and pump/filter)

2. should I bypass the Heat Pump: (it does have a check valve and a bypass) I decided to bypass it today but then realized that maybe they left flow to it on for a reason?


thanks,
Mike

 

[JerseyMike37]

Just to confirm that I have it on heater bypass can someone take a look at below pics?


in this picture is the bypass after I turned it to bypass (it was about a quarter turn counterclockwise....open to all 3 ports from pool guy)
this is the zoom in of the valve



this final picture is the picture of the heater with the check valve

 

[Bperry]

Don’t ever put pucks in the skimmer. They are acidic and you don’t want acidic water going through your equipment. If you have to use pucks, use a floater, but long term the advice here would be to use liquid chlorine instead. It’s cheaper and has fewer side effects than the pucks.

 

[ajw22]

I cannot see how all your pipes are connected and what your water flow is to answer your questions about your heater bypass. Post pics of your equipment pad so all the pipes can be followed out to your returns.

As said above do not put tablets in your skimmer.

 

[JerseyMike37]

Thanks for the advise on pucks and liquid v. solid chlorine....long term I have SWG so will likely not have to add much once that is up and running.


Here are pictures of pool pipes and equipment

 

[ajw22]

Yup, it looks like you have your HP bypassed.

Do you have the mineral cartridge in your Nature2 Fusion? The minerals will accumulate in your pool and can eventually stain your pool.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JerseyMike37]

Yup, it looks like you have your HP bypassed.

Do you have the mineral cartridge in your Nature2 Fusion? The minerals will accumulate in your pool and can eventually stain your pool.

Nature2 Fusion - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

No I have it out, instructed not to use it until about a month I think

also planning on not going salt this season but instead waiting until next season

 

[ajw22]

No I have it out, instructed not to use it until about a month I think

also planning on not going salt this season but instead waiting until next season

You should NEVER use the mineral cartridge.

You can add salt and crank up the SWG cell 30 days after plaster.

When Should Salt be Added? In our industry, there seems to be some consensus to wait 30 days before adding salt to new plaster pools, yet some say it is okay to add salt within a couple of days of filling the pool. Who is right? This thread describes why it appears that the recommendation to wait 30 days before adding any salt is appropriate for most plaster pools, including quartz and pebble pools.

 

[JerseyMike37]

why would I never use the mineral cartridge?

I did look at the start-up instructions and they say to install the following cartridges:

after 7 days install the in-season mineral cartridge
after 29 days install the start up mineral cartridge (orange cap)


should I not install either of those?

As to water chemistry here are the recommendations:


for first 14 days the goal water chemistry is:
pH 7.0-7.2
alkalinity: 60-120
cyanic acid: 0-30ppm
calcium hardness: 150-200ppm
chlorine: 1ppm days 3-10, 1-3ppm after day 10


after 14 days:
pH 7.4-7.6
TA: 80-120
cya: 30-50
hardness; 225-375
FC/TC: 1-3ppm
Combined Chlorine 0-0.5

 

[ajw22]

I guess you did not read what I linked to in post #6 so I will copy it below...

The mineral system part of this system is totally optional. We do not recommend using the minerals. If you have either Fusion system it is best to use the SWG side with an empty mineral cartridge.

The minerals provide no sanitary advantage and can accumulate in your pool water and stain the pool surfaces. The Nature 2 Fusion mineral pack adds copper and silver to your pool. Copper can stain your pool and turn hair green.

Those chemistry levels are not what we recommend.

I suggest you read...

ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry

There are several items things every pool owner should know about swimming pool water. We share details on the basics of Pool Water Chemistry.

www.troublefreepool.com

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

Alternative sanitizers and "chemical free" pools--The Truth!

Pool owners frequently seek out "Chemical Free" alternatives to pool water sanitization. Many claims in favor of these systems and methods have been made (usually by the manufacturers of such systems) often without adequate scientific proof of their efficacy. Let's take a look at them and see...

www.troublefreepool.com

We see many folks every year who try and use the system and show up here asking for help with algae problems or stains in their pool. Often the only fix for the stains is a 100% drain and refill with fresh pool water. I am advising you not to start down that path as there are dragons ahead.

 

[JerseyMike37]

great information, thanks for that clarification.

I didn't realize that the ideal TA is a lot lower than recommended in most places....unfortunately I read that after adding some bicarb to my pool (current TA is 67) to try and get it up towards 90.

one other question, how long after adding bicarb can I add muriatic acid?

 

[ajw22]

Most places are recommending pool chemistry from the last century.

How are you testing your water chemistry?

Post a complete set of results from your won test kit in the format...

FC
CC
pH
TA
CH
CYA

 

[JerseyMike37]

I am testing with drops (Poolmaster 5 way test kit and I have strips at home too), I also bring it to the pool store

today my readings are the following:
poolmaster 5 way:
FC: 0.6
CC: 0.6
pH: 7.7
1 drop to lower to 7.2
TA: 60
CH: -
CYA: -

POOL Store:
FC: 0.07
CC: 0.06
pH: 7.7
TA: 67
CH: 70
CYA: 5ppm


Pool store advised adding 10lbs of bicarb now and then 3/4 gallon acid tonight


I added about 6lbs of bicarb....which I regret now


how long should I wait before adding acid (I figure about 1/2 gallon)?

 

[ajw22]

You are getting pool stored.

Your pH and TA are ok as much as we can tell from your tests.

You need to get a proper test kit. Either the Taylor K-2006C or TF-100 Test Kits. Test Kits Compared

Pool Test Kits - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

You need to be able to do the CYA test and you need the FAS/DPD chlorine test for accurate chlorine testing.

While your pH and TA are ok, your FC and CYA are not. You should add 30 ppm of dry stabilizer using the sock method and 5 ppm a day of liquid chlorine until you get your test kit.

How do you chlorinate your pool now?

 

[JerseyMike37]

Right now I am using tablets added 2 on Friday and then 2 more when they dissolved yesterday

 

[ajw22]

Right now I am using tablets added 2 on Friday and then 2 more when they dissolved yesterday.

How many gallons in your pool?

Please create your signature with details of your pool and equipment. It will save constant questions.

Where you give a plaster startup guide to follow during your first 30 days?

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Most startup guides say to add CYA to 30 PPM on day 4 and keep your FC at 1-3 ppm.

Your tablets are not raising your CYA or FC fast enough and leave your water open to algae. That is why you should directly add dry stabilizer and liquid chlorine to those levels.

 

[JerseyMike37]

updated sig, 20,0000 gallons

I did get startup instructions (for chlorine and CYA just to add 2 tabs on day 3 and I added 2 extra on day 5....I do want to use liquid chlorine eventually but the guy who started up the pool recommended against it for now because it will raise the pH too much and that is the critical item now (they recommend 7.0-7.2 for 2 weeks then increasing to 7.2-7.6 after)

 

[ajw22]

We have different views on things then your guy. I gave you a link to various plaster manufactures startup directions. None of them follow the process you were told to follow.

You need to decide whose advice you want to follow. It is your pool and you need to live with the outcomes.

What is the Effect of Adding Liquid Chlorine on pH?​

It is a myth that liquid chlorine will raise pH. The myth is based on a misunderstanding of chlorine chemistry.

Adding liquid chlorine to water can cause a temporary increase in pH which is usually offset by the chlorine reacting with organics and biological matter which are acidic (creates a proton) reactions. Thus, on balance, the net chlorine reactions are pH neutral.[7]

Most retail and commercial liquid chlorine products contain a small excess of lye from the manufacturing process but this amount of OH- is minimal and does not change the pH with normal levels of liquid chlorine use.

If one were to add significant amounts of liquid chlorine (for example, raising the pool water chlorine concentration to SLAM FC levels), then the pH rise would need to be offset by an initial lower of the pH with acid. This is why TFP requires a pool owner to adjust their pH down to 7.2 prior to starting the SLAM Process.

Adding liquid chlorine DOES increase the pH at first, however as it's used up the acid that's created lowers it back down to where it was before......thus equaling each other out making it pH neutral.

Is there an definitive amount that adding liquid chlorine will raise pH?​

There is no simplistic answer when it comes to pH calculations because pH depends a lot on what chemical species are in that water that can buffer pH. Carbonates, cyanurates and borates all exist in solution and will modify pH calculations beyond simply accounting for a specific amount of hydroxide ion (OH-) added or taken away.[8]

For example - at a pH of 7.5, CYA 50ppm, TA 80ppm, the addition of one gallon of bleach to 10,000 gallons of pool water will increase pH by +0.13. If you decrease the TA to 60ppm, the pH change is +0.17 and if you change the TA to 120ppm, the pH increase drops to +0.09. None of those changes would be particularly visible on a phenol red pH test. Pool Math use to call out the pH change when one added chlorine but because of programming limitations, it really was not accurate and it would confuse people who were trying to make FC adjustments to their water.

 

[JerseyMike37]

ok, thanks for all that info, that helps a lot....agree that my pool startup instructions are a bit different than the others listed (although they most closely mimic traditional startup in recommended levels....just not in recommending what is to be added)

 

[JerseyMike37]

I ended up adding some MA to get the pH down and fortunately we got some rain so that should help bring pH and alkalinity down a bit......now just to add the stabilizer and chlorine....any advise on how long to wait after adding MA for the stabilizer and how long after stabilizer to add chlorine?