Man you need to buy a used boat for this summer and take your kids to the lake every weekend until you get a pool.
New fiberglass pool is full of cracks... HELP!
- Thread starter mcaswell
- Start date
Thanks for the valuable info, Scott.
I think I may have stumbled onto the ideal solution to address my concerns. First of all, let me back up for a moment. Originally, full-thickness coping bricks were to be used. But once it was noticed that the middle of the pool was 1.5" higher (meaning that the tile and brick would have to be set to this level, making the entire pool 1.5" higher than originally planned), the builder decided to use these thinner "retro-bricks" to partially compensate for this unexpectedly higher level (so that the deck would not have to slope too steeply to meet up with the house).
I did some research and found that these retro-bricks are designed primarily to be used in certain renovation situations. But in the case of my pool, using these bricks seems to present obstacles to having an expansion joint between the brick and decking (if the collar extends out past the outer edge of the bricks, the shallow "ledge" behind the bricks will cause a weak point in the decking that will almost certainly crack... but the shell manufacturer's requirements may very well dictate that the collar needs to be a certain width and/or does need to be tied into the deck, meaning we're back to having the thin ledge behind the bricks).
The solution is to go back to using full-thickness bricks as originally planned. Since the replacement shell will be set level at the correct elevation, there will be no need to compensate by using the thinner bricks, and the regular bricks will, regardless of the width of the collar, will eliminate the shallow ledge behind. Now, the retro-brick is a slightly different color than the full-thickness bricks we had originally chosen... this didn't bother us, but since the tanning ledge has been done with the retro-brick (and will likely not need to be re-done), we don't want the tanning ledge brick to be a different shade of red compared to the pool coping brick.
However, I did some research into the company that makes the retro-brick product, and they also make regular coping bricks in the same colors (for some reason the builder appears to use a different supplier for his regular coping bricks). So, we'll require that he use the coping bricks from the same company that makes the retro-brick.
--Michael
I think I may have stumbled onto the ideal solution to address my concerns. First of all, let me back up for a moment. Originally, full-thickness coping bricks were to be used. But once it was noticed that the middle of the pool was 1.5" higher (meaning that the tile and brick would have to be set to this level, making the entire pool 1.5" higher than originally planned), the builder decided to use these thinner "retro-bricks" to partially compensate for this unexpectedly higher level (so that the deck would not have to slope too steeply to meet up with the house).
I did some research and found that these retro-bricks are designed primarily to be used in certain renovation situations. But in the case of my pool, using these bricks seems to present obstacles to having an expansion joint between the brick and decking (if the collar extends out past the outer edge of the bricks, the shallow "ledge" behind the bricks will cause a weak point in the decking that will almost certainly crack... but the shell manufacturer's requirements may very well dictate that the collar needs to be a certain width and/or does need to be tied into the deck, meaning we're back to having the thin ledge behind the bricks).
The solution is to go back to using full-thickness bricks as originally planned. Since the replacement shell will be set level at the correct elevation, there will be no need to compensate by using the thinner bricks, and the regular bricks will, regardless of the width of the collar, will eliminate the shallow ledge behind. Now, the retro-brick is a slightly different color than the full-thickness bricks we had originally chosen... this didn't bother us, but since the tanning ledge has been done with the retro-brick (and will likely not need to be re-done), we don't want the tanning ledge brick to be a different shade of red compared to the pool coping brick.
However, I did some research into the company that makes the retro-brick product, and they also make regular coping bricks in the same colors (for some reason the builder appears to use a different supplier for his regular coping bricks). So, we'll require that he use the coping bricks from the same company that makes the retro-brick.
--Michael
mcaswell said:ConcreteJack said:
Thanks, Jack. Is this still the case if the deck that overlaps the collar would only be 5/8" thick?
These bricks aren't very thick, so that "ledge" behind them would result in just a very thin layer of deck being poured there. Here's a cross-section illustration:
--Michael
Usually coping bricks are thick enough to allow the concrete to be thick enough if goes over the bond beam. If they do pour over the top of the skinny slab that was poured around the top edge of the pool, there will definitely be cracking at the change in thickness of the deck, and the thin area would likely deteriorate pretty quickly; the deck should be no less than 4" thick in its entirety.
One option would be to pour the deck and collar in a single pour and use a form to make an indention to lay the coping in. Then you could use the same pavers you have now.
Just one other thing, if you do go back with the same style pavers (bricks) for the coping, wouldn't it look better if they cut each one so that the grout joints between them were uniform?
Probably, but a lot more expensive. Lotsa labor and wasted bricks cause the cuts came out a little crooked.
Whomever laid that coping was cutting many of the wrong corners... The grout lines should be of a consistent width (the brick should be cut.)
Yes, it would look better that way, but actually this doesn't bother me much.
--Michael
--Michael
A lengthy demand letter is going to the builder today, outlining 3 breaches of contract (delay in completion, being set too close to property line, and poor construction quality), with detailed demands on how it is to be fixed. He will have until June 1 to respond, and if he agrees to fix his work, we indicated that we expect completion by June 30. He also has the option of simply refunding what we have paid him.
If he does not respond favorably, we will begin the process of finding another builder to come in and do the work, and will file suit. I'm still amazed that we are having to go to this much trouble to get such an established and well-known builder to stand behind his work.
Meanwhile, more cracks discovered (latest are in blue)...
These recent cracks (in red and blue) that span across the pool were not there before... when I originally sketched out the cracks, my wife and I both specifically looked very hard for cracks going across (since with the middle of the pool higher, it made sense that we'd see some like that). But they weren't there until just recently. So, it's getting worse.
Also, yesterday we both went out there to attempt the difficult task of actually counting how many cracks there were. It's hard because some of them are long and stringy, and others intermingle with each other. Regardless, I counted about 100 individual cracks, while my wife counted 60.
--Michael
If he does not respond favorably, we will begin the process of finding another builder to come in and do the work, and will file suit. I'm still amazed that we are having to go to this much trouble to get such an established and well-known builder to stand behind his work.
Meanwhile, more cracks discovered (latest are in blue)...
These recent cracks (in red and blue) that span across the pool were not there before... when I originally sketched out the cracks, my wife and I both specifically looked very hard for cracks going across (since with the middle of the pool higher, it made sense that we'd see some like that). But they weren't there until just recently. So, it's getting worse.
Also, yesterday we both went out there to attempt the difficult task of actually counting how many cracks there were. It's hard because some of them are long and stringy, and others intermingle with each other. Regardless, I counted about 100 individual cracks, while my wife counted 60.
--Michael
That may not be good...if I'm reading this correctly, he could walk and you would be responsible for demo-ing and removing the broken pool.mcaswell said:
Melt In The Sun said:
Actually, there's more to it... the law would require him to "restore the premises to its prior condition", so he'd have to remove the pool (and presumably he'd want to, since he could patch it up and sell it at a discount to make up some of his losses). He'd also have to fill in the hole if we really pushed for it, though in reality we'd probably leave it as a starting point for the replacement pool (this would save us some money on excavation, but the hole would still need to be modified for a different manufacturer's pool, and more backfill would be needed as well, so these probably mostly cancel each other out). Then there's the equipment... I guess he would be entitled to remove it, or perhaps we could negotiate a discount for keeping it.
--Michael
I don't recall if you said you were photographing the spread of cracks to document the issues. It seems like a good idea to photograph, then to email yourself to get a timestamp, but maybe that's overkill.
SJSwimmer said:
The cracks are very difficult to photograph (and I'm a professional photographer!). Some of them show up best with the sunlight hitting them a certain way (like the ones I posted at the beginning of this thread), which varies throughout the day, while others photograph best in the softer light of early morning / late evening. In both cases, it's best for the water to be perfectly still (even a bit of wind creates ripples that make it hard to photograph the cracks), and you sometimes have to shift your position around to be able to see them best and in their entirety (making it hard to capture these longer cracks in one image).
For example, the parallel lines of cracks that cut across the middle of the pool... I've yet to be able to get a good shot of these. I can get a close-up of a small portion of these cracks near the sides of the pool, but the portion in the middle is proving elusive. I might try spanning a long ladder across the pool so I can get directly above it (yeah, I don't see what could go wrong!).
--Michael
- Apr 23, 2012
- 14
Just wow, read the entire thread. Looking into getting a FG pool for my family and this is making my stomach churn.
This is a very rare situation. The installer tried to push the limits and changed the procedures for the proper installation of the shell to save himself dollars. He shot himself in the foot, as you can see.
Some installers are very good, some stink. Don't let price be the main thing. If someone comes in with a comparable pool and amenities for thousands less (I am not saying this happened here either), there is a reason and it's not normally to your benefit. The installation of any shell should not vary all that much.
Doing due diligence is critical. Meeting homeowners, visiting their pools that vary in age, checking the various services that report like Angie's List, county construction boards, etc... are critical. BBB to a certain extent is OK but most of us in the industry have found them to be interested in maintaining the dues from membership rather than their reported goal of protecting the consumer. I am not saying that all chapters act this way but many do.
Scott
Some installers are very good, some stink. Don't let price be the main thing. If someone comes in with a comparable pool and amenities for thousands less (I am not saying this happened here either), there is a reason and it's not normally to your benefit. The installation of any shell should not vary all that much.
Doing due diligence is critical. Meeting homeowners, visiting their pools that vary in age, checking the various services that report like Angie's List, county construction boards, etc... are critical. BBB to a certain extent is OK but most of us in the industry have found them to be interested in maintaining the dues from membership rather than their reported goal of protecting the consumer. I am not saying that all chapters act this way but many do.
Scott
PoolGuyNJ said:
I've heard that too. I guess this will be an interesting test, as I decided to file a BBB complaint last night. I had been thinking about it, as that "A+" rating he brags about on his website (which did influence my decision to hire him) was really bothering me. And, since the BBB says they do not accept complaints for "matters that are or have been litigated", I figured now was my only chance.
So, we'll see if that does any good. He only has one complaint against him listed, and it says "resolved with BBB assistance." Looking through their listing of other pool builders in the area, virtually all of them have A+ ratings. Some have had multiple complaints, some listed as "resolved" like my builder's, and others stating "BBB found business made good faith effort to resolve complaint but customer not satisfied with business response."
My guess, that's what's going to happen here... he'll tell them "Hey, I've tried really hard to make this guy happy. I wanted to bring in the manufacturer to fix the cracks, but he won't let me. Besides, rain caused his problem so I'm not responsible anyway. Oh, by the way, I mailed in my membership check last week... did you receive it?" Case closed. We'll see though, maybe they'll surprise me.
--Michael
VinceL
LifeTime Supporter
PoolGuyNJ said:
I knew that I wanted to get a fiberglass pool. I found that the manufacturers tend to control their dealer network. So, for a particular area there is only one dealer for a specific manufacturer.
I see way too many dealers with A+ ratings. But, when I checked the BBB for the local dealer for one brand of fiberglass pool, his rating was F.
That made the decision easy. But, I did contact another (highly recommended) dealer for that manufacturer. Given the issues with the local F-rated dealer, he is working with me.