New construction startup

May 10, 2017
10
Buckeye/AZ
Hi,

This is my first posting on TFP so please be kind. :)

Our pool is nearing completion and I am looking for any advice on how to properly start up the pool chemically. The pool characteristics should show in my signature assuming I followed directions correctly. Basically, I want to find out what I should add immediately to the pool after filling with the garden hose. Do I need to test the tap water to know what is needed or is there a general rule of thumb for new pools?

As a side note, I will be ordering the recommended test kit (TF-100) and hope to have it here prior to the pool's completion. I am also interested in purchasing an electric robot like the Dolphin Premier to replace the Sandshark that came with our pool. Would welcome any advice on that decision too.

Thanks in advance!
Dan
 
Dan,

Other than testing with your TF-100 I would do nothing until cleared to do so by the pool builder. The initial start up is usually done by them. Even if they do it wrong, it is better than doing something that they can later claim caused some chemical damage..

Once they turn the pool over to you, then you just need to post your TF-100 chemical readings... (All of them, as they interrelate to each other).. We can then point you in the right direction.

Adding chemicals to a pool without knowing the current test results is like driving in the dark with no headlights... you can't see where you are going.. :p

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, I forgot to add my Welcome to TFP... A great resource for all your start up questions...

I have had the Premier for almost 4 years and while it works great, if I were to buy one today I would get one with a top loading (and much larger) basket, like most of the newer models have..
 
Jim,

Thanks for the information! I will post my test results after the builder turns it over to me. I also appreciate the feedback on the Premier. I will poke around to see if there's a discussion on them I can get some recommended models from.

Thanks again,
Dan

Dan,

Other than testing with your TF-100 I would do nothing until cleared to do so by the pool builder. The initial start up is usually done by them. Even if they do it wrong, it is better than doing something that they can later claim caused some chemical damage..

Once they turn the pool over to you, then you just need to post your TF-100 chemical readings... (All of them, as they interrelate to each other).. We can then point you in the right direction.

Adding chemicals to a pool without knowing the current test results is like driving in the dark with no headlights... you can't see where you are going.. :p

Thanks for posting,

Jim R.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, I forgot to add my Welcome to TFP... A great resource for all your start up questions...

I have had the Premier for almost 4 years and while it works great, if I were to buy one today I would get one with a top loading (and much larger) basket, like most of the newer models have..
 
Hi, welcome to TFP! No need to ask to be treated kindly here. You won't find a finer group of people to help you with your new pool.

I just completed new pebble start up. I second the motion to do what your PB tells you (for liability reasons). That said, if he leads you to, or leaves you with, something that looks like this:

http://mmgtx.com/docs/STARTUP-by-NPC.pdf


then you are on the right track. Further, once you're PB gives you the OK to take care of the water yourself, come to TFP. Trust them explicitly, and DO EXACTLY WHAT TFP TELLS YOU TO DO. Don't try to interpolate, or mix together their advice with your PB's advice with a pool store's advice. Uh, uh. Just follow TFP. These guys know their stuff and don't tire of providing you with the advice you're going to need.

For example, I found TFP because my pebble installer and since-fired-pool-maintenance guy dumped the start up into my lap on day two of my brand new pebble, with nothing but that NPC Startup card. They vanished over a three-day weekend. Poof. With no pool maintenance experience, I was left to find an online resource and/or to use my local pool store. I did a little of each, while trying to decipher on my own the NPC instructions. I didn't even have the test kit yet. So I was using my local pool store for testing. They sold me liquid CYA. And I had skimmed over the TFP method of adding CYA (using crystals with a sock), but decided to ignore it. At the time I was still reeling and relying on whatever advice I could find, and kludging that together with my own ideas of what made sense. Long story longer, I didn't add the liquid CYA correctly and ended up burning a stain into my brand new pebble! If I had followed TFP instructions, I'd have used the dry CYA in a sock and been fine. DO EXACTLY WHAT TFP TELLS YOU TO DO.

Learn how to take care of the water yourself. No one local to you will care as much about your pool as you will. No one will test the water as carefully. Or add the chem's as carefully. It's not hard at all, and will save you a ton of dough. More importantly, balancing your water yourself will ensure that it gets done right, and will greatly extend the life of your pool over letting someone else do it. It can be intimidating at first, but after just a few days you're going to have it down. I had to replace my plaster after just six years because the pool maintenance company I had been using wasn't balancing the water correctly. If you think I'm exaggerating about the importance of maintaining correct water balance yourself, I'm not, at all. Ever since I replaced the plaster they destroyed, I've been taking care of the water myself, and I'll never go back to having anyone else touch it.

Lastly, and this is overkill for sure, but I did it and I'm glad I did: I happened to have a water meter laying around at the time I was filling my pool. The kind of meter you'd see in the street, that the water company uses to measure your house's water usage. This is what I used:

Master Meter Flexible Axis Water Meter available at Flows.com!

I had purchased it for another project. But as I had it in my possession when I was filling my pool, I ran down to Lowes and grabbed a couple of adaptors in order to connect it to my fill hose. This allowed me to determine, almost to the gallon, exactly how much water was in my pool. As you learn and use TFP methods, you'll need to know your water volume in order to calculate how much chems to add. There are simpler, cheaper ways to determine this than with a meter (using the dimensions of your pool), but none as accurate (not even close). Calculating chems for my pool is super accurate, because I'm starting with knowing exactly how much water is in it.

So if you happen to want to pursue this idea, be aware of two important details:

1.
You'll want to fill your pool as fast as possible. This covers the pebble as fast as possible, but also minimizes the possibility of creating any rings around the pebble as the water level rises. Typically, you'll be asked to use as many hoses as possible. If I was doing it again, I'd still use the meter, but I'd grab a few more adaptors from Lowes and run two or even three hoses into the meter. Hose bibs are typically fed with 1/2" lines. The meter I recommend above is 3/4". You get about twice as much water through 3/4" pipe than you do with 1/2", so feeding the meter with two or three hoses will work well, and should fill your pool plenty fast enough.

2.
Be careful how the water exits the meter. You don't want it to splash onto or run down the side of the new pebble. That, too, can create a permanent stain. Run a large hose after the meter to under the water line, so no splashes and no stain trails. I used my vacuum's hose.

If you're on a budget, this'll seem like overkill, but knowing exactly how much water is in my pool would be worth $100 to me. (That's less than the cost of one month of pool maintenance guy!) You'll know exactly how much chlorine to add. How much CYA to add. Etc. Etc.

If I still had the meter, I'd have hooked it up to my auto fill supply line to keep track of how much water was being added to the pool each day, and over time (because of splash out and evaporation). Numbers I wish I had for calculating other things I'd like to keep track of for my pool.

Ooh, one more thing. No matter how you fill your pool, make sure the plasterers cap off the return and vacuum ports. They should know to do this, but some will skimp on this step, or allow them to leak a little. When I bought my house and inherited the pool, the least attractive thing about it was a nasty line that ran from the vacuum port down to the deep end. I always assumed it was a crack, or a patched crack. Turns out it was neither. No, it was a stain that developed during the original fill, because there was just enough of a drip of water leeching out of the vacuum port. It tracked down the side when they were filling, then turned down into the deep end, following the path of least resistance. That's all it took. The stain became permanent, and then later attracted a calcium deposit. So it was quite noticeable, and very ugly. Be sure the plumbing is dry/empty, and be sure they seal up those ports correctly.

Good luck. And don't hesitate to come back to TFP to ask your questions.
 
Hi I am back now that my pool has been completed, filled, and turned over to me. The builder had me go to Leslie's and let them test the water and prescribe the initial startup chemicals. That has been completed as prescribed so I do not risk invalidating my warranty. So, here we are one day later and with TF-100 test results.

FC: 1.0
pH: 5.1
TA: 140
CH: 75
CYA: 23

I followed the directions that came with the TF-100, so hopefully I did everything correctly.

Thanks,
Dan
 
Welcome back --

Your TF100 cannot test pH that low. Are you sure that is correct?

Once you get the pH sorted, get 3 ppm FC into the water. Add 20 ppm CYA via the sock method and see what your CYA is after a few days.

How do you plan to chlorinate?

- - - Updated - - -

Also - does Buckeye really have that low of CH water? If so, you need to add calcium to get to 250 ppm. I would have thought all of Buckeye had hard water. At least my brothers house does.
 
I tested the pH with the meter purchased from tftestkits (pH Meter). I can retest with the TF-100 and report back the results.

I will read about the CYA sock method next. Also, I plan to use bleach/liquid chlorine.

RE: CH results. I agree that the water here in Buckeye is very hard. Our water provider is EPCOR, so depending on the day they can be using surface water or ground water for the supply. I can also retest the CH just to be sure it is accurate.

Thanks,
Dan

Welcome back --

Your TF100 cannot test pH that low. Are you sure that is correct?

Once you get the pH sorted, get 3 ppm FC into the water. Add 20 ppm CYA via the sock method and see what your CYA is after a few days.

How do you plan to chlorinate?

- - - Updated - - -

Also - does Buckeye really have that low of CH water? If so, you need to add calcium to get to 250 ppm. I would have thought all of Buckeye had hard water. At least my brothers house does.
 
I would use the drop pH test until you get it into a normal 7's range. Not sure the meter is designed to read that low.

If the pH is less than 7 via the drop tester, you need to aerate your water to raise the pH. With your high TA, it should rise quickly.

Aerate by pointing returns to the surface, running any water features, spillover, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

OK -- pH is high. So use muriatic acid to lower it based on the starting point of 8.2 and use enough acid to lower to 7.2. Circulate for an hour and then retest, dose as necessary to get to 7.2.

With CH that low I would suggest adding calcium. Sadly, only place to get it in Arizona is a pool store, and it is expensive.
Add enough to get to 150 ppm. Then re-test. Let us know.

Take care.
 

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Dan, you're in good hands with Marty. He guided me through my newbieness (not that I'm out of that phase, yet!) and my pool is awesome. Personally, I'd ditch that meter. They sound like a good way to go up front, but I've read all kinds of complaints about them and their calibration. Drops! That's the way to go. The drop test for pH is the easiest and fastest of all the tests. Very easy. Very accurate. And once you get it all down, doing the pH drop test along with the chlorine drop test will go quick, automatic. The meter will just slow you down, and likely give you bad results anyway, at some point (I've read that even after being calibrated, they can shift back out of calibration, so calibration is not a one-time thing)...

Trust TFP!

From my earlier post:

...once you're PB gives you the OK to take care of the water yourself, come to TFP. Trust them explicitly, and DO EXACTLY WHAT TFP TELLS YOU TO DO. Don't try to interpolate, or mix together their advice with your PB's advice with a pool store's advice. Uh, uh. Just follow TFP. These guys know their stuff and don't tire of providing you with the advice you're going to need.

A pH meter is a good example of what I meant by "interpolate." Sorry to preach/nag, I just know the one time I thought I knew better than TFP cost me a permanent stain on my brand new pebble. So, yah, now I preach/nag! ;)

And then I always add a little smiley face to make it all OK!
 
Ok, thanks for the additional guidance. Will report back soon.

Thanks,
Dan

- - - Updated - - -

Dirk,

Thanks for the advice. I only went with the pH meter because it came with a bundle with the TF-100. Guess I got a cool paperweight. :)

Thanks,
Dan

Dan, you're in good hands with Marty. He guided me through my newbieness (not that I'm out of that phase, yet!) and my pool is awesome. Personally, I'd ditch that meter. They sound like a good way to go up front, but I've read all kinds of complaints about them and their calibration. Drops! That's the way to go. The drop test for pH is the easiest and fastest of all the tests. Very easy. Very accurate. And once you get it all down, doing the pH drop test along with the chlorine drop test will go quick, automatic. The meter will just slow you down, and likely give you bad results anyway, at some point (I've read that even after being calibrated, they can shift back out of calibration, so calibration is not a one-time thing)...

Trust TFP!

From my earlier post:



A pH meter is a good example of what I meant by "interpolate." Sorry to preach/nag, I just know the one time I thought I knew better than TFP cost me a permanent stain on my brand new pebble. So, yah, now I preach/nag! ;)

And then I always add a little smiley face to make it all OK!
 
To my knowledge the pH meters are OK after being calibrated and being checked with the drop test every week or so. I would be suspect of a large jump in pH either way no matter how you test. pH moves, but typically not rapidly unless you are really forcing aeration with a fountain and such.
 
Oops, foot in mouth. I didn't realize TFP sold pH meters. I'm surprised, as I've never read a post where a TFP guide or moderator recommended a pH meter, TFP's or otherwise. They always recommend either of two drop test kits. I can see where a meter would be tempting, and convenient, but even Marty (above) recommends checking the meter once a week with the drop test. See where I'm going with that?

TFP, feel free to delete either of my posts if this is counter to the TFP teachings... It's just that now that I have the drop tests down (mostly), I trust 'em and like 'em...
 
Dan,

See this chart.... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Notice that for a CYA of 30 your FC should be between 4 and 6.. I suggest 6..

The very minimum you want to go is an FC of 2... If you try to run right above the minimum you are asking for trouble..

Being in AZ I'm surprised your CH is only 100, but suspect it will soon go up.. In plaster pool you want it to be between 250 and 350..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Thanks, Jim! Will increase FC now.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan,

See this chart.... [FC/CYA][/FC/CYA]

Notice that for a CYA of 30 your FC should be between 4 and 6.. I suggest 6..

The very minimum you want to go is an FC of 2... If you try to run right above the minimum you are asking for trouble..

Being in AZ I'm surprised your CH is only 100, but suspect it will soon go up.. In plaster pool you want it to be between 250 and 350..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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