New Build - Northern VA

[B.A.]

I have spent the last few weeks reading posts on this forum and have found it incredibly helpful. We are currently making our final decision on a pool builder in our area. We have narrowed it down to Blue Haven (BH) and Anthony Sylvan (A&S). Both have have been responsive and each have their selling points and points of view. As we sit right now, Blue Haven has been slightly more responsive, provided written quotes (2x) and a computer mock up vs A&S only verbal/hand written prices. Blue Haven is also currently just under $4k less than A&S with their summer promo.

We are not considering vinyl and the fiberglass options just didn't meet our designs and came out more expensive.

Pool designs are the same, 440 square foot gunite in ground pool with a 6' tanning ledge. I have copied and pasted BH's quote below. I requested model numbers and have added them where we have got them. Big questions we have right now are;

How does the quote look, what are we missing?
A&S uses Jandy equipment vs BH's Hayward, is it worth the extra $3870?
We intend to stay in the house 8-10yrs then move. Considering Pebletec or Quartzscape to make sure we don't have to replaster for someone else. A&S is about $1k cheaper $2580 vs $3865. Not sure if we need this, but if we do it narrows the price difference.

Salt... We are considering a SWG. A&S is right at $1500, BH is about $1000 but requires a $650 chemical start-up to put it right around the same place. Our local pool store is running a promo for a Jandy TruClear for $1500 installed.

Heater, BH uses Hayward BHP21254T and A&S the AquaCal SQ-166R HeatWave SuperQuiet ($7k w/ electical), and our local place has the same AquaCal SQ-166R for $5789 or the T-90 for $3999 installed.

Soils Report? BH says we are required to do one. A&S swears they don't have to do one. The county permit office says, sometimes...

We plan to use an out side landscape company for the decking and landscaping. Deciding between Pavers and stamped/brushed concrete.

I will install an aluminum fence for security. Most likely sourced online. As well as the pool cover.

Please provide any insight before we go under contract! Hoping to decided this weekend.

Thanks!

• Pool Size – 440 SF Custom Freeform
• Pool Depth - 3’6” – 6’0”
• Diving – No this pool is not approved for diving
• Oversized Tanning Ledge – Yes, 50 SF to include (1) umbrella sleeve
• Steps – Custom off Tanning ledge
• Deep End Bench – (1) 8’
• Coping – Tumbled Flagstone or Standard Bullnose Paver 6” (T.B.D.)
• Tile – Standard 6” (T.B.D.)
• Interior Finish – White Marbelite
• Pool Lights – 1 LED Colored
• Skimmers – 1
• Returns – 3
• Main Drains – Dual anti-vortex / anti-entrapment
• Dirt rough graded on site.
• Drawing, Layout, Engineered Plans, Building Permit, Normal Excavation, Insurance Included, Crushed Stone pool base, Hydrostatic relief plugs and barrier fence included
• Plumbing installation, steel reinforcing, bonding and all inspections are included. Pool equipment to be set within 18’ of deep end skimmer or as depicted in design video.

Equipment Package Included

• DE Filter (Hayward DE6020)
• Variable Speed Pool Pump (Hayward Vaiable Speed Pump 1.85HP- SP3202 VSP ND)
• Inline Chlorinator
• Smart Pure Mineral Package
• Smart Maintenance Package with telescoping pole, brush and water test kit
• Initial Start-up, Pool Indoctrination, Pool School and Loop-loc complimentary measurement
• OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT ADD-ONS
• Tiger Shark QC Robotic Vacuum – ADD $1,735
• 125k BTU Heat Pump – ADD $4,725 (Hayward BHP21254T)
• Change DE Filter to Cartridge – SAVE $350
• Ozone Generator – ADD $1500
• Quartzscapes Plaster Upgrade (http://www.nptpool.com/finishes/quartzscapes/quartzscapes-regular-series) – ADD $3,865

Base Electrical Package Included

• Includes permit, all material and labor for complete installation of included electrical equipment, trenching, inspections, GFI convenience outlet at equipment and up to 100’ of Home Run included
  • Additional electrical charges may be incurred if Home Run exceeds 100’, if panel upgrades are 8needed or additional outlets are needed and/or requested
  • BHP to heavy up conduit and amps to accommodate easily installing future heat pump.

Pool Price - $46,620

DECKING – Homeowner to do own pool deck at a later date. Blue Haven Pools will backfill trenches, pressure test plumbing, and grade only.


***ALL CONTRACTS SIGNED BEFORE AUGUST 1, 2018 WILL RECEIVE A $3K INCENTIVE CREDIT***
Buyer Required Items

• Water to fill
• Fence to Code
• Gas line/hook-up (if applicable)
• Soils Report (Stafford County - ~ $1800)

 

[tim5055]

Welcome to the TFP pool! :splash:

Some thoughts on items -

Go with a salt water chlorine generator.


DE Filter (Hayward DE6020) - Have you considered a sand filter?

Inline Chlorinator - You don't want this

Smart Pure Mineral Package - You don't want this

Smart Maintenance Package with telescoping pole, brush and water test kit = You are going to want a TF100 test kit and a K-1766 Taylor Salt Test. The test kits provided just won't cut it usually.

Initial Start-up, Pool Indoctrination, Pool School and Loop-loc complimentary measurement - Loop-loc measurements are always free. It's the covers that are expensive. If you can affored Loop-loc go with it.


Tiger Shark QC Robotic Vacuum – ADD $1,735 Get a robot later

25k BTU Heat Pump – ADD $4,725 (Hayward BHP21254T) - Even if you think you will want a heater later you may want to talk to the gas company and a plumber now to put the pipe in the ground while the land is torn up.

Change DE Filter to Cartridge – SAVE $350 - Have you considered a sand filter?

Ozone Generator – ADD $1500 - You don't want this

In addition, how are they doing the piping? I would want a home run pipe from the main drain to the equipment pad and a home run pipe from the skimmer drain to the equipment pad so you can isolate either of them should the need arise. You want valves on all pipes going to the pool.

 

[jimim]

Good info above!

just since I dealt with Anthony before my builder. Some things I learned at least from the Anthony in my area.

They shoot out a thinner shell then what I got from my builder. Floor and walls.

They tend to use the rebound from the floor and walls to build up the beam to save on gunite. U don’t want this. All rebound does out of the pool! Should not be used!

they use lighter rebar then what my builder used.

They like to tie skimmers and returns together. If u want homeruns they want to charge u but if u say u will sign they will include it.

They em love thier mineral system from Jandy in my area. I asked for just a salt cell. It was a no go.

If a plumbed or electrician has to come out more than 1 day cause I added or changed something it was like 700 extra a day.

Oh the pad. They didn’t want to shoot it with gunite. They wanted to use those plastic pads. If I wanted gunite I had to have it framed up and ready to shoot on gunite day.

Not that any any of this is a deal breaker but it was some of the stuff I learned here.

Also so what I liked about having a local builder was he was able to get a hold of easier. Meaning if I needed something no phone calls or texts or emails to his person or this. I just got in my car drove to his shop and met up with him.

Good luck. Everyone here is here to help you guys! This place made the whole process so much easier. It’s amazing what I have learned here!

 

[kimkats]

Good personal in put Jim! Thanks!

Kim

 

[Gorilla83]

We are using A&S now. We chose to upgrade shell thickness to 8" and 1/2" rebar all around for a relatively small cost. We also upgraded returns to home runs and added floor returns as well. Equipment - we switched to all pentair equipment. Price wise they were competitive although we did not get a quote from BH but we did 7 other PBs. They hooked us up with a really good landscaper who is doing our retaining wall, paver decking, waterfall, and plantings.

Scheduling/availability of subs has been a challenge over the past few weeks but in fairness seems to be the same for all PBs around here recently.

As for the details of your build:
-100% go salt water, agree with others there
-Consider natural gas heater vs. heat pump if you have it available and want to extend the season
-Do you want a light in the sunshelf?
-We're also adding an autofill to add water to the pool, cost wasn't too bad....something to consider

 

[B.A.]

Thanks to all so far!

Tim
- I was tracking on the no ozone, from the forum. Think they have to put that in the "options" for BH since they're pushing it so hard. We will NOT go down that road.

- I should have clarified, we do plan to do a SWG. Just not sure if it will be with the PB or the local pool place. Is the Jandy SWG a better product than Hayward.

- We will purchase the Taylor kits, the loop loc, and robot seperate from the PB.

- Gas is not an option for us. Both quotes included a heavy up electrical for the Heat Pump. Big question is Hayward (BH) or Aquacal (Either A&S or our local pool place)

- We knew the mineral package was not super helpful, but we were not tracking on the inline chlorinator being an issue. Any specific reason? I can search if its a common problem.

- I will insist on the plumbing recommendations. Home Runs for drain and skimmer. As well as the valves.

Jim/Gorilla:

You are confirming my fears. If we go down that route we will insist on the changes ya'll made. I will also add it to my list for whichever PB we choose. We will delay a little longer to see if either of the local places get back to us.

I will also ask the wife if she wants a light on the shelf.
I had not considered an autofill. We were going to add a spigot out near the deck so we don't have a long hose run.

All,

Guess I should have asked if anyone has had a success with a builder in the northern Virginia area servicing Stafford? JW Contracting and Lewis Aquatech didn't even return our calls.

Thanks again, this forum has been awesome.

 

[jimim]

We are using A&S now. We chose to upgrade shell thickness to 8" and 1/2" rebar all around for a relatively small cost. We also upgraded returns to home runs and added floor returns as well. Equipment - we switched to all pentair equipment. Price wise they were competitive although we did not get a quote from BH but we did 7 other PBs. They hooked us up with a really good landscaper who is doing our retaining wall, paver decking, retraining wall, and plantings.

Scheduling/availability of subs has been a challenge over the past few weeks but in fairness seems to be the same for all PBs around here recently.

As for the details of your build:
-100% go salt water, agree with others there
-Consider natural gas heater vs. heat pump if you have it available and want to extend the season
-Do you want a light in the sunshelf?
-We're also adding an autofill to add water to the pool, cost wasn't too bad....something to consider

see now when I dealt with Anthony I asked for all the changes u did and all they would do is the line size and home runs. Even if I paid more they would not do the thicker shell, rebar, or equipment. It was take it or leave it. They didn’t want to change shell rebar or gunite cause they said thier shells are engeneered to be just as strong as onexwith thicker shell and rebar.

So so you deff had more flexibility with them then I did. Maybe it was because they were 1.5 hrs away from my house. I don’t know.

 

[PoolGate]

Have you considered automation? Have you looked at any water features like sheer descents or waterfalls? Automation is very nice and if you go this route, you should get the same maker for all of your equipment.

I would suggest a cartridge filter. Personal choice and I have used cartridge and DE and it is so much less mess with cartridge.

 

[Gorilla83]

see now when I dealt with Anthony I asked for all the changes u did and all they would do is the line size and home runs. Even if I paid more they would not do the thicker shell, rebar, or equipment. It was take it or leave it. They didn’t want to change shell rebar or gunite cause they said thier shells are engeneered to be just as strong as onexwith thicker shell and rebar.

So so you deff had more flexibility with them then I did. Maybe it was because they were 1.5 hrs away from my house. I don’t know.

Seems like it depends completely on the sales guy and how much work they're willing to put in to modify their standard package. If I had to take it or leave it I definitely would have gone with another PB - it helps that he REALLY wanted to make the sale at month end.

Thanks to all so far!

- I should have clarified, we do plan to do a SWG. Just not sure if it will be with the PB or the local pool place. Is the Jandy SWG a better product than Hayward.

Jim/Gorilla:

You are confirming my fears. If we go down that route we will insist on the changes ya'll made. I will also add it to my list for whichever PB we choose. We will delay a little longer to see if either of the local places get back to us.

I will also ask the wife if she wants a light on the shelf.
I had not considered an autofill. We were going to add a spigot out near the deck so we don't have a long hose run.

All,

Guess I should have asked if anyone has had a success with a builder in the northern Virginia area servicing Stafford? JW Contracting and Lewis Aquatech didn't even return our calls.

Thanks again, this forum has been awesome.

Firstly, I wouldn't hesitate to negotiate with A&S as well to level the playing field. Especially since it's right at month end you may be able to work some decent pricing.

Hayward makes some really nice gear as well - I'd have no problem using their stuff, and I'd prefer them over Jandy personally. I've played with their automation which seems nice and their salt setup is pretty sweet as well.

As far as the heat pump many of the reputable PBs around here use Aquacal but if I were going all Hayward I'd probably stick with all matching gear if they're offering to extend the warranty for sticking with the same brand. If I weren't going nat gas (we're using Raypak) I would have been fine with the Aquacal.

 

[tim5055]

- We will purchase the Taylor kits, the loop loc, and robot seperate from the PB.

- Gas is not an option for us. Both quotes included a heavy up electrical for the Heat Pump. Big question is Hayward (BH) or Aquacal (Either A&S or our local pool place)

- We knew the mineral package was not super helpful, but we were not tracking on the inline chlorinator being an issue. Any specific reason? I can search if its a common problem.

- I will insist on the plumbing recommendations. Home Runs for drain and skimmer. As well as the valves.

Thinking about your quote, how quickly will the deck be built? The Loop-loc secures to the deck 2 - 3 feet outside the pool. Just something to add to your list of stuff to think about.

I'll leave the heater question to someone who actually has one.

An "inline chlorinator" is also known as an erosion feeder. You load 3" tabs into it and the pool water flowing through adds chlorine to the pool. We really are not against their use if you want it as a backup. We are against their uncontrolled use. The pool store tells you that they are the easiest way to get chlorine in your pool. They are. But, they don't tell you (or really don't understand) that the 3" tabs also add CYA (also known as stabilizer or conditioner) to your pool. Others here can give you the scientific details if you want, but lets just say CYA locks the ability of chlorine to sanitize. The more CYA you have the more chlorine you need to keep in the pool to keep algae at bay.

While talking about chlorine understand, chlorine is chlorine is chlorine. The chlorine in bleach is the same chlorine in the 3" tabs and is the same chlorine that is produced by a salt water chlorine generator. They are just different methods of adding the chlorine to you pool water. But, you also need to understand that in it's natural state, chlorine is a gas. Many large commercial pools actually use gas injection systems to chlorinate their pools. Now, to change chlorine into something we can use at home it needs to be bound to something to turn it into a solid. The "somethings" that are commonly used are stabilizer (also known as CYA), calcium, lithium, or --- get this water. All of these add a little salt to your water, but they add something else. Cal-Hypo add calcium, Tri-Chlor and Di-Chlor (tabs and most granules) add stabilizer, Lithium hypochlorite adds lithium and liquid chlorine adds - water. This is whay we like the SWCG, it produces the chlorine on site and makes it easy, while not adding this extra stuff to the water.

So, TFP is not "against" anything - it's "for" knowledge. The knowledge is condensed in the Pool School link at the top of every page.

How much Pool School have you read? Start with these:
ABCs of Water Chemistry
Recommended Pool Chemicals
How to Chlorinate Your Pool
Have you had time to read any of these?

 

[jimim]

So u might not be hearing back from local builders now cause they r swamped. I know my builder is in no call back for this point for the season. I know when I first called him I said right off the bat next season and he was very happy about that. Lol

i would try both locals if they are good and trycthst route. I mean we r moving towards later in season right now for us that close cause of winter.

Im just thinking out loud.

 

[Tflood123]

Where in northern va are you? I am in stafford and getting designs and estimates now. Custom thats gonna be about 360 sq ft.

 

[B.A.]

Wanted to give everyone an update. We signed with BH about a week ago. I went through all of the concerns we had based on the info we got here.

Blue Haven now only uses #4 rebar and all schedule 40 plumbing, too include home runs for skimmers and returns in our area. Valves will be included at all equipment.

We went to 6.5 deep with no extra charge. Ended up with an average 15x30 with widest measuring 17 and length 32.

We left the inline chlorinator in place as it only saved $150 and a couple people mentioned it might be useful at the end of the season? We put in the option to drop.

For the filter, we went with their sand/glass but can swap to DE for no charge if we want.

The big questions we have now are;

Which Robot Cleaner and where to buy?

Thinking of the Circu Pool SWG, unless another is recommended? (waiting on model until we get the final volume of pool)

QuartzScape for $3,865? (only plan to be in the house for 8-10yrs)

Hayward 125k BTU Heat Pump for $4,725 from Blue Haven (Hayward BHP21254T) or source myself, or another brand? Aquacal? Trane? We paid to have the correct wiring run in the negotiated pool price. Gas is not an option.

Decking - Considering Eagle Bay pavers - 450sq ft - Do we need to have the edge chalked or is the polymeric sand fine? Thoughts on pavers in general?

Pool cover - is loop loc the best option? We live in the norther Virginia area. We occasionally do get some decent snowfall. Do I buy the cover from a local place or online? The hybrid solid/mesh safety covers intrigued me, but I don't know what I don't know. I grew up in Florida with a pool... Closing wasn't really a thing we worried about...

Sure I'm going to have more questions... But thanks in advance!

 

[tim5055]

Valves will be included at all equipment.

You want valves on all lines coming from the pool, not just at the equipment. Any home run pipe from the pool should have a valve so you can turn that single pipe off.

Lets say 2 skimmers and a main drain. If you only have a valve at teh controlling equipment (the pump) all three of these would be closed together. At times you need to isolate individual items. If you want to drain below the skimmers then you shut them off and pull from the main drain. Problem with one skimmer, you can just turn it off.

You don't ever have to turn one off, but the more valves the better.

 

[bmoreswim]

My cover choices would be LoopLoc or Merlin’s SmartMesh. They are equivalent. I’d just get quotes from local folks and whichever brand they use and is cheaper I’d do that. You can install yourself and it’s not that hard but it was one I just wrote a check for.

I’m fairly certain when you read LoopLoc’s promotional material that it isn’t being compared to the Merlin SmartMesh but to either their DuraMesh which is different or other folk’s products.

A mesh dense mesh cover is heavy enough that you have to use a hand truck to move it. I wouldn’t want to move a solid cover. I install and uninstall it myself, with maybe a youth assistant.