New build - Katy, TX (near Houston)

[Dirk]

Good call on checking that edge with a level, Kim! There was a guy here that got his pool all finished and filled, only to discover when they turned on the waterfall for the first time that it wasn't level, and water was dumping out on one side more than the other. Best to check for those kinds of things during construction, before the water is in the pool, when the fix would be a lot easier if something is askew. Especially when throwing a level on the tile is such a simple thing.

Here's some tricks for ya, as water is going to be a much harsher "critic" of level than any tool. First, sight down the edge of the level to make sure it is not twisted or warped. Place the level on the tile and observe the bubble. Then flip the level over, 180° vertically, and observe the bubble. It should be in the exact same place. Now rotate the level parallel to the ground, 180° horizontally, and observe the bubble. Then flip it vertically again. All four readings should be identical, which confirms the level is calibrated correctly and accurate. And, of course, the bubble should be dead center each time, confirming your tile is level. Check both walls. Then rotate the level 45°, with one end on one wall, the other end on the other wall, and check that the walls are level relative to each other. Do that test in several places along the walls.

If any of that is out of level, then water will not fall evenly across the entire edge. The "PB Fix" for walls out of level is to turn the pump RPMs up, causing the water in the spa to rise, which masks somewhat a shoddy tile job. At that point it's up to you to determine if that is acceptable or not. It wouldn't be to me, because that would require increased RPMs all the time to get the desired effect. Sometimes you might want your water falls to be subtle, and quieter, to set a mood. I would, anyway...

 

[jaymantx]

Here is an update..

Main PB called back. After hearing the situation, he says "Good thing you sent the plaster guys back. Let me talk to my partner to see what happened". PB's partner is in charge of the construction/subcontractors, and he himself is a subcontractor. Main PB is more on the sales side... Obviously, they are not talking...

30 minutes later PB's partner calls back. He apologized for the mess up. He fessed up and said he knows everything about pool building, except plasters... I called BS on that, but I wanted to focus on how he is going to fix the issue, so my pool doesn't get delayed anymore. I kept calm tone of voice, but I am sure he sensed my irritation. He said he is a close friend with the owner of Modern Methods, and see if he could pull some strings to get the plaster done this week. He calls back 30 minutes later and informs me that "Pebble Tec" plaster will be done by Modern Methods this week as early as tomorrow... I'll believe it when I see it...

I want to demand some sort of compensation for all the "inspector" jobs I had to do on behalf of them... UGH.

I really want to rip him a new one, but I want to keep the relationship in good standing for possible future warranty services...

 

[kimkats]

Here you need this!!!!

 

[ctrav]

Hey that’s all good. Stay positive and if it gets done before Friday with the other company then great!

 

[jaymantx]

Thanks Kim and Dirk for your feedback on spillway. Individual tiles do have some height differences, but generally leveling looks OK. During the tile installation, I saw the tiler using a yard stick leveler, so I figured he knew what he was doing, so I didn't check his work.

This level is all I got. What do you guys think? Like Dirk mentioned, minor variation in level could be overcome by normal return water flow. But then again, I do not know what the "normal" RPM for my VS pump is going to be... So, this is going to be a big unknown until we turn on the pump....

[

 

[Ironman92]

Your pool looks fantastic.

I'm in Katy also and Modern Methods did my pebble. They did a great job for me. I stayed home that day to watch and make sure they had everything correct. A lot of the crews here work on 2 pools a day and they load up plaster, quartz and pebble in the morning, so it is not uncommon to see mix-ups. The morning crews are fresh and that is why my PB only schedules for the morning.

I also went to Shipley's for some donuts and kolaches for the crew that morning. Bribery works well

As for your VSP, your pool is similar to mine. I usually run the VSP at 1500 RPM (around 191 Watts ) during the day to get good circulation and the water barely comes over the spillway of the spa. In the evening, it kicks up to 2350 RPM (835 Watts) and water is flowing over freely.

 

[jaymantx]

Yeah I definitely need some beer...

Here you need this!!!!

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Thanks for the encouragement. I'm trying my best to stay positive..

Hey that’s all good. Stay positive and if it gets done before Friday with the other company then great!

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Yeah originally Modern Methods was supposed to do my gunite as well, but scheduling conflict made my PB change the gunite company. +1 food bribes.. LOL When I'm in town workers get pizzas, McD's, popsicles and ice creams.. LOL

Thanks for the pump RPM reference! Good place to start.

Your pool looks fantastic.

I'm in Katy also and Modern Methods did my pebble. They did a great job for me. I stayed home that day to watch and make sure they had everything correct. A lot of the crews here work on 2 pools a day and they load up plaster, quartz and pebble in the morning, so it is not uncommon to see mix-ups. The morning crews are fresh and that is why my PB only schedules for the morning.

I also went to Shipley's for some donuts and kolaches for the crew that morning. Bribery works well

As for your VSP, your pool is similar to mine. I usually run the VSP at 1500 RPM (around 191 Watts ) during the day to get good circulation and the water barely comes over the spillway of the spa. In the evening, it kicks up to 2350 RPM (835 Watts) and water is flowing over freely.

 

[Poolbella]

I’m sorry that happened to you today, but appreciative of the heads up about Modern Methods (I’m in south Katy). Hopefully it will get sorted out very quickly.

 

[kimkats]

PRETTY! Oh so much BLING!!!!

Oh wait I was supposed to be looking at the level.......................sorry LOL I sure do see a bubble in the middle so...............lets see what the water says when the pump gets started AFTER the correct plaster gets there gurrrrrrrr (Man am I glad you were home!!!)

Kim

 

[Dirk]

Sorry to say... The testing you did with that particular level won't tell you a thing about how the water will spill over the entire length of tiles, even less about whether one wall will spill before the other. You need a level that spans the entire length of tile, and even longer if you want to check one wall against the other. You can extend a level by placing it on a longer piece of material, but the trick to that is finding a long piece of material that is perfectly straight. Alternatives to that are laser levels and water levels. Depending on how enthusiastic you are about performing this check, you could build yourself a very accurate tool that could do the job with a 20' piece of 1/2" clear plastic hose, for eight bucks, like this.

I'm not sure what a "yard stick leveler" is, but if you're talking about a 3' level, that's not encouraging. You can't properly build a 6' or 8' wall with a 3' level. If you've ever seen a skilled mason build a brick wall, they use a level string (or wire) as a guide (there are probably more modern methods, but the string is tried and true). Did you see a string involved in the process? Like this:



Sorry, hopefully this is much about nothing. Just providing info. Do with it what you will...

 

[jaymantx]

Thanks for the info, and you are totally right. I saw wires being used for building these spillway walls during the gunite shooting. I did see a long and thin clear hose laying around the pool, but I am not sure if it was used for leveling the spillway...

Sorry to say... The testing you did with that particular level won't tell you a thing about how the water will spill over the entire length of tiles, even less about whether one wall will spill before the other. You need a level that spans the entire length of tile, and even longer if you want to check one wall against the other. You can extend a level by placing it on a longer piece of material, but the trick to that is finding a long piece of material that is perfectly straight. Alternatives to that are laser levels and water levels. Depending on how enthusiastic you are about performing this check, you could build yourself a very accurate tool that could do the job with a 20' piece of 1/2" clear plastic hose, for eight bucks, like this.

I'm not sure what a "yard stick leveler" is, but if you're talking about a 3' level, that's not encouraging. You can't properly build a 6' or 8' wall with a 3' level. If you've ever seen a skilled mason build a brick wall, they use a level string (or wire) as a guide (there are probably more modern methods, but the string is tried and true). Did you see a string involved in the process? Like this:

View attachment 83503

Sorry, hopefully this is much about nothing. Just providing info. Do with it what you will...

 

[jaymantx]

When I sat in the spa and looked out the spillway, very slight wavy edges were noticeable. if plaster company doesn't show up tomorrow, I am tempted to just fill up the spa and test it out... LOL

PRETTY! Oh so much BLING!!!!

Oh wait I was supposed to be looking at the level.......................sorry LOL I sure do see a bubble in the middle so...............lets see what the water says when the pump gets started AFTER the correct plaster gets there gurrrrrrrr (Man am I glad you were home!!!)

Kim

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I feel like I am being used as a guinea pig for training... That PB's partner is being trained by the main PB, since he used to be only a subcontractor. Too sloppy... UGH...

I’m sorry that happened to you today, but appreciative of the heads up about Modern Methods (I’m in south Katy). Hopefully it will get sorted out very quickly.

 

[Dirk]

If you saw wires, that's a good sign! It's possible the tube was used as a water level to set the wires. That'd be an excellent way to do that. Filling the spa probably has all kinds of repercussions (bad ones!), but that would certainly be the ultimate test!! Not endorsing, just to be clear. But you'd definitely gain some notoriety here if you tried it!!

I'm just pickin' now, I'm sure it'll be fine. Good luck with the plastering. If nothing else, you're getting a sense that keeping an eye on things, and not trusting anybody 100% (especially Dirk!!), is not out of line when it comes to pool building...

 

[kimkats]

I have a saying I use in all parts of my life "Trust yet verify". It has served me well!

 

[riley00dog]

Good pick up on the plaster! The mind boggles at what happens when you’re not paying attention or present. Having to check every single thing that happens on a build is the most stressful part I have found. How hard is to just provide what is in the contract?! Fingers crossed your proper pebble is installed soon.

 

[jimim]

That tube was a water level. Old school. Very very very accurate. I learned how to use it when they shot my pool.

Steing method works perfect. Easy to do. Get someone else to help u. It’s how we level and square a lot of jobs we do. It’s the only thing my mason carries with him besides his brick ruler. It works. Just make sure u pull it wicked tight and snap it so you know u aren’t hung up on a little edge.

 

[Dirk]

I have a very vague recollection about how you snap the wire, and the resulting tone (musical note) it produces, is part of the process, to assure you have the wire tight enough...

 

[jaymantx]

I experienced fair share of commercial/home constructions, and gut out renovations even though I am not in the industry. I got burned a few times... I mean straight up bait and switch stuff... Through those experiences I think I grew enough layer of skin to be blunt and direct... LOL

Kim, I also have a similar motto, but mine is "Don't trust until verified"... LOL

If you saw wires, that's a good sign! It's possible the tube was used as a water level to set the wires. That'd be an excellent way to do that. Filling the spa probably has all kinds of repercussions (bad ones!), but that would certainly be the ultimate test!! Not endorsing, just to be clear. But you'd definitely gain some notoriety here if you tried it!!

I'm just pickin' now, I'm sure it'll be fine. Good luck with the plastering. If nothing else, you're getting a sense that keeping an eye on things, and not trusting anybody 100% (especially Dirk!!), is not out of line when it comes to pool building...

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It is very tiring... Every time I am involved with some sort of construction, I wonder if I have bad lucks with picking construction companies or contractors...

Good pick up on the plaster! The mind boggles at what happens when you’re not paying attention or present. Having to check every single thing that happens on a build is the most stressful part I have found. How hard is to just provide what is in the contract?! Fingers crossed your proper pebble is installed soon.

 

[jimim]

its funny this came up today about lines. we had to wet set some retaining wall block tonight and the concrete pour they sit on slopes in towards the drain. we used a mason line with a line level attached to it to get our level line to set the block on the mud. it just works so nice. you can cover a very long run if need be as long as you set the line tight enough. throw the line level on the sting and do ur think. that set our height for the block level and we just set a chalk line in the front to know the block positioning on the concrete. check as we go with a torpedo level for front to back and a 4 foot level for left to right. using the line with line level allows us to just follow that line as we go.

jim

 

[Dirk]

its funny this came up today about lines. we had to wet set some retaining wall block tonight and the concrete pour they sit on slopes in towards the drain. we used a mason line with a line level attached to it to get our level line to set the block on the mud. it just works so nice. you can cover a very long run if need be as long as you set the line tight enough. throw the line level on the sting and do ur think. that set our height for the block level and we just set a chalk line in the front to know the block positioning on the concrete. check as we go with a torpedo level for front to back and a 4 foot level for left to right. using the line with line level allows us to just follow that line as we go.

jim

Just to supplement, in terms of the OP's situation: a string level is somewhat dependent on the string and the very slight dip in it (no matter how tight it is), how it sits on the string, how calibrated it is, etc. Plenty good enough for a block wall, for sure. But possibly iffy when setting an infinity edge for a pool. You won't see a bit of a cant in a block wall, probably not even a lot. But it'll jump right out at you if an infinity wall is off, because all the water will be pouring off one side, or just in the middle or whatever. Nothing beats a wire tuned up tight, leveled with a water level, because a water level never lies!

And we're talking about construction techniques. The OP doesn't actually need a string or wire at all, to check his walls. Just the plastic tube (the water level). Fill it with water and hold one end of the tube at one end of one of the walls, then march the other end of the tube along both walls, and check the level that way. Would only take a few minutes after he got the hang of it...