New Build in Rosharon (south of Houston)

[bpcunning]

I've been trying to read up on everything I can on this forum regarding pool construction, and am about to sign a contract with a local PB who has been highly recommended by neighbors and coworkers. I'd appreciate any guidance or feedback on our current plan, and hope to post updates here along the way given the great support I've seen in so many threads.

At the advice of many and from a few personal experiences, we will be going with a salt system, even though the builder has softly pushed back on it (with concern for stone erosion) they will do it as a no-cost alternative to the chlorinator + UV/ozone. Specs as quoted:
CUSTOM POOL PACKAGE INCLUDES: (33 1⁄2’ x 16’, 3 1⁄2' - 5 1⁄2 depth, 475 Sq. Ft. Surface Area, 16,500 Gallons, Large Sunshelf W/3 - Bubblers, 20' Benches)
1. 90’ PERIMETER POOL, 6’ MAX DEPTH W/ 1 1⁄4” EASED EDGE TRAVERTINE COPING & BASIC 6” WATER LINE TILE (
2. 450 SQ/FT. SPRAY DECK DECKING, 3/8” REBAR 16” O.C.
3. 9-11 RETURN LINES (VARIATION IN HEIGHT) & 3 BUBBLERS
4. 2 SKIMMERS with 2” SUCTION LINES ON 45* ANGLES
5. 1 ANTI-VORTEX MAIN DRAIN with 2” SUCTION LINES ON 45 ANGLES
6. STEEL DETAIL: 3/8” REBAR 8” O.C., 4” O.C. ON ALL DEPTH TRANSITIONS GREATER THAN 5’ IN DEPTH, 4 - #4, 1⁄2” REBAR ON BOND BEAM
7. GUNITE SHELL: 7.1 (SACKS/SAND) RATIO
8. POOL EQUIPMENT PAD, SHOT with GUNITE & STEEL REINFORCEMENT
9. ALL ELECTRICAL RUNS INCLUDED
10. ELECTRICAL SUB PANEL (if needed is $400 additional)
11. OUTDOOR LIGHT AT EQUIPMENT PAD (homeowner to provide light bulbs)
12. HAYWARD TRISTAR VARIABLE SPEED EE PUMP
13. HAYWARD C 7030 CARTRIDGE FILTER
14. HAYWARD UNIVERSAL LED POOL LIGHT
15. OMNI CONTROL SYSTEM
16. HAYWARD 650 ROBOTIC POOL CLEANER w/ GFCI OUTLET
17. SEWER LINE (per city requirements)
18. AUTOFILL / OVERFLOW SYSTEM
19. CMP IN LINE CHLORINATOR & OZONE/UV SYSTEM or AQUA RITE SALT SYSTEM
20. PLASTER FINISHES; WET EDGE: QUARTZ POLAR WHITE or MARTINIQUE / SIGNATURE MATRIX PEBBLE: SALT & PEPPER, CRYSTAL BLUE or COASTAL BLUE (FREE UPGRADE)
21. START UP KIT INCLUDING: NET, BRUSH, POLE, TEST KIT, HOSE AND VACUUM ATTACHMENT
CUSTOM SPA PACKAGE INCLUDES:
1. 7 1⁄2’ ROUND SPA w/ 18” BEAM, RAISED 12”, 3’ MAX DEPTH W/ 1 1⁄4” EASED EDGE TRAVERTINE COPING, SPLITFACE STONE OR 6” BASIC TILE SPA SURROUND AND 6” BASIC WATER LINE TILE
2. 6’ NEGATIVE EDGE SPILLWAY
3. 8 HAYWARD MASSAGE JETS w/ PULSE-FLO & ADJUSTA-FLO HEADS
4. 1 ANTI-VORTEX MAIN DRAIN with 2 1/2” SUCTION LINES ON 45* ANGLES
5. HAYWARD H-SERIES 500,000 LOW NOX HEATER (60’ gas run included)
6. HAYWARD 1.5 HP AIR BLOWER
7. HAYWARD UNIVERSAL LED SPA LIGHT
8. PLASTER FINISH; SAME PLASTER AS THE POOL
A. SIGNATURE SPA: BULLNOSE BEAM ON INSIDE OF SPA WITH GLASS TILE AND GLASS BEADS
____ ____
OPTIONS:
6” RAISED BEAM WALL; (Includes Splitface Stone Facing / Spray Deck Finish on Back) ADD 16’ WALL
12” RAISED BEAM WALL; (Includes Splitface Stone Facing / Spray Deck Finish on Back) ADD 14’ WALL
GREAT AMERICAN WATERFALL SHEERS 2 @24”
ADDITIONAL TRISTAR EE PUMPS, VARIABLE SPEED; (Includes all Plumbing & Electric Runs)
HAYWARD 320V LED ACCENT LIGHT; ADD 1 320V ACCENT LIGHT TO SHELF
SELECT FILL; ADD 1 LOAD OF SELECT FILL
AREA DRAIN; ADD 160’ OF 4” AREA DRAINS

DECKING OPTIONS (All Decking includes 3/8” Rebar); ADD 20’ OF TURNDOWN ON RAISED DECK AREA
TOE/TRIM TILE; (Includes Tile from the Basic Waterline Tile Selection and Installation)

 

[Jimrahbe]

9-11 RETURN LINES

bp,

Does that mean 9 to 11 return lines?

Most pools have 3 to 5.. More sounds good except when you have 11 places for water to return to the pool, you'd never get any pressure, it would just almost dribble out of the return eyeballs. Maybe they are counting all the spa returns and water fall etc.

You might ask your PB to detail what they actually are.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[YippeeSkippy]

Hello! Welcome to TFP... good move getting TFP to look over the build specs. :goodmove:

Ask for the Skimmers to be run independently so if one has a clog the other is still up and running. All lines ideally.
Make sure the salt cell is sized at least 2x the pool's volume in gallons.
Get the largest cartridge filter possible.... means fewer times cleaning.

Otherwise it looks wonderful to me

Maddie

 

[pjt]

I like that you have a swim lane as well as several seating locations.

we will be going with a salt system, even though the builder has softly pushed back on it (with concern for stone erosion) they will do it as a no-cost alternative to the chlorinator + UV/ozone.

That's a big win.

3 1⁄2' - 5 1⁄2 depth

I'd suggest increasing the depth of your shallow end to 4'.

5.5' is an inconvenient depth because it's too deep for people to stand. I would suggest 5' or commit to a true deep end.

1 ANTI-VORTEX MAIN DRAIN with 2” SUCTION LINES ON 45 ANGLES

A main drain is optional.

HAYWARD UNIVERSAL LED POOL LIGHT

You'll want more than one light. Make sure they face away from the house/main sitting area. On the sketch, there's shadows/darkness in the shallow end and by the steps.

START UP KIT INCLUDING: NET, BRUSH, POLE, TEST KIT, HOSE AND VACUUM ATTACHMENT

You'll need a pole, brush, and net. With a robot, you won't need the hose and vacuum. Skip the test kit unless it's a K-2006C.

 

[HermanTX]

Verify that the PB or the subcontractor for plaster is an authorized installer for Wet Edge. You can call Wet Edge or go their website. This insures the work is under warranty by Wet Edge mfg.

The pool in the graphic does look a little dark with 1 light. If you add any lights - they should be on the side nearest the sitting area facing away.

Appears the PB is putting in deep returns as well as standard returns (about 18 inches below waterline). Best to verify because it does sound like a lot of returns as it shows additional 8 jets in the spa.

I have 5.5 ft max depth and it is enjoyable. I also have 3.5 ft for about 1 linear foot as it transitions to 4 ft. From my steps. So don‘t have a lot of 3.5ft as it is too shallow

did you get a comparative bid from a 2nd PB?

 

[bpcunning]

Thanks for all the quick feedback.

• Returns

It did seem like a lot of returns. They said several would be deep which would improve circulation, and that with the variable speed pumps there would still be sufficient flow. I also asked about having 3 bubblers and getting and enough flow/function out of them, but this is their typical return scheme.

• Depth

I’ve gone back and forth on depths. I’m over 6’ tall, and my boys will be there before I know it. My uncles pool has a 6’ deep end that I’m about the only person who can touch, but I also touch (softly) with a hefty jump, so we’re ok with the 5.5’ deep end. 3.5’ on the shallow I’m less sure of, but also less concerned with I guess. I’m considering 4’ as we have plenty of perimeter benches for shallower access, something that they said we would review and could adjust/confirm when excavation is scheduled.

• Lights

They included the one light on the deep end, and at the suggestion of my boss we asked about an additional light near the steps. I was amazed at the cost though ($1600) and they offered the 320 as a smaller/cheaper option ($825), and they put it on the tanning deck. Does this make sense there or would it be better lower and by the steps? They cautioned against opposing lights or worrying about glare and added reflections. Of note, the bubblers are not lit, it just looks like that on the render for some reason (though that would be nice, I expect that would cost even more).

• Wet Edge

The contract said 10 or 15 year warranty on plaster, but I will follow up on that.

• Skimmer/return plumbing

Is it typical to plumb independently, or is that something that would need to be specified? I can definitely see a benefit to it though.

• Salt and filter size

They’ve been consistently saying they use the largest size or capability on their equipment, but I haven’t yet received a model number or spec on the salt cell. Does the 7030 filter tell you anything about sizing?

• Cost competitive

This build comes in just under $80k, which I’m comfortable with. A friend just went with the same builder after shopping around for several months and had nothing but positive feedback.

 

[Mcow]

This looks like a good design and sounds like a good builder always nice to be able to get feedback from people you actually know. I am way more familiar with Pentair equipment than Hayward but I would 100% do at least two lights. You can actually see in the rendering the dead spot by the steps and in real life this will probably be worst especially since it will be where the steps are. I would look at putting one under the steps essentially. I went back and forth on lighted bubbler and actually choose to not have one but by accident our PB installed it and I have to say I like it. I would potentially only do one bubbler with a light if you choose to. I actually think the three bubbles on your ledge is overkill we had a similar size one on our last pool with just one bubbler. There are people here with way more knowledge on pumps than me but it seems crazy to me it can run that many returns, 3 bubbles and 2 sheer decents on one pump.

Only other thing I would comment on is the depth. Sounds like you may have teenagers and with that raised wall they will inevitable want to jump in. We had 5'6" on our last pool and it made me nervous as heck watching the kids jump in (we also had a raised wall). Also since you are in Texas extra depth helps keep the water cooler. Just food for thought you need to do what you think will be best for your family's use. The depth was one big regret we had with our last pool we went 7' deep with our new pool.

Pic of new pool with bubbler light for reference.

 

[.ben]

My pool built this year is about the same size with many of the same design elements and equipment. If interested, my post is here.

Are you doing rolled edge on the spa? Did not see it listed but the rendering looks to show a rolled edge ( I recommend!).
Salt cell - Ask for the T-15 (a.k.a. TCELL940), rated for 40,000 gal.
Filter - Hayward lists the C7030 as 725 sqft which is surprisingly larger than my 525 sqft, because I feel that mine is already quite large. (Larger lets you go longer between cleaning).

 

[bpcunning]

The extra pump in the options is for all the water features (bubblers and sheers), perhaps that might help to interpret the number of returns and sufficient flow. I agree that 3 bubblers is more than necessary, but that’s what they include.

 

[bpcunning]

My pool built this year is about the same size with many of the same design elements and equipment. If interested, my post is here.

Are you doing rolled edge on the spa? Did not see it listed but the rendering looks to show a rolled edge ( I recommend!).
Salt cell - Ask for the T-15 (a.k.a. TCELL940), rated for 40,000 gal.
Filter - Hayward lists the C7030 as 725 sqft which is surprisingly larger than my 525 sqft, because I feel that mine is already quite large. (Larger lets you go longer between cleaning).

Yes we are doing the rolled edge. I’m quite excited about that and the glass finish in the spa.

 

[Bvacchiano]

Have you seen Quartz finishes in person? We initially thought the quartz was a great deal until we saw some pools in person. Very blotchy with lots of mottling. Wet Edge has great products.

 

[guinness]

With a robot, you won't need the hose and vacuum.

Robots can fail and need repair so it's useful to have a backup around.

 

[pjt]

Robots can fail and need repair so it's useful to have a backup around.

I would buy one only if necessary. They're widely available. I'd rather not have unused junk cluttering up my garage.

 

[bpcunning]

Have you seen Quartz finishes in person? We initially thought the quartz was a great deal until we saw some pools in person. Very blotchy with lots of mottling. Wet Edge has great products.

We browsed their samples and liked the feel and look of the Martinique, which he said was their most popular. It’s hard to picture how it will look with varying depths of water, but we also don’t have to decide on any material or color selections yet. I saw a thread comparing different finishes and need to go review that soon.

I would buy one only if necessary. They're widely available. I'd rather not have unused junk cluttering up my garage.

My understanding is the cleaning/start up kit is just part of their package. It’s not an itemized cost. I don’t think I’ve ever used a pool vacuum, the uncle’s pool has a robot and I just take it out/put it in when we go over there.

 

[HermanTX]

The extra pump in the options is for all the water features (bubblers and sheers), perhaps that might help to interpret the number of returns and sufficient flow. I agree that 3 bubblers is more than necessary, but that’s what they include.

If you wish to run any water feature when you are in Spa Mode, then you require that second pump - water feature pump - to provide that capability. This is because the suction for your water features are from the pool and their return is to the pool. When in Spa Mode - the main pump has suction from the spa and return to the spa so you cannot run a water feature in Spa Mode.

This is why it is important to think through what you want to operate and in which mode.

Similarly with lights - this is more for your automation system - you can have all pool lights turn on at once or you can have individual control - the latter may require your automation system to be modified to do that.

 

[.ben]

15. OMNI CONTROL SYSTEM

I would verify that you are getting Hayward OmniLogic automation which is Hayward's premier automation.

 

[guinness]

I would verify that you are getting Hayward OmniLogic automation which is Hayward's premier automation.

The OmniPL is also a decent system depending on your needs - the remotely mounted touchscreen is a nice feature.

 

[bpcunning]

Well after a lengthy delay caused by the HOA not understanding the county permit requirements (or lack thereof for unincorporated areas), and me forgetting to sign the loan documents (... oops), we had our excavation last week, rebar the next day, and then yesterday the gunite crew did their thing. Just this afternoon the equipment was hauled over and I was told they would be out tomorrow to do the "long plumbing". So we went from a few weeks of sitting around to a whole lot of work done Friday-Friday. A couple progress pics are attached.

Also, while they only went with the Turbocell for 25k gallons (we'll be around 18k gallons total), it is the full OmniLogic system, and the rest of the equipment matches what they said it would be (7030 filter, VS 950 pumps, 500k Btu heater, etc). Is the 2:1 size rating on a SWCG something that is understood and should be expected, or is it more just for oversizing when possible to reduce wear and tear? Should there be much of a cost difference if I need to push back on getting the 40k?

 

[guinness]

Is the 2:1 size rating on a SWCG something that is understood and should be expected, or is it more just for oversizing when possible to reduce wear and tear?

The manufacturers tell you how much chlorine the cell can generate, for example from the Hayward Salt Chlorination FAQs webpage.

TurboCell model	Chlorine output per day	Maximum Pool Size
T-Cell-3	0.53 lbs/day	15,000 gallons
T-Cell-9	0.98 lbs/day	25,000 gallons
T-Cell-15	1.47 lbs/day	40,000 gallons

However that is based on running the SWCG at 100% output for the full day.

With a T-Cell-9 you will have to run your pump for about 11 hours a day with the cell at 100% to generate 3 ppm of FC.

With a T-Cell-15 you only need to run for 7.5 hours at 100% for the same 3 ppm of FC.

I'm sure @Newdude can give you more detail but that's the essence of it.

You also have to consider how hot and how much direct sunlight your pool gets during the summer.

Houston, TX No-Shade Pool Owners, how much FC loss

I’m losing 6 ppm per day. CYA is 60. Adding bleach at night to get to 11ppm; test next night, I’m at 5 ppm. Confirming I actually get to 11 after adding, so bleach is not weak. OCLT passes. Consensus seems to be loss of 3-4 per day is normal. Can anyone in similar climate with zero shade...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[HermanTX]

Is the 2:1 size rating on a SWCG something that is understood and should be expected, or is it more just for oversizing when possible to reduce wear and tear? Should there be much of a cost difference if I need to push back on getting the 40k?

The PB probably does not follow the 2x recommendation. As indicated, the larger SWCG would allow more flexibility for you to run your pump for different lengths of time at different % output. The difference in price based on wholesale is probably minor for the PB but what he may try to charge you for the "upgrade" could be something different. It is worth asking and see what he gives you.
You can research what the retail price is for both units, so you have some understanding of the potential fee the PB may ask for.