New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 3-25 update

Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 10-6 update

The suspense is unbearable, :silent: :scratch: I cant wait to hear "the rest of the story". :bounce: ::epds::
Hope all is going well,
John
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 10-6 update

Lershac said:
No I am too busy trying to dispose of the contractors body. Really I will post when circumstances change. All will be explained

Oh man...I knew it. I knew he pushed you too far. I just hope you were able to show restraint....or at least got retribution! :whip:

Hope you get it worked out soon...sorry...I'm being selfish because waiting for an update is driving me insane. :hammer:
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 10-6 update

So, today is the day I can continue my thread.

I am very sorry for stopping updating it, I had reasons which I will explain.

We left off with the concrete pour for the deck. I was very unhappy with my concrete guy Raymond (go back to page 10 and see explanation on that) and had hired a contractor named Louis
( who turned out to use raymond on a lot of his jobs ) to do the plaster, coping, waterline tile, and lay the travertine deck.

In a burst of insanity I came up with the idea to use the fact that Louis worked with Raymond alot and gave him a lot of work as leverage over Raymond the concrete guy, and let him oversee the concrete pour. Louis made good noises about that, and assured me he would be on site for the pour and would make sure Raymond did a good job and a complete job.

Well concrete pour day came, and even though I had the Louis coming to oversee Raymond, my gut told me to take the day off and come supervise and help. So I shuffled appointments and opened up my day. Everything was supposed to kick off at 8, so I was up early picking up stuff and puttering around. Called to check on the concrete (on schedule) and the pump truck (on schedule). I couldnt get ahold of Raymond to check on his crew. The stomach acid started.

8 am rolled around and even though the pour was scheduled for 8, and there was quite a bit of work to do before the pour (and I had asked him to show up early to get these things done that he was supposed to do prior but hadn't) raymond and crew had no appeared yet. Called the concrete and put them on hold... and called the pump truck company to make double sure they were coming (they were stuck in traffic due to a fatal accident on the interstate).

8:15 and Raymond arrived... with 2 guys. He was supposed to have 5 guys total... the others backed out on him. Great! He says he can still do the job no problem.

8:30 rolls around and the pump truck arrives. The foreman and his two guys start unloading hose and apologize for being late and explain what happened. Its ok... we just pushed things back a bit. They start unloading 10 foot sections of 4 inch pipe and hose. Uh oh, it was supposed to be 2 inch. That's a crucial difference because a 4 inch hose full of concrete is MUCH heavier than a 2 inch hose, and harder to move during the pour. I tell the foreman they brought the wrong hose, and he checks his ticket, and it specifies 4 inch. Call the office and talk to the dispatcher, whom I had scheduled the job with, and it turns out that I miscommunicated, or she mis-heard. Probably me, I had never rented a concrete pump before. Who cares, what can we do to fix it? Its a two hour round trip to pick up smaller hose.

I go talk to raymond... he starts complaining up a storm, how there is no way that can work. ok, I will pay the extra rental time to keep the truck on site and they can go get the hose. The truck foreman (who also owns part of the company... family business) says he is happy to go get it, but they do plenty of pours with a 4 inch hose, and in front of Raymond reminds him of a job the previous month they did where raymond worked on it... and they used a 4 inch hose. He also tells me since raymond is short handed they would be more than happy to lend a hand in all aspects of the pour. He is a straighforward, get-it-done sort of guy and tells me it can be done, no problem, its done all the time. The tricky part is to pump slow so the hose doesnt kick.

After a little tense interlude, Raymond says he thinks he can do it. So we proceed. I call in the concrete trucks.

They start pouring... Hey look who shows up! Its my hired supervisor, Louis! Who proceeds to stand around doing nothing and being on the phone for the next hour while the workers pour and finish the concrete.

About two hours into the pour Louis up and leaves, promising to be back in a half hour, he has a problem to go take care of. "Be right Back!"

Well the pour goes pretty well except for one mishap which will be a visual reminder of my bad decisions forever. I had asked Raymond how he was going to form up the slab around the drains, and he had said he would not use a form, but would just snap a line and level it by eye on the drains (it had to be 2" below the lip of the drains, but a little lower would not be too bad, we could just use more sand below the pavers... but too high and it wouldnt work) and he did that, and did it well. BUT and here is where my inexperience showed... drains are not forms. Even staked down, they bowed as the concrete was poured all on one side, pressing against them, into a slight "bow" from the weight of the concrete. They did the longest side of the deck first, and I was extremely unhappy with the bow. Louis showed back up and I pointed this out to him, and he said it wouldnt be a problem, once the other side was poured they could get them back into place. HUGE LIE. So on the other side of the deck I made them alternate back and forth filling up both sides at once and while they had to hustle mightily to get things done, that worked fine. Raymond actually did a fine job of just visually getting the elevation right by eye on the drains. He is a seriously muscular fellow, and the 4 inch line was heavy, but they got it moved around fine. Louis left again to go to another job and "be right back"

The pump truck guys true to their word, helped out tremendously, moving the line around, and pumped the concrete out very slow... and even Raymond remarked that pumping it out slower in greater volume worked better, because there was less splash and kicking of the line like would have been in a 2 inch. Louis showed back up and the guys finished the pour and the concrete trucks and the pump truck packed up and left. I paid the line pump helpers a little extra directly and they left happy. I was happy with the effort they had put out to make things go well.

Raymond and crew proceeded with the finishing of the concrete, and ripped up most of the forms as the concrete set up enough to do so. It looked ok, except for the slight bow in the channel drains on one side. But it was not too dramatic, and I was resigned to accepting it. I was happy with all of the job except that, and the poor professionality of Raymond and Louis.

Another flaw I discovered after a couple of days was that during the pour a couple of sections of drain had been kicked and separated from each other and a height difference at the joints of about 1/2 inch had developed with the concrete flowing under and around them, pushing them up. Ugh. I was super unhappy with that. Louis told me he would have Raymond come back out and fix that by sawcutting the concrete around the drain, removing the drain, busting out the concrete under the drain and repouring just that small amount. This turned out to be a lie as well. I never saw Raymond again after that day.

An interesting fact that revealed itself that day was that Louis reads these forums. He made several comments about all the work I put into the project, and asked questions relating to aspects of the project that he had never and could never have seen (pre-gunite shoot). I came out and asked him if he had seen my build online, and he said yes, and he was very complimentary of what I had accomplished. He even asked me to mention him and his company in my thread. At the time I was unaware of his more untrustworthy qualities, and told him as long as I was happy with everything I would be happy to, but if I was unhappy I would be putting that in there as well, I was just documenting my build, for the good and bad. Well true to my word, I am mentioning him in here from this point on. I will refrain from putting his last name in, as I do not want to be percieved as personally attacking him, but I am documenting my build, and he is a part of that.

More to come. I am long winded I am sorry, just grab some popcorn and a coke, and read on....

No pics of this part, sorry.
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

Judging from what we all knew this is probably about the best outcome that I could have expected. I was worried that you were jackhammering the whole pour...or were in court?
It is truly a shame that "so called" professionals would let things like this go. I assume they are using the lame excuse that it is your build and not theirs.
At least this is not a terrible situation and is something can be fixed .
I know you are frustrated but thanks for sharing all your trials and tribulations.
John.
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

So the pour for the deck was on a tuesday, and Louis told me his crew would be out Wednesday to lay the coping and start on the tile. They would plaster on Friday and get started on the deck on the weekend.

There was not a word of truth to any of it.

Wed rolled around and no show. I was busy with work, and called Louis late in the afternoon, and he told me they had a problem on another job and they would be out thursday. Unhappy but ok.

Thursday... no show. Call, They will be out tomorrow. I am frank with him on the phone, and ask him if this is how the whole project is going to go? Louis says no, no, they just have a really troublesome job. At this point Louis has half the agreed amount for the job. DUH a serious lapse in judgement on my part. I tell him that if they dont show friday, I will consider him to have abandoned the job. I tell him its not the time issue... its the fact that he is telling me one thing and doing another. I am a reasonable person... if things are not going to plan I am not going to freak out... just communicate with me and we can work something out. OK? He says ok, and apologizes profusely promising that he will have workers on site early friday morning.

That was one of those phone calls where I was really angry but really controlling myself. By the time it was over I was having trouble actually speaking I was so mad.

So friday, the contractor shows up! We are excited and relieved. We meet him and he turns out to be the guy who will do the plaster as well. They immediately get started on coping Since I had planned to do all this stone and tile work myself, I had a brand new masonry tile saw sitting on site, the contractor asked about it and I explained, he asked if I was interested in selling it, I said sure, I had no plans for it after the pool work. I was delighted to get my money back out of it. Looking back... I dont think that they owned a tile saw because they used my saw for the duration of the job, and hadn't brought a saw (how had they planned on cutting the coping and tile?!?!?!).

The workers were mexican and honduran, just two of them, with the plaster guy acting as job boss. He set them up, gave them instructions and left. Thankfully the mexican had grown up speaking english so we could converse easily. I had the friday off and kibbutzed and putterred around with the equipment pad.

They set the coping friday and the tile saturday and sunday. The tile is a 1" subway type on a mesh backing so was tricky to set correctly. they took their time and did a nice job. We were happy with it.

I asked the boss (Todd) about the step trim, the trim around the spa, steps and bench seating and he knew nothing about it. Said that would be extra. WHAT?! I pulled out the contract and showed him where it was stated in the contract, and he said fine, Louis just had not communicated with him, but that Louis had not put that in the amount they paid him... he put it in and said he would just bill Louis a little more. Man that did not sound right.

So it came time to grout the coping and the contractor asked us if we wanted white or grey? Well we said we wanted tan or beige to go with the coping and tile. Uh oh... Louis had not bought them any colored grout, and they said we would have to call him to get them the grout we wanted. My wife called and asked him about it, and he started going on about how much more it was going to be, as custom grout colors were sooooo expensive and labor intensive, and it was going to be alot extra to have colored grout. Having done tile work in my past, I knew he was full of baloney and let him know it. The most expensive grout around was about $15 a bag and it would take 4 bags to complete. uh $60 bucks is not expensive. HE then said they had brought the materials they were going to use and they would have to dye it to the color we wanted. I said I didnt care how it got done, but he better come across with some colored grout or I was going to cancel the contract and seek a refund. He showed up about an hour later and dropped off (he didnt even get out of his truck and come around back, he called one of the workers to come and get the dye from him in the truck and sped off, I didnt even know he had come until he had gone) a bottle of dye for the grout. They mixed up the grout and laid it in... we first saw it after they had put it in, and it was ORANGE... I dont mean mildly orange... ORANGE. I wish I had gotten a good pic of it, but it was halloween orange. We told the contractor that it was not ok, and he said they could grind it out and replace it. Sigh. This sucks. Such a small thing and they have to struggle to get it right. The contractor (Todd) had not been on site when the workers laid it in, and he knew we would not be happy with it when he saw it he said. Todd promised that no matter what Louis did he would make it right. Todd seemed to be a bit more of a honest fellow so I relaxed a little. They grouted the tile grey as we asked (to match the plaster) no problem.

He said the trim tile around the seating and steps would be put in in the scratch coat of plaster, and they finished and left. So the tile was not complete in my eyes.

Also during this time in the passing of time and conversation, I learned that Louis had many jobs going on many pools, ALL with very unhappy and unsatisfied people, and that he had cash-flow issues, taking advances on one job to pay for another and all sorts of bad practices that are the hallmarks of bad contracting.

So Louis showed up monday to collect on the coping and tile draw. He did not even go and look at the tile and coping just straight up asked for his check.

I explained about the tile misunderstanding, and that the tile was not complete, and I was unhappy with the coping grout. I told him I did not feel comfortable giving him another 10% with things not completed as agreed upon in the contract. He said the plaster could not proceed until payment was made. I said I was willing to make an addendum to the contract that said plaster payment would not be made unless tile was laid at time of plaster, and he said ok. I paid him. Ugh.

So plaster was scheduled for tuesday. I stressed to him that I wanted to be on site for the plastering and that I had to schedule the day off, so was he certain that plaster would be occurring when he said. He called the contractor and said not tuesday, thursday instead. ok fine.

Thursday... no plaster. Weather was fine, just another lie for Louis. He showed up looking very ill and explained he had been sick and out of action. Ok, fine, can we do fri? Yes. Remember I am having to schedule these days off, and losing a days pay every time I do so. I am lucky I am self employed and can shift my schedule around like this.

Fri am... I get a call from Louis, he is at the doctor and has not been able to have the plaster purchased and delivered. He rambles on for a bit pretty nonsensically, making me wonder if the guy is ok... My humanity kicks in, and I put aside how angry I am over his non-performance (we are now several days PAST when he said the work would be complete, and we are not even 50% done) and express some concern over his health, and the need to put that first. He goes on for a bit talking about his doctor and some test results and some of the things he is saying start ringing bells in my head... I have had a couple of relatives diagnosed with leukemia, and the testing he is having , and the results start matching up with what they had gone through... as well as his symptoms. Holy cow! He never mentions a diagnosis, and not wanting to alarm him, I tell him I think he should focus on his health, my pool is just a material thing and can wait.

Meanwhile the contractor Todd calls me and tells me he is just waiting on Louis to make a phone call to the material distributor and pay for the materials so he can do my job, could I ask Louis to do so from my end? I agree to do so.

Todd has been very appreciative of all the effort and self-education I have put into building my pool, and asks if I would be interested to come and observe a plaster job that will be similar to mine that is not far away from my house. Cool! I go on the following Sunday and watch them plaster this pool, its pretty cool, and I ask all sorts of technical questions and get alot of raised eyebrows and quite a bit of conversaton. Todd seems to know his plaster and job, and I spent an enjoyable Sunday watching his and another plaster crew plastering a large pool at a huge house in a wealthy part of town. Now on a much friendlier basis, Todd confides in me that Louis is a poor contractor in his opinion, knows nothing about the pool business, and he regrets getting involved with him, because he feels his reputation is sufferring. He says Louis does not complete jobs on time and payment is sketchy and his relationships with his subs is deteriorating fast... He also lets me know that Louis was not sick friday, he went to a car show and was out of town.

I speak with Louis monday and he agrees to order the plaster and they will plaster tuesday. I do not let on that I know his call friday was a sham, but I do not express any more sentiments about his health.

Here are a couple of pics of the coping and tile work:

IMG_0149.jpg

browning.jpg

copingtilfin.jpg


More to come.
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

So Plaster....

Several Phone calls were exchanged between myself and Todd the plasterer, where he expressed concern that Louis was not going to call and pay for the materials for the plaster and have it ready for him to pick up. I consulted with a lawyer client of mine on the whole situation, and he suggested we sit down together and call Louis just to let him know we were concerned, and to make sure he understood I was serious, and was not afraid to get a lawyer involved. My lawyer client felt this would make an impression on Louis. In the meantime he called a PI and had a background check run on all parties involved. Lets just say there was plenty of information available on all parties involved.

The lawyer ran most of the conversation and got his point across. He had Louis call and order the material while we were on the phone, and verified it with the supplier all during the same call. He made Louis aware that WE were aware of Louis practices and were in contact with other pool owners that were unhappy with Louis and yadda yadda yadda. Louis seemed cowed and compliant.

So the pool was plastered Tuesday on the revised schedule, it went well and we were very pleased. Todd brought a crew over from Houston, a family affair of plasterers... Father, son, uncle, and a local fellow and Todd.

I counted the diamond brite bags, and I got what I paid for, the plaster went in fine, we acid washed late in the evening and filled the pool.

I bought everyone Pizza and Beer when the job was done. It was a happy day! We geared up to brush brush brush, and anticipated getting the rest of the job done soon.. All that was left was the travertine deck. I was so looking forward to getting all those pallets of travertine out of the driveway and onto my deck!

Louis showed up for a tense meeting wednesday to collect an additional payment. I was happy to pay, the work was done (though not even remotely on time) but that was water under the bridge. I expressed regret to him at having to get a lawyer involved. He stated that he would be finishing my job immediately, he wanted to get away from me I guess. Told me we would see Todd and a crew to lay the travertine saturday AM and they would work until finished. Ok, fine. At this point we are alllmost even on the money... with him being a little ahead of me, but not by much.

Saturday rolled around and much to no one's suprise... no one showed up to lay any travertine. Very depressing, but frankly we expected it. What we didnt expect was we could not get ahold of Todd on the phone. He had always been good about returning our calls promptly and honest about the situation with Louis, He and Us.

Well Louis was of course not answering his phone... it wasn't even on, straight to voicemail. I left messages for him every few minutes until his voicemail gave up and said it was full... My lawyer left a few too.

I got ahold of Louis on monday, who said Todd had had a family emergency and went to Florida to take care of it. Louis said we would have a crew there the following saturday to lay the travertine. I was not holding my breath. Todd called me back on tuesday and said he had scheduled the weekend off with Louis months ago, it was his daughters birthday and he went there, and left his work phone here by accident. He even showed pics and apologized profusely for not returning our call immediately. He hoped we were not mad at him.. he was not aware that Louis had done that to us. He said if everything went ok, he would have a crew in from out of town to lay the travertine this weekend. Cool... I felt like I could believe Todd at this point, he didnt lie in our experience like Louis did.

So friday rolls around and Todd shows up (he knew at this point that I was taking fridays off to work around the pool) and wants to sit down and talk.

He shows me a bunch of checks from Louis, all stamped NSF and STOP PAYMENT and such, totalling about 10K. Ouch.

He explains that Louis seems to have done this to all of his subs, abandoning all pool jobs and floating bad checks to everyone, and there are alot of mad pool owners around town.

I said I was sorry, and was prepared to write off the loss, when Todd surprised me. He said he a) felt bad about me getting screwed over and b)knew I would pay, so would I be willing to let him finish out my contract and lay the tile?

I said I needed to consult with my lawyer, and terminate my contract with Louis, but sure, he could get it finished up for me and I would be pleased to continue to work directly with him. I did feel bad because I knew the travertine was worth more than the 2300 bucks left on the contract.

The next week I terminated Louis in writing and via phone voice mail that was recorded for posterity. I had not spoken to him in a couple of weeks at this point, and had left alot of polite VM asking for a return call, so I knew he was not interested in dealing with me any more. It was mutual. I also had a contract drawn up to govern my relationship with Todd. Since I drew this one up, it heavily favored me, with no payment due until the completion of the job, but leaving me discretion to pay disbursements for work as I saw fit (I wanted to be able to pay the guy if I saw he was starving, or his workers needed the money) I mean who can take a 10K+ financial hit and not hurt? I knew Todd was not rolling in dough, and not the wisest financial manager, but I wanted to both be able to pay him for the work, yet retain leverage to get the work done if our relationship went south.

So Todd got a couple of guys over here and they worked for a couple of weeks every day (missed a couple of days at Todds request for other jobs) and laid all the travertine in. Todd embellished a bit when he said they were experienced.. but I worked with the guys to teach them how to lay the pattern (it WAS confusing) and the overwhelming # of cuts that had to be made (that trench drain system really was a headache for this part) and getting the pattern to "flow" across the drains, the tilt of the deck for drainage and etc etc.

All in all it was just completed yesterday, and they cleaned up all the trash, I donated a lot of tools to them that I will never use again, plus alot of my left over fittings and pipe, rebar... heck just about everything I had left over.

I have a couple of yards of sand left from the pavers, and in fact Todd just called and asked if he could have some of it for some flagstone he was laying for another client... I think if I let it sit there long enough he will come get it all lol. I am thrilled to get it out of here free. I still have about 6 yds of dirt at the street I have to have hauled off.

Here are some pics in progress:

plaster1.jpg

plaster2.jpg

plaster3.jpg

plaster4.jpg

plaster_crew.jpg


Is that a kick-butt mustache or what?


plaster_filled.jpg
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

So a couple of pics of the deck finished:

deck1.jpg


deck2.jpg


So I have extricated myself completely from a bad contractor situation. The lawyer has contacted the other pool owners, and Louis is in for some hurt. I am out of it. There is obviously a bit left out, but those are things I think would distract from the focus on which I intended this thread, the pool.

Unfortunately there are some bad people out there. Thats Life. I refuse to let it ruin the project.. just cut them loose, and count your blessings it wasnt worse! And learn the lessons that are there to learn.

If anyone wants the full name of the pool contractor, and his company name, please email or PM me and I will be happy to assist. I dont want to bash him full on out in public, because that would lead to a bad attitude on my part. But I am obviously not in love with the guy.

Yesterday I erected the missing sections of my fence, so people wont be subjected to my scary white butt when I skinny dip. I also addressed a serious problem with the drains.

Wednesday we had some rain that was pretty heavy, and my mondo-heavy duty drains backed up. WHAT? This was the first rain after the deck was laid to completion, so I was looking forward to see how they handled it. I was not thrilled. So I am out there in the rain, taking covers off and running a snake down em, trying to figure out what is going on... and everything seems fine, so I go look in the sump where the pipe goes into the sump... Lo and behold, during the deck pour, somehow a HUGE blob of concrete (probably like 50 lb) was deposited over the end of the pipe in the sump. Nowhere else in the sump is there concrete, and it was formed up and covered... so I dont quite see how this happenned in any natural way... but I open the sump grate, climb in and bust off the blob, took me about an hour and it drains fine now. We are currently experiencing on and off heavy rains and it works great!

Left to do:

1. apply sand topping mix on the pavers
2. seal pavers and coping
3. install jets in hot tub
4. install spa remote (just run the cable and screw the remote into the deck I have programmed it already)
5. install shower head and valve for outdoor shower
6. landscaping (yuk)
7. add 2 extra valve actuators on the pad so I can program a cleaning cycle without having to adjust valves manually
8. paint the equipment pad piping
9. plumber coming out monday to give me an estimate on hooking up the double backflow prevention device to feed the auto-fill and landscape irrigation, and also on the gas line to the heater.
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

Sorry for all the heartache during the build. The pool looks absolutely beautiful! No way I would have the intestinal fortitude to go through all that! Next summer will be absolutely awesome!
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

Just spent about 2 hours lounging in the pool with the wife.... its about 70 here air temp, and I had the pool up to about 90 with the hot tub up around 100. AHHHHHH no kiddies so no clothes, and relaxing as heck. our cats both came out and sat on the coping by the hot tub and just hung out with us the whole time.

One interesting phenomenon I would love some input on.... Hot tub really hot, 100F, and turn the SWG on and huge white clouds shooting out of the returns in the hot tub that didnt dissapate until the temperature between the pool and the hot tub equalized around 91. Like teeeeensy eeeensy bubbles clouds. But so dense they completely obscured the bottom of the hot tub and you couldnt see anything more than a foot under water. Whats that? Hydrogen bubbles?
 
Re: New Build in Red Stick- **pic heavy** 11-26 update

I'm happy for you Lershac; and happy you and your honey got to break it in already.

The aggravation and frustration you experienced will go away - trust me. You've done a really nice job, dude.
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.