Need Help with Pentair IC40 SWG

[CaliPoolOwner]

Hello everyone, I have recently had my pool servicer install a SWG and I am curious how to read/interpret what's going on with the IC40.

For reference, here is how my system is plumbed:

Pool Water Return -> Pump -> Filter -> Heater -> Check Valve -> IC40 SWG -> Pool Water Send

Note: At Pool Water Return I have 3-way valve that will turn this into Spa Water Return; the same situation at Pool Water Send, I have a 3-way valve that will this into Spa Water Send.

Questions:

1. My servicer installed the SWG downstream of the heater, which I believe is the correction orientation. This prevents highly concentrated salt water generator outputs from entering directly into the heating elements in the heater and prolongs the life of the heater. Is this correct?

2. My servicer installed a 1-way spring door check valve that allows flow from the heater through the IC40 SWG, but stops reverse flow. This is also to keep highly concentrated salt water generator outputs from entering the heater via backflow. Is this correct?

I have my pump set to 2 different schedules. 0800-1100 @2800RPM and 1100-1600 @1500RPM. Other than those schedules, the pump is off. When the pump is running at 2800RPM the IC40 seems to be running okay with all lights/functions working normally and the check valve is open a good amount, letting me know visually that water is flowing through the system appropriately.

3. At 1500RPM, the check valve is not fully open but water seems to be flowing since I see bubbles at the top of the check valve window. The IC40 has a red light for flow, meaning that the IC40 isn't receiving enough water to flow appropriately. Is this situation okay for 1100-1600 @1500RPM? Any adjustments needed?

4. When the pump is fully off, the IC40 has flashing red and green lights in the Salt Level readout section. But the pool has been verified to have appropriate salt content. Is this okay? Or should the pump be running to provide flow at all times?

5. The IC40 seems to be performing and doing its job when the pump is running the 0800-1100 @2800RPM schedule. Will 3 hours per day of appropriate function be enough to keep the pool in check?

I am new to the homeowner and pool life. Any tips or help is appreciated. I've lurked this forum a little bit and happy to be a member now!

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

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Your one-stop shop for all things TFP to include: ABCs of Water Chemistry, Recommended Chemicals/Levels, Test Kits, Troubleshooting, and much more!

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JJ_Tex]

4. When the pump is fully off, the IC40 has flashing red and green lights in the Salt Level readout section. But the pool has been verified to have appropriate salt content. Is this okay? Or should the pump be running to provide flow at all times?

This is very concerning to me as the IC40 should not have power when the pump is off. I'll let others chime in with more details and the proper way to install, but that is a major safety item as the cell should have no power without the pump running due to the risk of it continuing to produce chlorine and eventually exploding.

Explosion near the SWG

We were watching TV and heard a major explosion after exploring in the backyard I went into my pool equipment should and found about a 16 in PVC pipe shredded 8in on one side 8in on the other side of where my SWG Is located. I have no Idea what to think. It appears the SWG somehow was not...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[HermanTX]

3. At 1500RPM, the check valve is not fully open but water seems to be flowing since I see bubbles at the top of the check valve window. The IC40 has a red light for flow, meaning that the IC40 isn't receiving enough water to flow appropriately. Is this situation okay for 1100-1600 @1500RPM? Any adjustments needed?

This is telling us that the flow at 1500rpm is not sufficient to activate the flow sensor and produce chlorine. This is not utilizing the system properly. When the pump is running, you should always try to produce chlorine. This allows you to set the IC40 at a lower output if the pump run time is longer.
There is a great app called PoolMath that you should download and we can show you how to optimize your chlorine output with pump run time.

4. When the pump is fully off, the IC40 has flashing red and green lights in the Salt Level readout section. But the pool has been verified to have appropriate salt content. Is this okay? Or should the pump be running to provide flow at all times?

This is telling us the IC40 was not properly connected (electrically) to your system. Do you have automation system such as an IntelliCenter or is the pump and IC40 hooked directly to an electrical box? Maybe post a picture of the control box and where it is connected to.

5. The IC40 seems to be performing and doing its job when the pump is running the 0800-1100 @2800RPM schedule. Will 3 hours per day of appropriate function be enough to keep the pool in check?

The PM app will help as well knowing your pool volume, CYA level of your water and other levels such as FC (free chlorine)

We recommend that a pool owner should test the water of their pool and should use one of the test kits in
Test Kits Compared

 

[pjt]

Pool Water Return -> Pump -> Filter -> Heater -> Check Valve -> IC40 SWG -> Pool Water Send

To avoid confusion, the "returns" return water back to your pool. The suction side (skimmers/main drain) brings water to the pump.

1. My servicer installed the SWG downstream of the heater, which I believe is the correction orientation. This prevents highly concentrated salt water generator outputs from entering directly into the heating elements in the heater and prolongs the life of the heater. Is this correct?

Yes, the SWCG should be installed last in the sequence. It's only output is chlorine (in relatively low concentration).

2. My servicer installed a 1-way spring door check valve that allows flow from the heater through the IC40 SWG, but stops reverse flow. This is also to keep highly concentrated salt water generator outputs from entering the heater via backflow. Is this correct?

Do you also have a tab feeder? Do you have a heater bypass? If not, the check valve isn't needed. If there's no flow through the SWCG, it doesn't generate any chlorine.

3. At 1500RPM, the check valve is not fully open but water seems to be flowing since I see bubbles at the top of the check valve window. The IC40 has a red light for flow, meaning that the IC40 isn't receiving enough water to flow appropriately. Is this situation okay for 1100-1600 @1500RPM? Any adjustments needed?

Increase the pump RPM until the SWCG flow switch is closed (green flow light). Anytime your pump is running, it should generate enough flow to operate your SWCG.

4. When the pump is fully off, the IC40 has flashing red and green lights in the Salt Level readout section. But the pool has been verified to have appropriate salt content. Is this okay? Or should the pump be running to provide flow at all times?

When the pump is off, the SWCG must not be powered for safety reasons. Your system is setup incorrectly. It's odd that you have the flashing red and green lights (it's trying to measure salinity) instead of a steady red flow light.

Many people with SWCGs operate 24/7 to constantly generate a little chlorine around the clock.

5. The IC40 seems to be performing and doing its job when the pump is running the 0800-1100 @2800RPM schedule. Will 3 hours per day of appropriate function be enough to keep the pool in check?

Most likely that's not enough time to generate the daily chlorine required.

I am new to the homeowner and pool life. Any tips or help is appreciated. I've lurked this forum a little bit and happy to be a member now!

Where are you in California? There's a big difference between Klamath and Needles.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Cali,

Running your pump and not turning on the SWCG just does not make any sense!!! When you have a SWCG pool, the primary reason to run the pump is to make chlorine..

I suspect that you have a heater.. If so, you will have to run 1500 to 1800 rpm for there to be enough flow to turn on the SWCG's flow switch. No one here can tell you exactly what that speed will be.. It is up to you, to experiment and figure it out. When the red flow light is on, slowly increase the pump's speed until the flow light just turns green. Then add about 100 rpm and call it the "Slowest speed you ever what to run"...

If your IC40 has any lights on, when the pump is off, it is wired wrong and your SWCG can actually explode... Does not happen often, but can happen as seen here on TFP.

Unless your pool is the size of a peanut, 3 hours will not come close to making the amount of chlorine your pool needs.. There are several factors to determine the amount of time you need to run your pump, but the main two are... Pool size in gallons, and the output level of the cell.

We do things differently here at TFP, mainly because we science and not guess work..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Hello all... Wow I am learning a lot. I'll post a picture of my setup here. As far as how my IC40 is wired, I suspect that it is connected directly to live power (irregardless of if the pool pump is running or not) as there are always some lights illuminated on the IC40 at all times. I don't have an all-in-one smart panel for controlling my pump or system. My pump, heater, suction (pool or spa) and return (pool or spa) need to be adjusted manually either via clicking buttons or turning valves. Is there a way to wire my IC40 in such a way that it can only be powered when my pool pump is running, given that I don't have an all-in-one smart panel?

Left pump is the primary pump and the 3-way valve allows suction from the pool or spa. The middle pump is for the spa jets. The return (after the SWG) has a 3-way valve that allows return to pool or spa. I went ahead and unplugged my IC40 since the lights are illuminated around the clock. Please disregard the red PVC pipes as that was from a previous solar pool heating element that was disconnected.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

It is a little hard to see in the photo, but the pool heater output (bottom pipe) goes out and towards the wall before turning up and coming towards the IC40 and then into the return plumbing.

There is a check valve in place in front of the IC40, presumably to prevent backflow from the IC40 into the heater when water is not flowing. Is it fine that its there?

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Just wanted to add some relevant pool/equipment information below. I don't have the measurements for the water testing on hand. I will ask my pool servicer to take them next week when he comes by. For now, I have the IC40 unplugged as it seems it was wired to always stay on, regardless of it the pump is on or not.

Pool Size: 14,000-15,000 gallons. I only got a little bit wet taking measurements.

Equipment List:

• Pump: Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST
• Filter: Pentair CC200
• Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 400 (Natural Gas)
• SWG: Pentair IntelliChlor IC40
• Spa Pump: Century Centurion 2.2 Horsepower

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Your SWCG is powered with the pump not running. That needs to be fixed -- and you have an Intellicenter so that should be controlling this. The SWCG needs to controlled by the Intellicenter.

Sorry to revive this thread, I have started a thread of my own as well to get more input.

I am encountering the same issue with my IC40 flow light being red and other lights flashing green/red when the pump is not running. Without an IntelliCenter, is it possible to wire the IC40 in such a way that it only turns on when my pump schedule is running?

Here is my equipment list:

• Pump: Pentair Intelliflo 2 VST
• Filter: Pentair CC200
• Heater: Pentair Mastertemp 400 (Natural Gas)
• SWG: Pentair IntelliChlor IC40
• Spa Pump: Century Centurion 2.2 Horsepower

Plumbed as such: suction -> pump -> filter -> heater -> SWG -> return (both suction and return have manual 3-way valves to select pool vs spa)

Thank you!

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

You have a gas heater and a smaller filter, so my 'guess' is that you will have to run 1700 to 1800 rpm, to close your SWCG's flow switch.. Still not a lot of electricity..

Go into the pump and slowly increase the speed from 1500 up toward 1800 and see where the SWCG's flow switch turns green..

I don't see a need to run 2800, unless you have a suction powered cleaner and it does not look like you do..

You don't need an automation system, but it would automatically turn the Intake and Return valves when you want to switch between the pool mode and the spa mode.. Does your spa spillover into your pool?? I ask, because the valves in your pic will not allow that to happen.

An automation system would ensure that your main pump was on, before turning on the cell..

Cell's can explode, but several things have to go bad at the same time, so it is rare.. Something to fix, but I would not turn off the cell for now, as you will need the chlorine.

The simplest thing to do is just run 24/7.. at a speed that just turns your cell on.... This is what I do and I love it.. At a low rpm you can't hear the pump and it cost very little to run.. My cost to run 24/7 is less than $20 bucks a month.. I like making a little chlorine all the time and I like skimming all the time.. I also like the look of my pool when it is not 'dead'..

There are other things that you can do with the AC power to the cell, but let's get you up and running before we go down that path.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

Without an IntelliCenter, is it possible to wire the IC40 in such a way that it only turns on when my pump schedule is running?

Not directly. You will need to install a timer or a current sensing device. Sadly you should have installed an Intelliflo3 VS pump with relay card and that would have solved your issue.

Do this soon.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

You do not need the check between the heater and the IC40, but it will not hurt anything.. You might have to run the pump slightly faster..

Jim R.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

You have a gas heater and a smaller filter, so my 'guess' is that you will have to run 1700 to 1800 rpm, to close your SWCG's flow switch.. Still not a lot of electricity..

Go into the pump and slowly increase the speed from 1500 up toward 1800 and see where the SWCG's flow switch turns green..

I don't see a need to run 2800, unless you have a suction powered cleaner and it does not look like you do..

You don't need an automation system, but it would automatically turn the Intake and Return valves when you want to switch between the pool mode and the spa mode.. Does your spa spillover into your pool?? I ask, because the valves in your pic will not allow that to happen.

An automation system would ensure that your main pump was on, before turning on the cell..

Cell's can explode, but several things have to go bad at the same time, so it is rare.. Something to fix, but I would not turn off the cell for now, as you will need the chlorine.

The simplest thing to do is just run 24/7.. at a speed that just turns your cell on.... This is what I do and I love it.. At a low rpm you can't hear the pump and it cost very little to run.. My cost to run 24/7 is less than $20 bucks a month.. I like making a little chlorine all the time and I like skimming all the time.. I also like the look of my pool when it is not 'dead'..

There are other things that you can do with the AC power to the cell, but let's get you up and running before we go down that path.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,

Thank you for the valuable information. I am very glad to have found this information and posted my concerns before I created a hydrogen gas build up...

I have a little cleaner that is attached to a hose inside the pool, I assume that is a suction powered cleaner? It rolls around but is otherwise not electrically powered from what I can tell.

My spa does have a few "slits" in it where the water can flow back and forth from the pool to the spa. I would love to get an automation system in place at some point, its just not in the budget at the moment. For now, if we wanted to heat the pool, we'd manually turn on the pump and heater. If we wanted to heat just the spa, we'd turn on the pump and heater, as well as change the position of both 3-way valves to suction and return to just the spa. I typed most of that out just to make sure it makes sense to myself, but if you can clarify/verify that would be helpful.

As I understand it, I have a number of options:

1. Invest in an automation panel (will allow for changing of valves electronically, setting heat electronically, and ensure that SWG is only turned on at appropriate times).
2. Run a pump at a constant, low RPM that is above the threshold of the SWG's flow switch and set the SWG to a low setting to generate a little bit of chlorine around the clock.
3. Find a way to incorporate (via relay perhaps?) the SWG so that it only turns on when the pool pump turns on. An automation panel does this, is there a way to do this without an automation panel with the equipment that I have listed in the previous post?

General questions... What are the downsides and upsides to running my pump 24/7/365? Is this a norm in the industry? Or would this be considered an exception case? I assume that pump life may decrease over time since it is being run all the time? Any other things to know about this?... $20/month is not a lot of money and it reduces any uncertainty regarding SWG operating when its not supposed to be...

Thanks!

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

Not directly. You will need to install a timer or a current sensing device. Sadly you should have installed an Intelliflo3 VS pump with relay card and that would have solved your issue.

Do this soon.

Hi mknauss, thanks for providing a quick reply. Another use (Jimrahbe) suggested that I could run my pump 24/7/365 until I get some automation put in place. Do you have any thoughts about that? Positives or negatives?

As far as the Intelliflo 2 VST being installed. That pump was part of the existing system. All that I have invested in so far is the heater and SWG. The previous heater broke and looked to be 25-30 years old.

 

[HermanTX]

My pump, heater, suction (pool or spa) and return (pool or spa) need to be adjusted manually either via clicking buttons or turning valves. Is there a way to wire my IC40 in such a way that it can only be powered when my pool pump is running, given that I don't have an all-in-one smart panel?

You must set your pump to run 24/7, then adjust your SWCG output to create the desired amount of chlorine.
Since you do not have automation or a clock timer the only solution is to run the pump 24/7 for now and keep the SWCG plugged in.

We can discuss other options such as a time clock to plug the SWCG into if you do not want to run your pump 24/7

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

You do not need the check between the heater and the IC40, but it will not hurt anything.. You might have to run the pump slightly faster..

Jim R.

I believe the style of check valve that I have has screws to remove the sight glass and flip the check side orientation. Could I simply remove that flapper entirely and put it back together? If it helps cut down the RPM even a little bit, that would be helpful. If I do opt for the 24/7/365 route, I would aim for the lowest threshold RPM that safely operates the SWG at all times.

I thought this check valve is valuable in preventing SWG outputs from entering directly into the heater coils. I've read online that its helpful in that way, but if it truly is meaningless (I imagine salt water is constantly running through the heater coils) then I could just remove the flap door.

 

[Jimrahbe]

C,

Your cell, when run 24 hours at 100% output will add about 11 ppm of FC (Chlorine) to your pool.. That is basically .45 ppm per hour at 100% output..

Most pools use 2 to 4 ppm of FC per day.. So let's use 3 ppm...

To make 3 ppm of FC you will have to run the cell for at least 6.5 hours, at 100% output.. You really never want to run at 100% output..

At 50% output you will have to run the cell for about 13 hours.. And.. this may not be enough in the middle of the summer..

What were you expecting???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[mknauss]

You can definitely run the pump continuously. Many believe that extends the life of the pump as start up is the hardest time on the pump components.
Your expense will likely be more than what Jim spends as you are in California, land of very expensive electricity.

 

[CaliPoolOwner]

C,

Your cell, when run 24 hours at 100% output will add about 11 ppm of FC (Chlorine) to your pool.. That is basically .45 ppm per hour at 100% output..

Most pools use 2 to 4 ppm of FC per day.. So let's use 3 ppm...

To make 3 ppm of FC you will have to run the cell for at least 6.5 hours, at 100% output.. You really never want to run at 100% output..

At 50% output you will have to run the cell for about 13 hours.. And.. this may not be enough in the middle of the summer..

What were you expecting???

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you Jim, I am learning as I go and I really appreciate your input. I will go with 24/7/365 for now. From your math, I should be running my salt cell at 20-25% of its output 24/7 to create the desired 3 ppm/day output?