Need Help With Integrating a Pond Feature Into Pool Equipment...

[MauiMana]

Hi All. I am adding a small pond / waterbowl feature and would iike to run it off of my existing pool equipment (pool has no spa.. and the pond is completely separate from the pool area... and the pond will have a clean, completely tiled interior with no plants, fish, etc. (i.e., clean body of water)). The pool is 24'L x 12'W x 6'D and there is a 36" sheer descent waterfall that spills into it which is currently on the same waterlines as the pool (i.e., no diverter). What's being added is a pond / water-bowl feature that is in a different part of the yard. This feature consists of a waterbowl that spills into a 336 Gallon (45 CuFt) pond. The waterbowl has about 24" of spillway and we're just looking for a gentle flow of water from the spillway into the pond (not a lot of throw). My current equipment consists of an Pentair IntelliFlo VS pump and Pentair salt water chlorination system. I also intend to add a Pentair EasyToucvh automation controller to manage the pool, pond, and a couple of tiki torches. So my questions are as follows:


1) given that the pool and pond will have different 'flow' needs, as well as the desire to operate them separately or together, can the differing flow configurations be programmed into the IntelliFlo VS pump, or should this be done at the diverter valve level with something like the pentair IntelliValve?


2) if the IntelliValve is the recommended route then does the version of the Pentair EasyTouch controller need to be one that includes an actuator, or can the valve be controlled by one of the controller's available relays?


3) perhaps a stupid question, but does the IntelliValve contain the diverter itself, or does it need to be coupled with a separate diverter (i.e., is the IntelliValve physically manipulate the diverter valve it is attached to?)?


Thanks...

 

[Dirk]

How big is this water bowl?
Will birds use it?
Will it have some sort of fountain?

 

[MauiMana]

Dirk, here are the specifics for all of the features... The pool is 24'L x 12'W x 6'D and there is a 36" sheer descent waterfall that spills into it which is currently on the same waterlines as the pool (i.e., no diverter). What's being added is a pond / water-bowl feature that is in a different part of the yard. This feature consists of a waterbowl that spills into a 336 Gallon (45 CuFt) pond. The waterbowl has about 24" of spillway and we're just looking for a gentle flow of water from the spillway into the pond (not a lot of throw). And due to its location with respect to the home I do not foresee birds feeling comfortable enough to venture into the pond area (so salt water should be fine). Please let me know if you need any additional details.

How big is this water bowl?
Will birds use it?
Will it have some sort of fountain?

 

[Dirk]

I asked about the birds because I was going to question the wisdom of attaching a bird toilet to your pool (sorry to be so graphic). I can see the allure of using your salt and filter and pump and chlorine to handle this new feature. It could work out to be economical and trouble-free-ish. But I'm not sure this is going to work. I asked about the size, because I'm running my "water bowl," with fountain, with only an aquarium pump and a splash of chlorine now and then. I rigged up an easy way to fill it to counter evaporation. And the pump/fountain is automated, so I can turn it on from anywhere in the house or yard. But your pond is much, much bigger. I'm pretty sure combining these two bodies of water isn't a good idea, but the exact reason why is eluding me. Something about organics in the water, keeping it clean, water level, something. Not sure.

That doesn't mean some of what you're after couldn't work. I think you could use your ET to automate some or all of the pond functions, if it has available relays. But you might need a standalone filter/pump for it, and separate that much from the pool stuff.

Someone else here will either be able to say why it won't work, or explain how to do it correctly. It's certainly not a common thing. Sorry, that's all I got for now...

 

[jimmythegreek]

you do realize that you can make anything work w the right valving and pump HP settings but I would be cautious as this will mix with your pool water. you do realize there is NO way to keep the water separated and use 1 pump w 2 bodies of water. If you feel the water will stay clean enuff to mix with pool water you can do this with valving. we need pics of your current equipment pad and the specs of your pump

 

[ajw22]

This feature consists of a waterbowl that spills into a 336 Gallon (45 CuFt) pond. The waterbowl has about 24" of spillway and we're just looking for a gentle flow of water from the spillway into the pond (not a lot of throw).

All of that aeration from the spillways is going to give you a constantly rising PH problem. It would not be a problem for a pond but will be a problem when mixed with your pool water.

I think you will find it difficult to maintain your pool water balance. And the pond may be a source of algae that can feed into the pool. There is another thread going with someone with a stream between his pool and spa causing algae problems.

 

[jblizzle]

Being that these are completely different bodies of water with no connection. I am not sure you are heading in the right direction with this plan.

If you want to use the same equipment, the only thing you could do is run the pool OR the pond at a time. They can't be run at the same time with the same equipment.
And even doing this is a huge risk. What happens when you switch to running in pond mode and only the suction valve turns and not the return valve ... answer: all the pond water is pumped into your pool (gross) and the pump keeps running with no water and is damaged.

I would highly recommend a separate equipment setup for your pond.

 

[Dirk]

There you go, MauiMana. The reasons I couldn't articulate are now coming in. Sorry 'bout that.

Even if this idea was doable, is that actually the best way to do it? Or the most cost-effective?

You're talking about a run of a few pipes plus fittings. All kinds of valves and actuators. Adds up.

There are pump/filter combos, even some with built-in (or add-on) SWGs, designed for above-ground pools, that are not too expensive. Here's an example:

Amazon.com: Intex 28673EG Krystal Clear Cartridge Filter Pump Outdoor

It's only $160 bucks! I doubt you could add valves and pipes and actuators for that price. Now, I can't vouch for the quality of this product, but others here will be able to help you down this path, if you like the idea.

You could divert a bit of the flow to the bowl, to get just the right amount of spill. And you could connect the thing to your ET for scheduling and/or manual on-off. When you run those wires, you could include a set that runs underwater lights for the pond and/or spillway, etc. and control those with the ET, too.

Pretty much what you were after, without the potential risks involved with combining these two dissimilar-use bodies of water. And this setup could be run at any time, without disrupting or relying on the scheduling for your pool.

Then the birds and frogs and raccoons can play in your pond, and leave your family and your pool alone...

 

[Jimrahbe]

I am adding a small pond / waterbowl feature and would iike to run it off of my existing pool equipment (pool has no spa.. and the pond is completely separate from the pool area). My current equipment consists of an Pentair IntelliFlo VS pump and Pentair salt water chlorination system. I also intend to add a Pentair EasyToucvh automation controller to manage the pool, pond, and a couple of tiki torches. So my questions are as follows:


1) given that the pool and pond will have different 'flow' needs, as well as the desire to operate them separately or together, can the differing flow configurations be programmed into the IntelliFlo VS pump, or should this be done at the diverter valve level with something like the pentair IntelliValve?


2) if the IntelliValve is the recommended route then does the version of the Pentair EasyTouch controller need to be one that includes an actuator, or can the valve be controlled by one of the controller's available relays?


3) perhaps a stupid question, but does the IntelliValve contain the diverter itself, or does it need to be coupled with a separate diverter (i.e., is the IntelliValve physically manipulate the diverter valve it is attached to?)?


Thanks...

mm,

You really don't want the IntelliValve.. It is not a valve at all, it is really an actuator that turns a standard Jandy style valve... It is not what you think it is... It is just a fancied-up actuator.. It does not allow you to use the automation to adjust the valve on the fly to various flow rates.. It uses electronics to set the stops, where the normal actuator uses mechanical stops.. It will still only rotate from one stop to the other.

Do you plan to mix water between the two systems or not? Were you trying to use the one pump and filter for both systems? Tell us more about your plan.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[MauiMana]

These are all very helpful moments, thank you. TFP has proven to me once again to be the place to get genuine help and answers, a great resource...

Based on the comments I've received thus far I added a bit more detail to me initial post as to the pond, as well as the pool. And I might be underestimating the situation but with the pond being in a small central courtyard surrounded on all four sides the the home's interior, I would expect the pond to be a pretty clean place (even though it is still open to the sky... and the PH issue caused by the 24" of spillway is certainly something to consider as well). Also, my initial desire to run the new pond/water-bowl off my existing pool equipment was to minimize both expense as well as complexity. This was assuming that the pond would need a sizable pump being that it is about a 335 gallons and bowl has 24" of spillway, and the pump will be located about 40 FT from the pond (2" water lines were roughed in for the pond but of course could be reduced down to 1 1/2"). And then there's some kind of filter and chlorine system that would be needed... all the components that our pool already has. But sharing this equipment would require valves and as has been pointed out, may cause operational complications should anything go wrong.

 

[Dirk]

If the pond overflowed, would there be a potential for the water to enter the interior of your home?

 

[MauiMana]

The courtyard has plenty of built in site drainage so, no, there is no danger of the courtyard flooding should the pond overflow . Also, FWIW, I also designed in an overflow pipe that sits in the pond wall just below the coping.

If the pond overflowed, would there be a potential for the water to enter the interior of your home?

 

[Dirk]

You say "plenty of drainage," but enough to handle 40gpm if the valves or actuators malfunctioned, or got out of sync? As someone else mentioned, there is the potential that the main pump could pump a lot of (even all of) the pool into the pond, which could tax even a very robust drainage system. Something to consider.

I'm still hawking the stand-alone idea. I had an aquarium in my living room, but all the pumps and hoses were inside the thing, an acrylic tank that would have to melt before any water could escape, or be pumped out. If I was placing a 300 gallon chunk of water within the walls of my home (which is what in essence you're describing, from the sound of it), I wouldn't connect it in any way, via a high-volume pump, to a swimming pool. Especially if the system was run by electronics! And I'd place the circulation pump such that no malfunction would allow any water to get to the floor. I'd try to place the pump and all plumbing within the sphere of the water, so any leaks or errant pumping or broken pipe or fittings would leak back into the pond. Like on a shelf or structure, over the water, hidden in some way, perhaps obscured in part by the bowl. Or in the water itself. Similar to the way my fountain works. The pump is underwater, and is directed to a fountain through a short tube. There's no way for the water to leave the lower bowl, it's all self-contained.

Without humans or much, if any, organic material in the pond, I'm not sure that you need much in the way of filtration and sanitization. I bet a small, underwater pump (in the pond), piped to the bowl for the spill effect, just large enough to give you the subtle flow you want, along with some CYA and a little chlorine once a week, might be all you need, and greatly simplify this project. Perhaps a simple inline filter if the water got a little cloudy? That would certainly be a very inexpensive setup to try first, to see how it worked for you...

$50, a short hose and a couple gallons of chlorine... done deal:

Shop smartpond 500-Gph Submersible Fountain Pump at Lowes.com

Or give these guys, or similar vendor, a call. I bet they'd know exactly what you need. Check out the product on this page, something like that could do everything:

https://www.thepondguy.com/product/...s/water-gardens-fish-ponds-all-in-one-filters