Need help on how to use my new spa

[Jerryxe]

Hi, desprately need help on how to use my new spa... My wife asked to turn on to use, and I failed 2 of out of 3 trials.... And now I am being blamed for disappointing her...

Setup: I have an above-ground spa (with spillover feature) next to my pool, all Pentair equipment, 2 variable speed pumps. All remotely controlled on my app. And I set both pumps to run daily at high speed between 9AM-5PM, nothing else.

1st trial: During the night, when the pentair is not running (all pumps are off, as it's out of scheduled run time), the spa is full of water, and I was able to turn on the spa and use it (it took 2 hours to heat water from 40 degree to 100).

2nd trial: During the day time, when the pentair regular run is on (2 pumps running at high speed), I turned on spa, and after 3-4 hours, and spa temperature is only 70 (up from 40), spa water is full. I doubt this is because I didn't turn off the regular pump run, which caused heated water went back to pool?

3nd trial: During the day time, I turned off pentair pumps (and deleted schedules), spa water level is full, and turned on spa, after 1-2 hours, I noticed the temperature is already at 100 degree, buy the water level in the spa is very low (similar to pool water level, and only 1/3 of spa depth), so I doubt the heated water just went back to pool? (see photo 3, the water level kept going down until very low)

I am now very concerned, what is causing me not able to use the pool?

One more thing I noticed, every evening after the regular high speed pump run finishes, most of the time the spa water will keep full until next day (photo 1 is most common in the evening, after pump run finishes), but ocassionally the spa water level will be very low (similar to pool water level, photo 2 ocaasionally happens, and the water level is very low), what's could cause this?

Really appreciatted any help!

 

[PoolStored]

Please post multiple pictures of your equipment pad so we can see all the equipment, piping and valves.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

As posted above, we need to see several pics of your equipment pad plus your automation system's main display panel..

Also, tell us how you are controlling your automation system... Phone or PC or ???

In theory, all you need to do to use the spa is push the Spa icon or button, and the system should change to the spa mode and start to heat the spa to your requested temperature.. The fact that it took a long time to heat is somewhat normal.. It is the downside of having an integrated spa.. It does not stay hot when not in use.

What is your heater's BTU rating??

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Thank you all. I have taken some photos. The heater is 400K BTU (Pentair MasterTemp High Performance 400), which should heat my spa from 40 degree to 100 degree in <2 hours (which is what I got in my first trial, and was successful in using it in the first trial).

I am using Pentair's ScreenLogic app on my iPhone to control. When I need to start spa, I would go to the screen in photo 17, press the Spa button, which will also heat the spa.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

As posted above, we need to see several pics of your equipment pad plus your automation system's main display panel..

Also, tell us how you are controlling your automation system... Phone or PC or ???

In theory, all you need to do to use the spa is push the Spa icon or button, and the system should change to the spa mode and start to heat the spa to your requested temperature.. The fact that it took a long time to heat is somewhat normal.. It is the downside of having an integrated spa.. It does not stay hot when not in use.

What is your heater's BTU rating??

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you Jim. When I want to use Spa, I would press the Spa button on Pentair's Screenlogic app, which will start the pump and the heat icon will show up. But out of the 3 trials, 2 had issues:
- First trial was successful when I start it in the evening, when the pool/Spa's main pumps were all off. The heat took 2 hours to bring temp from 40 to 100 degress
- In 2nd trial durintg the day time when pool/spa's main pumps were running, although I pressed the spa button, but after 3-4 hours, the spa temp is still only 70 degress, and I doubt if they's becasue the main pool/spa pumps were running, so the heated water in spa cycles back to pool.
- In 3rd trial during the day time, I specifcially turned off all pumps (deleted all schedules), and the spa water level is full. After pressing spa button, I can see the spa pump is working and temp is going up. But after 2 hours, I noticed that although the temp reached 100 degree, the spa water level is very low (only 1/3 of full level)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

Put the system into the Spa mode and tell me if the Intake valve and the Return valve move 180 degrees from what they are in your pic..

See below...



Thanks,


Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

Put the system into the Spa mode and tell me if the Intake valve and the Return valve move 180 degrees from what they are in your pic..

See below...

View attachment 629689

Thanks,


Jim R.

Thanks Jim for the instruction! And you are right, when I enable spa mode, both valve rotate 180 degree!

I then did 2 test:
1. Turn off all pumps, and delete all schedules to make sure nothing is running, spa water is still full, turn on spa mode, both valves rotate 180 degree, and it took 1.5 hours to reach temp 100 degree from 55. So apparently this works now.

2. Turn off spa mode, turn on all pumps and added back schedules, and wait until spa water temp goes back to 55 degree. Then enable spa mode. Both values rotate 180 degree, the heater start working, but the temp goes up much slower than 1st test. I noticed that water kept coming off the negative edge of spa (the channel in photo connects to the pool, which is not heated). I wonder if this is because the heated water kept getting leaked to pool, and how to turn off the water spillover the negative edge of spa?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

You have two pumps.. One is your main pool/spa pump, depending on how the Intake and Return valve are positioned.

I 'assume' the other pump is just for your spa jets... Is this true? If so, when you turn on the Spa circuit, do both pumps come on, or just the main pump?

If you can, show me the "Circuits" page from your app.

I also 'assume' that when you are in the pool mode, that your spa spills over into your pool.. Is that true?? Does this happen all the time, or just a couple of times a day.

I do not see a way to turn your 2nd pump on or off from your EasyTouch panel??? Is it controlled by one of the unlabeled buttons?

To be honest, I'm trying to figure out how your spa gets water to spillover... At the moment it does not make sense to me..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

You have two pumps.. One is your main pool/spa pump, depending on how the Intake and Return valve are positioned.

I 'assume' the other pump is just for your spa jets... Is this true? If so, when you turn on the Spa circuit, do both pumps come on, or just the main pump?

If you can, show me the "Circuits" page from your app.

I also 'assume' that when you are in the pool mode, that your spa spills over into your pool.. Is that true?? Does this happen all the time, or just a couple of times a day.

I do not see a way to turn your 2nd pump on or off from your EasyTouch panel??? Is it controlled by one of the unlabeled buttons?

To be honest, I'm trying to figure out how your spa gets water to spillover... At the moment it does not make sense to me..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hi Jim,

where can I find the "Circuts" page in the app?

I will do some test to see which mode controls which pump, and get back. I felt the labels might be misleading.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

There are two apps for ScreenLogic... ScreenLogic and then SLConfig.. If you don't have SLConfig, I suggest that you load it.. Or, load ScreenLogic on your PC is which is about 10 x better and you get things like this..

Set up page 2a.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 11, 2020

Set up page 2.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 8, 2020

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

There are two apps for ScreenLogic... ScreenLogic and then SLConfig.. If you don't have SLConfig, I suggest that you load it.. Or, load ScreenLogic on your PC is which is about 10 x better and you get things like this..

Set up page 2a.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 11, 2020

Set up page 2.JPG

• Jimrahbe
• Jun 8, 2020

Thanks,

Jim R.

Hmmm, didn't know there is a screenlogic PC app. I downloaded the screenlogic2 PC app from Pentair (surprised that this app last update is from year 2019).

However when I login in, click "Start ScreenLogic" or "Configurate ScreenLogic" will both get errors... Any idea why?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

You have to set it up as the System Administrator..

When it is working, the local system box will show the IP address.. It should be highlighted.. if not select it..

Also, for me anyway, I never had to use a password, because it was all local.. When I used remote (cell phone) I had to us a password.

I am not much of a computer guy.. it just always worked for me and I set it up myself...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

You have to set it up as the System Administrator..

When it is working, the local system box will show the IP address.. It should be highlighted.. if not select it..

Also, for me anyway, I never had to use a password, because it was all local.. When I used remote (cell phone) I had to us a password.

I am not much of a computer guy.. it just always worked for me and I set it up myself...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Looks like run as system admin is the solution! Thanks! I just realized that I had this app previously (when the pool was just built), and used it to create the "Pool High" circuit, but I have no idea what I was doing...

Below is the circuits screenshot.

Any comment/suggestions on how to configure? Or if there is any documentation/tutorial that I can read/watch? Thanks!

I think pump 1 is for spa, and pump 2 is for pool, but I am not sure...

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

Thanks for the pics... Things that I see..

Your 2nd pump is for the spa jets.. It is set up to run on a Feature Circuit called "Jets".. But... there is no corresponding Jets speed assigned to Pump #2.. On pump #2's speed set up page, you need to delete "High Speed" and replace it with the "jets" circuit. Also remove "Jets" from pump #1..

I never recommend running a combination of GPM and RPM.. I like all RPM, but never a mix... On pump #1 change Spa to 3400 or 3450 rpm.

You have a circuit called "Spillway" but it is not set up as the "Spillway mode".. The Spillway mode sets the Intake valve to suck water from the pool and sets the Return valve to send all the water to the spa.. This will cause the spa to spillover into the pool.. You control the amount of water flow by setting the pump speed..

You need to change the Spillway Circuit's "Function" to Spillway.. to set up the Spillway mode.

Then you would schedule the Spillway circuit to turn on for half an hour twice a day. This will keep the water in the spa fresh and chlorinated.

I suspect that 3000 rpm for the spillway mode will be way too fast.. Try it and see.

Fix those things and then we can go from there..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

To turn on pump #2 you will need to turn on the "jets" circuit. You really should not be doing this while the spa is heating.. I would use the jets after the spa gets up to the initial temp you want. You can adjust the speed of pump #2 to match how you want the jets to work.

Just to be sure.. When you turn on pump #1, pump #2 should NOT come on.. Just want to make sure the two pumps have two different RS-485 addresses..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

To turn on pump #2 you will need to turn on the "jets" circuit. You really should not be doing this while the spa is heating.. I would use the jets after the spa gets up to the initial temp you want. You can adjust the speed of pump #2 to match how you want the jets to work.

Just to be sure.. When you turn on pump #1, pump #2 should NOT come on.. Just want to make sure the two pumps have two different RS-485 addresses..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Really appreciate! Below screenshot is what I have changed based on your suggestion. Thanks!

A few follow up questions.
1. So what are each pump controls? Does pump #1 controls pool & spa, and #2 controls spa only?
2. What's the use of the Pool circut for (circuit function is Pool, and it's set in pump #1)? Is this used to circulate/filter waters in pool and spa, so I should run daily 6-8 hours at high speed? (and have spa spillover only work for half an hour twice)
3. I have in-flooring automatic cleaning system, which one control it? (I see there is a circuit function called Floor Cleaner, but no circut is using it)
4. There is an "Air Blower" curcuit (circuit function = Generic), but no pump is using it, what's this for?
5. What is "On w/Freeze", some is Yes, some is No. I live in Vegas, the temp don't usually go to below 32 degree in the winter.
6. There is another circuit "Aux Extra" with the name "AuxEx", function Generic, not seeing is used anywhere...

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

The Pool and Spa Circuits are fixed so their function is always Pool and Spa.. No reason to screw with them at all.

The blower is the large black 'can-like' device, about 3 or 4 feet above your two pumps.. It is used to pump air into the spa jets.. It is run by your 'Blower' Circuit using the Aux 3 relay.
I'd put the system into the Spa mode, but do not turn on the jet's pump, push the Blower button and see what happens... It may or may not need the Jet's pump running to work.. You will have to test and see..

Pump #1 (Main pump) is used for the Pool when in the pool mode and used for the spa when in the spa mode... the Jet's pump would only be turned on when in the spa mode and you want more jet 'action' than what you get with the main pump.. I'd try this with and without the blower, just to see how everything works..

The main pump is what circulates the water through the filter and heater..

The Jet pump, just runs the spa jets and that is it..

The main pump usually is what runs any IFCS. We will need to set up some schedules so that it works... At this point Do Not use "Cleaner" function..

On with Freeze, means that circuit will turn on any time the air temp gets below 35 degrees... This can be both good and bad, we can discuss this later after things are up and running.

AuxEx is just that.. An 'extra' relay connection.. You have a system that has 4 relays.. The Pump/Filter relay plus Aux 1, 2 and 3. Aux circuits have relays and are used to turn on external things.. Like the Blower or the lights... Feature Circuits are identical to Aux circuits, but they have no relays.. They are used for internal things, like valve movements, pump speeds etc..

If we decide that you need more relays we can use the AuxEx circuit.. Right now, we need to focus on what you have already.

You need to set your Pool Circuit to the 'slowest' speed you ever want to run, and then we can add additional speeds.. 3450 is an insane speed for your main pool pump. For reference, I run at 1200 RPM.. uses about 200 watts or less than $20 bucks a month.

If you have a SWCG (salt cell) I can't see it...

Please let me know how things go, and if you have more questions..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jerryxe]

Jerry,

The Pool and Spa Circuits are fixed so their function is always Pool and Spa.. No reason to screw with them at all.

The blower is the large black 'can-like' device, about 3 or 4 feet above your two pumps.. It is used to pump air into the spa jets.. It is run by your 'Blower' Circuit using the Aux 3 relay.
I'd put the system into the Spa mode, but do not turn on the jet's pump, push the Blower button and see what happens... It may or may not need the Jet's pump running to work.. You will have to test and see..

Pump #1 (Main pump) is used for the Pool when in the pool mode and used for the spa when in the spa mode... the Jet's pump would only be turned on when in the spa mode and you want more jet 'action' than what you get with the main pump.. I'd try this with and without the blower, just to see how everything works..

The main pump is what circulates the water through the filter and heater..

The Jet pump, just runs the spa jets and that is it..

The main pump usually is what runs any IFCS. We will need to set up some schedules so that it works... At this point Do Not use "Cleaner" function..

On with Freeze, means that circuit will turn on any time the air temp gets below 35 degrees... This can be both good and bad, we can discuss this later after things are up and running.

AuxEx is just that.. An 'extra' relay connection.. You have a system that has 4 relays.. The Pump/Filter relay plus Aux 1, 2 and 3. Aux circuits have relays and are used to turn on external things.. Like the Blower or the lights... Feature Circuits are identical to Aux circuits, but they have no relays.. They are used for internal things, like valve movements, pump speeds etc..

If we decide that you need more relays we can use the AuxEx circuit.. Right now, we need to focus on what you have already.

You need to set your Pool Circuit to the 'slowest' speed you ever want to run, and then we can add additional speeds.. 3450 is an insane speed for your main pool pump. For reference, I run at 1200 RPM.. uses about 200 watts or less than $20 bucks a month.

If you have a SWCG (salt cell) I can't see it...

Please let me know how things go, and if you have more questions..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim! I do have SWCG for summer, but has taken down since November due to low temprature (will add back around Mar/Apr when temperature goes up)

I have done a few test per you suggestion.

Test 1:
- Step 1: Turn off everything. Turn on Spa mode (Jets mode off). The Spa shows water coming out, though the flow is very low (See photo 61)
- Step 2: Turn on Air blower mode. The Spa shows huge water coming out (See photo 62)
- Step 3: Turn off air blower mode (keep Spa mode on). The Spa shows smaller water flow, but still much bigger than step 1 (Photo 63), so I guess the air blower helped spa mode? (Remembered the builder told me to start air blower for 1 minute or so when I start Spa mode)
- Step 4: Turn on Jet mode (keep spa mode on). The water flow reached max, and constantly water coming off the edges. (Likely what you said, this enabled jet action, and should be used after water reach desired temprature, to enjoy the "water massage"?)

This test now helped me to understand how Spa/blower/jets mode work now. Thanks!

Test 2:
- Turn off everything. Turn on Pool mode with speed 3450 RPM. I can see IFCS heads poping up to clean and rotate among all heads in both pool and spa.
- Turn on spillway mode, and I can water spillover spa edges to pool. So this is also working.

So this test shows Pool mode at high RPM works, and IFCS is automatic with Pool mode

Test 3:
- Turn off everything. Turn on Pool mode with speed 1200-1500 RPM. No visual water movements, and no IFCS heads working. This probably means low RPM pool mode doesn't have enough water movement to enable IFCS?

Does this mean I should run Pool mode with high RPM during the daily run to enable IFCS? (Previously someone else recommended me to run 6-8 hours a day in high RPM to clean and circulate, and low RPM in the night to generate chlorate)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Jerry,

Sounds like things are really coming together for you...

I suggest that you run your pump 24/7... this will allow you to make a little chlorine all the time and skim all the time... With a heater, your slowest speed will be about 1500 or so.. You won't be able to tell for sure, until you get your SWCG back in.. You should run your pump however you want, but I'm going to show you how things work, based on a 24 hour schedule.. You can just adjust it to what you want. The rpms are just an example...

Pool... 8 am until 8 am.. (This means the system will be in the pool mode 24/7) Does not mean you can't switch the spa on whenever you want. You want your salt cell to be on anytime the pump is running.. The cell will only be on if you are in the Pool mode or the Spa mode.. Pump runs at 1500 rpm (whatever you set for pool) No matter how long you run per day, you want the Pool circuit to be scheduled to be on the entire time..

Spillover... 9am until 9:30 am - pump increases speed to 2500 rpm until 9:30, when spillover shuts off and the system goes back to the Pool speed.

Use feature circuit to increase your pump speed to say 3000 for IFCS to work.. Call it "IFCS" You can call it anything you like, it is just the name you use.

ICFS... 4 pm until 6 pm... Pump will increase speed to 3000 rpm and then go back to the pool speed at 6 pm.. You can adjust this time so that the system cleans like it should and cycles through all the heads.. Personally, I'd run the IFCS when your electrical rates are the lowest...

Spillover 9 pm until 9:30 pm... Pump ramps up to 2500 until 9:30 pm when it goes back to pool speed.

You decide to use the spa.. just push the spa button.. the valves will move putting the system into the Spa mode.. the main pump will ramp us to 3540 until you turn off the spa.

The key to this whole sequence is that when the pump sees 2 or more speed inputs, it will only run the fastest one..


You can also make up other Feature circuits to make up more speeds if need.. As an example.. my wife and I like to just use our floats in the pool... this works best if there is a little lazy river action to the water.. So I have speed that we use to make the water in the pool swirl like a giant flushing toilet bowl.. I used to have a speed to help with skimming, but no longer use it, as my SWCG speed skims as well as turns my salt cell on.

Looks like things are coming along quite well...

If you want me, just 'call' me by adding an @ in front of my screen name,, Like this @Jimrahbe

Good luck with your project..

Jim R.