Need advice to get chemicals balanced

[PaulChell213]

We have a 11,000 gal plaster SWG pool and live in Brandon Florida.

Our issues started on 4/18 where we got our water tested at Leslies and they had us shock the pool. We went in because the water was getting a bit cloudy.
FC: 2.07
TC: 2.12
PH: 7.8
TA: 227 (High)
CH: 383
CYA: 5 (very low)
Phosphates: 802
Salt 4200

We told Leslies we wanted to run the super chlorinator cycle and they said it won't work because the chemicals are off. [Can anyone explain this to me - is it because the CYA was so low?]. We did not turn it on after their advise.

After shocking the pool with Leslies recommended "Green to Clean" followed by 3 rounds of Power Powder Plus (70% Calcium Hypochlorite Pool Shock) our levels were on 4/21:
FC: 1.26
TC: 210.02
PH: 8.1
TA: 176 (with a footnote that it was adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested TA)
CH: 361
CYA: 118
Phosphates: 700
Salt: 4500

Leslies then recommended to add dry acid to bring down the TA and add Chor Brite (Sodium Hypochlorite) for high CC, and of course their signature NoPhos. Then the levels looked like the following on 4/22:
FC: 15
TC: 15
PH 6.7
TA: 57 (with a footnote that it was adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested TA)
CH: 311
CYA: 136
Phosphates: 644
Salt 3974

We expressed concern over the worsening chemicals and they advised us to turn off the chlorinator completely and just wait a few days and monitor. We left the chlorinator off and just drained a small amount of water and replaced it as advised to reduce the CYA. Following that, I found it interesting that the following levels continue to rise and fear the pool is getting more out of control: PH, TA, CH, CYA, Phosphates, and Salt.
4/23
FC: 15
TC: 15
PH 7.1
TA: 63 (with a footnote that it was adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested TA)
CH: 3126
CYA: 139
Phosphates: 689
Salt 3745

4/25:
FC: 15
TC: 15
PH 7.7
TA: 95 (with a footnote that it was adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested TA)
CH: 363
CYA: 150
Phosphates: 914
Salt 4500

I am at a total loss on what to do to get the chemicals back in balance and i'm wondering whether following their advise to shock the pool on 4/18 was a mistake. Outside of draining a lot of water and replacing, I am not sure what to do and not sure I can trust advise from Leslies. I tried calling them and after being transferred 3 x and all the way to their corporate office, no one would give me any advise - they said they are not knowledgeable and I need to wait for their district manager to call me back which hasn't happened.

I am worried if these levels could be damaging the plaster or pipes. Any advise anyone can share on how to get these levels back in balance I will greatly appreciate. I would love to be able to swim in my pool again.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!
You need to follow the SLAM Process. To do that, you need a proper test kit. I suggest the TF-100/Pro or Taylor K2006C. A proper test kit is needed to get the accurate water chemistry results needed to follow the TFP protocols. You may have to drain/exchange a large volume of water to fresh IF the CYA level is correct. Wait on your test kit to arrive and you can get accurate data before moving forward on that.

While you are waiting on your test kit, add 5 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine / plain bleach to your pool each evening with the pump running. This will replenish the FC lost each day to the sun and also inhibit any algae in the water from growing further.
I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

 

[proavia]

Since you have a SWG - To add to what Marty suggested, the TF-100 Salt kit or TF-Pro Salt kit would be better as it includes the salt test reagents. Having the stirring device that comes with the TF-Pro is a game changer. It makes testing easier and more consistent.

 

[PaulChell213]

I've read the SLAM process but curious why you are advising it? We do not have any algae in the pool and since we did the shock on the 4/18 we do not have any cloudiness. I'm also curious the advise to add FC as the level is already at 15 and TC is also at 15. We have been checking the levels daily and the numbers are not changing so it doesn't appear we are losing FC.

Just got back from having the water tested again this morning after draining and replacing some water - will drain some more today.

4/26:
FC: 15
TC: 15
PH 7.9
TA: 110 (with a footnote that it was adjusted due to the effect of CYA on tested TA)
CH: 378
CYA: 138
Phosphates: 760
Salt 2861

 

[mknauss]

We went in because the water was getting a bit cloudy.

That is algae. You may have stunted it with the dump and pray, but it is still there.

You need a test kit. Please read the links provided.

 

[CreedenceTapes]

Pool-store testing is notoriously unreliable. The sooner you internalize that, the sooner you're going to balance your water.

If you're at all skeptical about it, take three samples of water that you gather at the same time to three different pool stores and compare the analyses they give you. It will take up a little of your time, but you'll be convinced for once and for all time that their testing is one step better than worthless. (Actually, their testing is negative value to you when it causes you to spend time and money on things that don't help.)

There's a natural tendency to think that pool stores are in the industry, so they must be good at pool chemistry. The reality is that they are in the industry because they're good at making money.

 

[PaulChell213]

That is algae. You may have stunted it with the dump and pray, but it is still there.

You need a test kit. Please read the links provided.

I am just not understanding the algae comment and why still to do the SLAM process. I have read the articles and links and I clearly don't understand as in the article it states:

When should I SLAM?​

If you have ANY of the following:​

1. Visible algae in your pool
2. CC level above 0.5 ppm
3. Loss of 1.0 ppm of FC overnight (see overnight chlorine loss test)

I don't have any of the above conditions: no visible algae - pool has been crystal clear since the 18th, CC is not above 0.5, and not losing any FC overnight. While I do not have at home tests, we have been getting the water professionally tested at the Leslies store each and every day and used multiple stores in case their equipment is off.

Is there something you're seeing in the levels that makes you think algae is there and not visible? I've spent over 9 hrs reading articles on this site so my asking questions is not due to a lack of wanting to learn on my part - i'm just clearly not understanding it well enough.

 

[Homebrewale]

You need to stay out of Leslies. There is no way your CH went from 311 to 3126 to 363 in a three day period. You can't trust their testing.

 

[mknauss]

CC is not above 0.5, and not losing any FC overnight.

How are you testing those data points?

 

[mknauss]

Regardless if you need to SLAM or not, you need a test kit to take control of your pool water chemistry. None of the data presented means anything. It is not accurate and obviously from its presentation, not repeatable.

Get your test kit, run a full set of tests, post them here, and we can help you move forward.

 

[SJPoe]

We told Leslies we wanted to run the super chlorinator cycle and they said it won't work because the chemicals are off. [Can anyone explain this to me - is it because the CYA was so low?]. We did not turn it on after their advise.

I'll explain to you why Leslies said don't run your SWG's Super Chlorinator.

"Green to Clean"

- Ammonium Sulphate - this makes Chloramines, which helps kill the algae if your CYA is too high (which it wasn't based on their own test). $35 ?

3 rounds of Power Powder Plus (70% Calcium Hypochlorite Pool Shock)

this is no different to you running your SWG...that they told you not to do...added some calcium tho. $10/bag ?
Plus it wont add CYA, which is odd, because now your CYA measures 110+, so where did it come from ?

recommended to add dry acid to bring down the TA

Aeration and a little Muriatic acid would do the same thing - let me guess..sold you the Dry Acid ? $20 ?

Chor Brite (Sodium Hypochlorite) for high CC

This is basically Dichlor - it wont reduce the high CC...but it will add CYA - $20 ?

their signature NoPhos.

Expensive solution to a problem they basically are creating. Algae can't eat phosphates if there aren't any algae to start with. Its what, $40/bottle ?

You didn't need any of that. Looks to me like you needed a little CYA, and turn the SWG up a bit.
This is EXACTLY why we recommend getting your OWN testkit, and measuring the levels YOURSELF.
I'm also guessing you probably spent way more in Leslies than a TF-Pro Salt test kit would have cost you.

 

[CreedenceTapes]

A properly executed SLAM practically guarantees that you'll kill enough of the algae floating in your water that it won't come back for as long thereafter as you maintain good water balance. The "dump and pray" method can kill off enough algae that your water appears clear (especially when compared to what you were seeing before), but might leave enough that you're going to have another problem sooner than you should.

That's why I think this advice is the best course of action:

While you are waiting on your test kit, add 5 ppm FC worth of liquid chlorine / plain bleach to your pool each evening with the pump running. This will replenish the FC lost each day to the sun and also inhibit any algae in the water from growing further.

NB: "Plain bleach" means nothing but water and sodium hypochlorite. Scented, low-drip, and "fabric friendly" formulations will put chemicals in your pool that you don't want in there. Most Walmart locations in the Tampa Bay Area sell Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid. It's plain 10% bleach at a fair price... by today's standards anyway.

 

[PaulChell213]

Pool Essentials Chlorinating Liquid. It's plain 10% bleach at a fair price... by today's standards anyway.

Thank you - this is very helpful. I feel like I need a decoder ring to translate what 'liquid chlorine' actually is when looking at product names. I also didn't find it on the list in the PoolMath app section of "effects of adding" - have to assume Bleach is used interchangeably with the term liquid chlorine.

 

[Bperry]

Thank you - this is very helpful. I feel like I need a decoder ring to translate what 'liquid chlorine' actually is when looking at product names. I also didn't find it on the list in the PoolMath app section of "effects of adding" - have to assume Bleach is used interchangeably with the term liquid chlorine.

Whatever you do, stay out of leslies from now on. Their testing is horribly innaccurate. An example is your calcium hardness testing. It went down after adding calcium hypo which increases calcium hardness. TFP will give you good advice but you do need to be able accurately test the water yourself.

 

[CreedenceTapes]

I also didn't find it on the list in the PoolMath app section of "effects of adding" - have to assume Bleach is used interchangeably with the term liquid chlorine.

Yes, they are one and the same. Sodium hypochlorite, no additives.