I'm not sure if the Pentair phone support person was correct. I'll call Polytec pools.
Update: I called Polytec. They didn't know and didn't have the installation manual. They asked me to contact Pentair.
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Need advice and questions about a residential indoor pool
- Thread starter tron
- Start date
Update: I called Polytec. They didn't know and didn't have the installation manual. They asked me to contact Pentair.
Are you and other folks recommending against Intellichem due to the issues with the pH or ORP sensor or are there other reasons too? I'm trying to understand if there are ways to avoid issues with Intellichem (I'm savvy with both electronics and chemistry) or is it a lost cause.
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Flying Tivo
TFP Guide
- Jan 24, 2017
- 3,100
- Pool Size
- 7500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Since ph additions tend to be cyclic and very predictable if you have a high TA or a SWG, a regular stenner type pump with timer or controlled bye the ET as i have is more than enough and less variable and much less expensive. I bought the intelliph initially but the control board lost its magic smoke very early, i decided to connect it to the ET via a relay that i control with a schedule. That was a 600 usd expense. If you buy a simple stenner and buy a plastic 5 gallon tank on ebay or amazon it will be a fraction of the cost and do the same thing.
Now for the ORP side, it only measures the a reduction potential which is affected by many Chems, FC,Ph,Cya, etc.. Which it doesn't actually measure FC alone. Since you need some CYA on an indoor pool(so FC does't feel harsh) this affects the orp readings. Some guys have made it work on indoor pools, but will take more of your time and effort. KISS principle applies.
A SWG, and a stenner for acid additions with automation, does not get any better.
good luck
Now for the ORP side, it only measures the a reduction potential which is affected by many Chems, FC,Ph,Cya, etc.. Which it doesn't actually measure FC alone. Since you need some CYA on an indoor pool(so FC does't feel harsh) this affects the orp readings. Some guys have made it work on indoor pools, but will take more of your time and effort. KISS principle applies.
A SWG, and a stenner for acid additions with automation, does not get any better.
good luck
So both SWG and Stenner pump (for acid) will run on timers? I will not have an intellichem at all for the SWG either? Thank you.
Flying Tivo
TFP Guide
- Jan 24, 2017
- 3,100
- Pool Size
- 7500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
SWG is a stand alone, but as a safety precaution we recommend to wire them together with the pump timer so they dont run while the pump is off. You can have different timers for each but only be active while the pump is active and not based on the timers.
As someone who has run an intellichem for about 10 months dosing acid and SWCG, I would NOT hesitate to use intellichem for pH dosing automation. In fact I wouldn't be without it. I have had ZERO problems with the system maintaining set point to within +/- .05. I haven't even had to clean the pH probe. I verify accuracy via drop test weekly and via calibrated pH meter when I think there's even a possibility of something off - there never has been. I simply don't get the strong objections here sometimes. Intellichem has safeguards for max acid dosing before lockout and you use half strength MA in the tank so the risk of massive overdose is greatly reduced even if the probe goes nuts.
Now, using the SWCG to dose chlorine using the ORP probe is another matter. This is not simple as the ORP is extremely sensitive to the overall redox balance in the pool water, not just the chlorine. These all vary by pH so don't even try to use ORP if you don't automate pH and keep it constant as that will easily dominate the ORP reading changes. I essentially run the SWCG open-loop and use the ORP reading to tell me if something drastic has changed.
I get away with running full drop tests once per week only. Could go longer with no maintenance if the skimmer basket didn't fill up. I'd imagine in an indoor pool this would be even better.
Now, using the SWCG to dose chlorine using the ORP probe is another matter. This is not simple as the ORP is extremely sensitive to the overall redox balance in the pool water, not just the chlorine. These all vary by pH so don't even try to use ORP if you don't automate pH and keep it constant as that will easily dominate the ORP reading changes. I essentially run the SWCG open-loop and use the ORP reading to tell me if something drastic has changed.
I get away with running full drop tests once per week only. Could go longer with no maintenance if the skimmer basket didn't fill up. I'd imagine in an indoor pool this would be even better.
Great! Is it easy to set up IntelliChem to only control pH, and set up IntelliChlor to run open loop without using ORP readings for chlorine generation (all with IntelliCenter)?
Flying Tivo
TFP Guide
- Jan 24, 2017
- 3,100
- Pool Size
- 7500
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
No objection at all, i just follow the KISS principle. Since Ph range is wide for a pool(7.2-8), you dont need equipment to keep a ph level on +/-0.05. As you said you need one part to work precisely for the other to work just OK.
Her is other ongoing thread:
Acid pump options - DIY - Stenner - or? (settled on Pentair Acid Tank w/Pump)
Thanks to a few current threads on acid automation I am doing some research on adding a acid dosing setup for my pool. I am not yet sure how all of this will work - I do have a basic idea of what I want and I think I know what I need to do IF I decide to do this say next spring... 1. Chose one...
www.troublefreepool.com
Sort of. pH control is closed loop by default so nothing to setup there.
To run the intellichlor "open-loop", I run the intellichem in "Dose by time" versus "Dose to setpoint". Then I set the on and off time for ORP dosing that I want. Right now I'm running about a 55% on time. I set the ORP setpoint to some high number that shuts off the dosing in order to prevent too much FC worst case. In my pool running the intellichlor actually drives ORP down while its on due, it seems, to the hydrogen generated in the SWCG cell. H2 drives ORP down. So I run a 15 minute off-time to allow some dispersal of the H2 and keep ORP from just plummeting. Its crude but it has successfully maintain my desired FC levels without intervention for months. Now that the daylight hours are beginning to get shorter, reducing chlorine demand, I can see the average ORP over the day is rising and I hit my upper ORP limit once every few days. My FC at that point has been about 10ppm (CYA 30).
My CH is 750 and rising. Pool water temps are 87-94 degrees right now. I can't run 7.2 to 8 pH and maintain negative LSI reliably. I like about -.1 or so to keep the SWCG clean. The particular pool I take care of isn't in my back yard so the fewer trips to take care of it the better. intellichem helps make that dream come true.
Necessary - probably not. Convenient and effective - yes.
skybloke
Member
I've run a similar sized indoor pool here in the UK for the past 15 years so thought I'd offer you my experience just in case you care to take "a step back" moment!
I say that because I believe a couple of important questions need addressing first. Are you physically able-bodied and how much use will the pool realistically get? You appear to be favouring a fully automated approach. That means more cost and more to go wrong.
I looked at a similar solution a few years ago in terms of chlorine and acid injection and in the end gave up. Why? Well I had to be honest and admit the pool doesn't actually get that much use and the effort needed to operate the cover and then manually add a few granules perhaps once or twice per week is hardly very demanding.... even for my aching 66 yr old body! Of course the choice is entirely yours but do remember cost v gain........... and keeping it simple generally works.
Whichever route you take good luck with your project.
I say that because I believe a couple of important questions need addressing first. Are you physically able-bodied and how much use will the pool realistically get? You appear to be favouring a fully automated approach. That means more cost and more to go wrong.
I looked at a similar solution a few years ago in terms of chlorine and acid injection and in the end gave up. Why? Well I had to be honest and admit the pool doesn't actually get that much use and the effort needed to operate the cover and then manually add a few granules perhaps once or twice per week is hardly very demanding.... even for my aching 66 yr old body! Of course the choice is entirely yours but do remember cost v gain........... and keeping it simple generally works.
Whichever route you take good luck with your project.
Deb Driesen
Well-known member
Hi, we are also putting in a small indoor pool. We're curious to know what you find out about HVAC and dehumidification for your pool room. We are currently in the permitting phase but planning on an 18k btu mini split for hvac and an 8 inch through the wall vent fan, also a large ceiling fan to keep air moving especially over windows. Its been suggested to use the winter setting which draws air up then disperses it outward and down the walls and windows.