Need a little help from the Pro's on a Saltwater Pool...

[RelaxIN]

I hope everyone is enjoying the summer season..!! I love the site and its rare that I need to post anything, but I could use a little help..

Pool Specifications:
Location: East Coast, in PA.
Pool: is a 28,000 gallon in-ground vinyl liner pool, with a SWG and Heater. Liner was replaced in April 2024
Pool Environment: No trees, full sunlight from 9 am on
Test Kit: Taylor K-2006 SALT (FAS-DPD Chlorine) - New Reagent as of 2024.
Pool Cleaner: Dolphin Nautilus CC Plus and he is using Pool Math
Pump: Pentair Superflo VS variable speed pump
○ Pump runs 12 hours a day
○ 8 - 10 am @3400 RPM's
○ 10 - 6 pm @1400 RPM's
○ 6 - 8 pm @2400 RPM's
Filter: CCP520 Pentair Clean & Clear Plus, Cartridge Filter - Installed in April 2024
SWG: Salt Water Generator (Last replaced in late 2022) - Intellichlor IC40 set to 100%
Heater: Aquacal Model: 225AHDSBPB Installed in April 2024
○ Temp is set to 82 F. Its been very sunny, hot & humid in this area, the average pool temp over the last week has been about 85 F.

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Hey guys, I need some help from the Pro's.!! I'm trying to help my neighbor out with his pool and we're running into some challenges with the chemistry and a slight algae and cloudiness issue. His setup is a little different than mind, so I just want to confirm some settings and readings from the pro's. He just recently had his liner replaced and made some upgrades to his system (See above for details) Upgrades include, new liner, cartridge filter and heater. SWG was replaced in 2022.

Some basic questions that I have are;
○ Given our area (east coast), and the location of the pool, (full sunlight and no trees) what is the "suggested" times and RPM's to run the pump given our setup. I'm seeing some posts on here suggesting to run it at 1400 RPM's 24x7..
○ I'm not familiar with saltwater pools. I'm confused by why the Free Chlorine numbers are so High, yet the pool has some light green algae and cloudiness. I'll post the pool math numbers below

What are your thoughts..?

 

[PoolStored]

Some basic questions that I have are;
○ Given our area (east coast), and the location of the pool, (full sunlight and no trees) what is the "suggested" times and RPM's to run the pump given our setup. I'm seeing some posts on here suggesting to run it at 1400 RPM's 24x7..
○ I'm not familiar with saltwater pools. I'm confused by why the Free Chlorine numbers are so High, yet the pool has some light green algae and cloudiness. I'll post the pool math numbers below

What are your thoughts..?

Running 24/7 at low speed is fine. Clean the filter. Turn pump down until the flow switch on the cell triggers the cell off. Add 200 RPM and run that speed.

Your FC being high just means that the cell %output, and pump runtime are longer than necessary.

The pool being green is the issue. Follow the SLAM process to clear the pool. Link-->SLAM Process

 

[Jimrahbe]

Relax,

If you have visible Algae, it means at some point the FC was much lower than it should have been for your CYA..

You need to kill the algae first, and then start using the SWCG.

To kill the algae, you will need to perform a SLAM.. As noted above..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[RelaxIN]

Running 24/7 at low speed is fine. Clean the filter. Turn pump down until the flow switch on the cell triggers the cell off. Add 200 RPM and run that speed.

Your FC being high just means that the cell %output, and pump runtime are longer than necessary.

The pool being green is the issue. Follow the SLAM process to clear the pool. Link-->SLAM Process

PoolStored... Thank you for taking the time out to get back to me, I do appreciate it..!!

Regarding your reply, please see my comments in RED

Running 24/7 at low speed is fine. Clean the filter. Turn pump down until the flow switch on the cell triggers the cell off. Add 200 RPM and run that speed. - I just cleaned the filter so we're good to go there. Forgive me, I wasn't clear on my question above. I know this has been discussed in the forum, but I can't seem to find a solid answer in my search, and maybe there isn't one. More specifically, my question is... Is there a Recommended or Preferred amount of hours and RPM's to run the VS pump, given the size of the pool, in order to get the best performance out of the system without impacting the electric bill too much..? or, is the 24x7 @1400 RPM approach the most optimal....? I'm Just curious to see what you guys have it set at.

Your FC being high just means that the cell %output, and pump runtime are longer than necessary. - I forgot to include this in my comments above. He has the SWG running for 11 hours @ 80% starting at 8 am. Since the FC is so high, should I have him reduce the runtime to say 5 hours and the percent to 40% to bring the numbers down for the time being...? Just asking.. I do plan on having him SLAM

The pool being green is the issue. Follow the SLAM process to clear the pool. Link-->SLAM Process - Yes, I will have him follow the SLAM process... Again, Thank you for your time and information..!!

 

[RelaxIN]

Relax,

If you have visible Algae, it means at some point the FC was much lower than it should have been for your CYA..

You need to kill the algae first, and then start using the SWCG.

To kill the algae, you will need to perform a SLAM.. As noted above..

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you Jim...!!

I am going to read up on the SLAM process and help him out. I made some additional comments below in my reply to PoolStored'd thread... I just want to make sure that my thought process is correct... Thanks again..!

 

[PoolStored]

Recommended or Preferred amount of hours and RPM's to run the VS pump, given the size of the pool, in order to get the best performance out of the system without impacting the electric bill too much..? or, is the 24x7 @1400 RPM approach the most optimal....? I'm Just curious to see what you guys have it set at.

Run your pump for a reason. Chlorinate, mix chemicals, heat, filter, skim.

I have a cover, so skimming isn't a big deal. I have SWCG, so I want to run 24/7 to keep a nice level FC. I have a heater, which requires 35gpm minimum, which is 2200 rpm. So on the days I heat, I turn the pump up to 2200rpm at night.

If you have a simple pool, run at (Cell flow off RPM + 200), 24/7. If you don't get enough skimming action, add a 1-2 hour window at a higher RPM that gives you skimming you need.

forgot to include this in my comments above. He has the SWG running for 11 hours @ 80% starting at 8 am. Since the FC is so high, should I have him reduce the runtime to say 5 hours and the percent to 40% to bring the numbers down for the time being...? Just asking.. I do plan on having him SLAM

I would run the cell 24/7 at a much lower output. You can use "effects of adding" in Pool math to get a consistent result between different settings.

If 11 at 80% raises FC, then run 24 hours at 30% and see how that works.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Relax,


Just to be clear...

If you have a VS pump, then you want to run as slow as you can, for as long as you can, that makes the amount of FC your pool will use each day.. This means a long run time and a very low SWCG output % The main reason to do this is because the cost to run a VS pump is next to nothing, at low RPMs, and constantly adding a little FC to your pool, helps keep the FC stable..

If you have single speed pump, then you want to run it for the shortest amount of time you can get away with, and still make the chlorine your pool needs.. This means a short run time, and very high SWCG output % The main reason to do this is the high cost of running a single speed pump.

Keep in mind that the cell itself does not care.. Running for one hour at 100% is the same as running for 10 hours at 10%.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[sande005]

And, with whatever pump run times are decided upon for economy vs function (skimming, pool cleaner, heating, etc.), just adjust the SWCG up or down as needed to keep the FC near your target (with a CYA of 80, that would be 11). He'll have to test periodically (every day or two) to see whether it is creeping up, going down, or holding steady and adjust the % as needed. After he gets it close, testing can reduce. I do mine about once per week. The % setting needed will change depending on the time of year and use (amount of sun, average swimmer load, rain, trees, salt adds, etc.)

All of this after the SLAM is complete, of course.

 

[RelaxIN]

Relax,


Just to be clear...

If you have a VS pump, then you want to run as slow as you can, for as long as you can, that makes the amount of FC your pool will use each day.. This means a long run time and a very low SWCG output % The main reason to do this is because the cost to run a VS pump is next to nothing, at low RPMs, and constantly adding a little FC to your pool, helps keep the FC stable..

If you have single speed pump, then you want to run it for the shortest amount of time you can get away with, and still make the chlorine your pool needs.. This means a short run time, and very high SWCG output % The main reason to do this is the high cost of running a single speed pump.

Keep in mind that the cell itself does not care.. Running for one hour at 100% is the same as running for 10 hours at 10%.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Jim,

Thank you for that information..! I was NOT aware of that as I do not have an SWG and VS pump. I will have him make the necessary adjustments. Correct me if I'm wrong, even though the pump will be running at lower RPM's 24/7, he needs to make sure the target FC range should still stay within specs (3-6ppm range). I'm asking because I see that Sande mentioned below with a CYA of 80, the FC ppm should be around 11. I'll have to play around with the Poolmath app to see what it says.

 

[RelaxIN]

And, with whatever pump run times are decided upon for economy vs function (skimming, pool cleaner, heating, etc.), just adjust the SWCG up or down as needed to keep the FC near your target (with a CYA of 80, that would be 11). He'll have to test periodically (every day or two) to see whether it is creeping up, going down, or holding steady and adjust the % as needed. After he gets it close, testing can reduce. I do mine about once per week. The % setting needed will change depending on the time of year and use (amount of sun, average swimmer load, rain, trees, salt adds, etc.)

All of this after the SLAM is complete, of course.

Sande, thank you for the reply..! Yes, he is very anal about testing every other day to get this corrected. Of course I will have him do the SLAM process first. Forgive me for asking, did you use the poolmath for the CYA and FC calculation...? I'm just trying to understand how you got to those numbers...

Again... I can't thank you guys enough for all of the great advice...!!

 

[sande005]

I used this chart, but PoolMath will track with the same information:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

 

[RelaxIN]

I used this chart, but PoolMath will track with the same information:

The Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship

Great... thank you for sending that along, very much appreciated... ! I'm going to have him start the SLAM process today. I have to read through the process myself as its been a while, but I think I recall that you CAN swing during the SLAM process as long as the FC is higher than minimum and below shock level...

 

[sande005]

Nope, he should do all it takes to consistently stay at the SLAM level - for a CYA of 80, from the chart, that would be 31. For some, that means initially testing every hour or two, to make sure at the beginning, then reducing the frequency of testing as he finds that the level maintains better. But likely still twice a day until SLAM is over. Drops happen, but larger just prolong the SLAM.

 

[crustypoppop]

subscribing to thread. There is a lot of good information here.

 

[RelaxIN]

Hey guys, just a quick follow-up. I read through the SLAM process and watched the Video and I have a few questions that I want to ask before he starts the SLAM process

1. Since he has a VS Pump, what RPM should he run the pump at during the SLAM process? PoolStored brought up a good point regarding the RPM's with a heater that I didn't think of. I think he has his heater to come on automatically when it gets below 82F and it requires a minimum 30GPM. Since the pump will be running 24x7 is 2200 RPM enough or should he bump the RPM's up...?. Once the SLAM process is over, I'm going to have him run it at the RPM's needed for the heater... does that make sense..?

2. In Step 1 of the video says to adjust the pH to 7.2, however, it ALSO says that pH levels are inaccurate when the FC level is over 10 ppm. As of today, his FC level are at 14.0 ppm and the CYA is at 70. Since its above 10 ppm and deemed inaccurate according to the video, should this be ignored and proceed to the next step, or should he still proceed with bringing the pH down to 7.2 first.. I'm only asking because the video says anything above 10ppm FC, that the pH will be inaccurate. Also, he informed me that he had to add another 1.5 inches of water. I had him take the readings AFTER he filled the pool back up.

3. Lastly, I'm just checking my math here... if his readings as of today are, FC=14.0ppm and CYA=70ppm. If I'm reading the CYA/FC Chart on TFP correctly, he needs to maintain 28pmm of FC, which is about 400 Fluid Ounces of chlorine at 12.5%. I'd rather ask twice than bleach-out his new liner...

Thanks again guys..!

 

[sande005]

1. Any speed. The heater has a flow switch that will shut it off if too low, so his minimum speed will be that that allows the heater to work. Higher speed during SLAM will help mix the Cl faster.

2. Since over 10, just proceed with the slam. The pH can be fixed afterwards

3. That's what I come up with when plugging it into PoolMath's "Effects of Adding".

 

[Orion7319]

I would just reinterate that once the pool is cleared up run the pump and the SWG 24/7. I would get algae as well dispite having everything in speck with pool math. Doesn’t take much time with a significant dip in FC to get an algae bloom. Running both 24/7 now and haven’t had an issue since. Also run it on the high side with your CYA. I try to keep mine between 7-9. We had a major storm last night and today the water has lost a bit of its sparkle. I know to just add 2ppm of liquid chlorine to be safe and the sparkle will return tomorrow.

 

[PoolStored]

1. Any speed. The heater has a flow switch that will shut it off if too low, so his minimum speed will be that that allows the heater to work. Higher speed during SLAM will help mix the Cl faster.

Most heaters to not have a flow switch, they have pressure switches. Many pressure switches go off below minimum flow for the heater. You can use a flow switch, you can use a flow meter, you can measure inlet and outlet temperature, or even in some cases ensuring the exit union not being "hot" to ensure adequate flow.

CL will mix fine on low speed, and low speed improves filtering.

 

[sande005]

Most heaters to not have a flow switch, they have pressure switches. Many pressure switches go off below minimum flow for the heater. You can use a flow switch, you can use a flow meter, you can measure inlet and outlet temperature, or even in some cases ensuring the exit union not being "hot" to ensure adequate flow.

CL will mix fine on low speed, and low speed improves filtering.

Oops - misstatement. Meant pressure switch!

 

[RelaxIN]

Everyone... Thank you so much for your input..!! its very much appreciated. There is a lot of good information and great people on this forum.

Just a quick status update:
1. The SLAM process has started. He has the pump running at 3000 RMP's (24x7 until he meets the SLAM criteria)
2. About 8pm, he added the recommended amount of chlorine to get the FC up to 28ppm. Of course we had some bad weather with high winds and rain come thru last night, so I'm sure that will impact the readings. We are supposed to get another round of storms later today (night) as well.
3. I'm going to have him take a FC & CYA reading later this morning to see where the levels are at and make the necessary adjustments if needed.
4. My plan is to have him take a reading twice a day, in the early AM and around 7 PM. I think that should be sufficient enough time

I don't believe there is anything else that we need to monitor at this time... please correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks again..!!