Near pool light tingling when pump is running

[Tallpines]

Hi,
I'm having some issues with our pool lights hope to get some info as to what might be going on here. The other day I found out that whenever I get close to both of the lights within a few inches, I felt minor shock. This happens only when the pump is running and even when there is no power to lights. It's normal when the pump is off. Not sure if it is related to a lightning strike we had a few months back that took out one light.
I opened the deck sw jbox and did not see the extra insulated #8 green wire coming from the conduit ( as discussed in some other threads) so light niche is not bonded with jbox. Would this be the problems? Or I might have a broken bond underground that is causing this when pump is running and any ideas on how to to detect that?
Thanks in advance for any info.
Cheers!
Doug

 

[BMerrill]

Are theses 120V or 14V LEDs/

 

[Tallpines]

These are 120V lights. Thank you!

 

[borjis]

Nobody should use the pool until the voltage leak is solved. Too dangerous to risk.

 

[ajw22]

First thing I would do is review the bonding connection at your pump and the electrical connections at the pump. Confirm that the electrical ground was not connected to the bonding wire. Check that all bonding connections are secure with no corrosion and connected using brass lugs.

Does your pump have a GFCI CB?

Read How to Verify That a Pool is Safe from Electric Shock – In Accordance with the National Electrical Code from Mike Holt.

 

[Tallpines]

First thing I would do is review the bonding connection at your pump and the electrical connections at the pump. Confirm that the electrical ground was not connected to the bonding wire. Check that all bonding connections are secure with no corrosion and connected using brass lugs.

Does your pump have a GFCI CB?

Read How to Verify That a Pool is Safe from Electric Shock – In Accordance with the National Electrical Code from Mike Holt.

Thanks for your input, all bonding seems to be in good working order. Pump is on GFCI CB and it never trips while this is going on. Lights were not on GFCI CB but i just installed a GFCI CB for lights. Had an electrician over yesterday and he said lights might be bad. He suggested that the whole light assys be replaced. I'm planning on that and see if that fixes the problems.

 

[Tallpines]

very cool video from Mike Holt , thanks so much ajw22.

 

[ajw22]

Thanks for your input, all bonding seems to be in good working order.

How did you assess that? If the bonding is perfect you should feel no electricty in the pool even if there is electricity in the water.

The purpose of the bonding grid to get everything you can touch to be equipotential so that your body is never the path for electricity. There is not equipotential between the light and the water and your body provides a path that you feel as the tingle.

Ever wonder how birds can sit on bare overhead electrical lines and not get electrocuted? It is because the bird is at equipotential with the line.

Pump is on GFCI CB and it never trips while this is going on.

That is a good sign the leakage is small if it is from the pump. A GFCI should trip with a leakage of 6 milliamps or greater. If your pump has less leakage it may cause the tingle and not trip the GFCI.

Lights were not on GFCI CB but i just installed a GFCI CB for lights.

Good.

Had an electrician over yesterday and he said lights might be bad. He suggested that the whole light assys be replaced. I'm planning on that and see if that fixes the problems.

I doubt that will fix things since you say you feel the tingle when the light is off and pump is on.

If anything I would replace your pump, although that is expensive.

 

[Tallpines]

How did you assess that? If the bonding is perfect you should feel no electricty in the pool even if there is electricity in the water.

I apologize for a slow in response, we spent most of the day yesterday trying to do continuity and NEV test for all bonding and equipment. We drained water to have access to light niche and measured voltage of metal light niche in ref to ground, there was 5-7V AC present there with minor shock when close to pool niche even when after all power to pool removed. So the stray voltage is there always now not just when the pump is running like i thought.
Any thoughts on where this voltage might be coming from? We turned off everything ( landscape light around pool, sprinklers etc) so there is absolute no power to near pool from the panel.

I called the utilities company today and they will send someone out to verify if there is any leaks from utilities.

 

[ajw22]

Stray voltage can be coming from anywhere around your property.

Have you read these threads?

Here is a thread that has been going on for 6 years trying to find the source of a tingle - A Slight Shock.

Here the voltage source was a streetlight connected to the house power line Bonding Issue In A Pool.

Could be from your property or a neighboring property or the nearby street. Could be from a well pump or a street light or a leaking electrical transformer.

There are always stray electrical currents around. If you have a good bonding grid around your pool none of them should shock a person. The bonding grid will keep everything around the pool at equipotential so no current will ever flow through a person.

 

[Tallpines]

Stray voltage can be coming from anywhere around your property.

Have you read these threads?

Here is a thread that has been going on for 6 years trying to find the source of a tingle - A Slight Shock.

Here the voltage source was a streetlight connected to the house power line Bonding Issue In A Pool.

Could be from your property or a neighboring property or the nearby street. Could be from a well pump or a street light or a leaking electrical transformer.

There are always stray electrical currents around. If you have a good bonding grid around your pool none of them should shock a person. The bonding grid will keep everything around the pool at equipotential so no current will ever flow through a person.

We found the problems which was pointed out by a utilities tech that our main panel's earth ground somehow did not have a good connection to ground(based on his readings with a meter) . Part of ground cable was inside wall that made it hard to detect. The shock went away after a new ground wire installed from main panel to ground rod. I guess it makes sense the shock caused by lack of ground/bond as you suspected all along.Thanks again for all the inputs.

 

[ajw22]

That was one of the easier ones to find.