Can anyone tell me if Baquacile kills Naegleria fowleri? I can’t find a direct answer online.
Naegleria fowleri
- Thread starter Icheerma
- Start date
- Jul 3, 2013
- 9,028
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool SJ-40
Welcome to TFP 
We do not recommend Baquacil, we do recommend Chlorine.. I have no idea if it will or will not kill it but Chlorine will kill it..
www.cdc.gov
In very rare instances, Naegleria infections may also occur when contaminated water from other sources (such as inadequately chlorinated swimming pool water or heated and contaminated tap water) enters the nose
We do not recommend Baquacil, we do recommend Chlorine.. I have no idea if it will or will not kill it but Chlorine will kill it..
Naegleria fowleri — Primary Amebic Meningoencephalitis (PAM) — Amebic Encephalitis | CDC
Naegleria fowleri is commonly called the “brain-eating ameba” because it can cause a brain infection when water containing the ameba goes up the nose. Learn more about prevention, symptoms, and treatment.
www.cdc.gov
In very rare instances, Naegleria infections may also occur when contaminated water from other sources (such as inadequately chlorinated swimming pool water or heated and contaminated tap water) enters the nose
Thanks, I’m new here. Can you give me the pros to using chlorine over Baquacil?
If my pool
Is currently treated with baquacil, how hard is it to switch over to chlorine?
If my pool
Is currently treated with baquacil, how hard is it to switch over to chlorine?
- May 3, 2014
- 58,681
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Convert Your Baqua Pool to Chlorine
This Step-by-step guide will help you transform your pool from Biguanide (Baquacil, SoftSwim hereafter referred to as Baqua) to chlorine. Read more
www.troublefreepool.com
- Jul 3, 2013
- 9,028
- Pool Size
- 15000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool SJ-40
As a reformed Baquacil user for over 15 years, I cannot recommend chlorine enough because the downsides of Baquacil are many:
-It is very expensive compared to chlorine.
-Baquacil is a sanitizer, not an oxidizer. You have to shock your pool weekly with hydrogen peroxide-based oxidizer, which can run over $10/gallon (1 gallon for every 10K gallons of water). The shock quickly dissipates like chlorine, although for more $$$, Baquacil will sell you an additional product called CDX that supposedly stabilizes the shock. As you can see...Baquacil is not exactly set it and forget it.
-You may have perfectly clear water for a few seasons, but there is a high probability that you will be plagued with pink slime/white water mold that will make your pool extremely cloudy. Your pool could be clear one day and the next day look milky white, unlike chlorine pools where you will gradually see algae if you're not keeping up with it.. The biofilms grow on every surface of the pool--including in the filter lines-- and can only be killed by tripling the oxidizer dose (for my pool, that was $90), scrubbing every square inch of the pool, and blowing out the filter lines by adding oxidizer to them and running the pump at very high pressure. The Baquacil itself is not effective in killing the biofilms (since it is not an oxidizer) nor preventing their build up. Brain eating amoebas love biofilms by the way. Pink slime/white water mold can grow in chlorine pools if your levels fall too low, but chlorine (which is a sanitizer and an oxidizer) kills it quickly and it's simple to just super shock your pool and it will clear in a day.
-I found that Baquacil--which "gums up" smaller particles to let the filter catch them--caused my DE filter to require filter grid cleaning very often (as often as every 2 weeks). Cleaning my Quad DE filter is a huge pain and quite messy, and DE is not exactly cheap. With chlorine, I clean the grids every 4-5 weeks.
So despite Baquacil's claim of being low maintenance due to not needing a daily dose, in the long run, it requires a lot of maintenance. In contrast, the only thing I put in my chlorine pool is chlorine, with an occasional dosage of CYA, PH up/down, and aklanity increaser. It takes 60 seconds to walk to my shed to do this.
My conversion took about 5 days for a 30K gallon pool.
-It is very expensive compared to chlorine.
-Baquacil is a sanitizer, not an oxidizer. You have to shock your pool weekly with hydrogen peroxide-based oxidizer, which can run over $10/gallon (1 gallon for every 10K gallons of water). The shock quickly dissipates like chlorine, although for more $$$, Baquacil will sell you an additional product called CDX that supposedly stabilizes the shock. As you can see...Baquacil is not exactly set it and forget it.
-You may have perfectly clear water for a few seasons, but there is a high probability that you will be plagued with pink slime/white water mold that will make your pool extremely cloudy. Your pool could be clear one day and the next day look milky white, unlike chlorine pools where you will gradually see algae if you're not keeping up with it.. The biofilms grow on every surface of the pool--including in the filter lines-- and can only be killed by tripling the oxidizer dose (for my pool, that was $90), scrubbing every square inch of the pool, and blowing out the filter lines by adding oxidizer to them and running the pump at very high pressure. The Baquacil itself is not effective in killing the biofilms (since it is not an oxidizer) nor preventing their build up. Brain eating amoebas love biofilms by the way. Pink slime/white water mold can grow in chlorine pools if your levels fall too low, but chlorine (which is a sanitizer and an oxidizer) kills it quickly and it's simple to just super shock your pool and it will clear in a day.
-I found that Baquacil--which "gums up" smaller particles to let the filter catch them--caused my DE filter to require filter grid cleaning very often (as often as every 2 weeks). Cleaning my Quad DE filter is a huge pain and quite messy, and DE is not exactly cheap. With chlorine, I clean the grids every 4-5 weeks.
So despite Baquacil's claim of being low maintenance due to not needing a daily dose, in the long run, it requires a lot of maintenance. In contrast, the only thing I put in my chlorine pool is chlorine, with an occasional dosage of CYA, PH up/down, and aklanity increaser. It takes 60 seconds to walk to my shed to do this.
My conversion took about 5 days for a 30K gallon pool.
- May 29, 2018
- 154
- Pool Size
- 13700
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-30 Plus
Sorry, haven't been on here for a few days.
Baqucil was great for the first few years. I wasn't trained well and didnt have many Baquacil resources other than my supplier of the product. When issues began with cloudy water, I was to add more Sanitizer, more Oxidizer. Use flocculant, let the pool swirl, shut off overnight, vaccum the white crappy silk mold -which vaccuumed to waste (yard) fill the pool and repeat. Then they started on the Baquacil Line Cleaner which never worked well for me. After several years of this routine, 2 months into a pool season (5 months tops), I had enough. Last year was it for me. We spent nearly $1,500-$2,000 on chemicals alone, not counting 15-20, 1hr round-trips to the pool store for testing and buying.
This year we had a surplus of stimulus tax money (thank all of you willing tax payers!
) and returned Cruise ship money since boat rides we offlimits last summer.... so we converted. Converted to chlorine 10-15 days, 1.5- 2 gallons 12.5% chlorine. Then removed Sand filter for new DE filter, added 5-6 bags of salt then installed SWG with timer. Added some CYA and all is well.
All I have done is test, add a little MA if needed to keep pH & TA in check and bumped the DE filter once in 4 weeks running. Crystal clear and smooth water.
If I had stuck with Baquacil this year, I would have had to buy and dump in $500 just in chemicals by this time.
Ok, this was long, sorry. To sum up my feelings for the product, I will fill my pool with dirt before I ever buy Baquacil again.
Baqucil was great for the first few years. I wasn't trained well and didnt have many Baquacil resources other than my supplier of the product. When issues began with cloudy water, I was to add more Sanitizer, more Oxidizer. Use flocculant, let the pool swirl, shut off overnight, vaccum the white crappy silk mold -which vaccuumed to waste (yard) fill the pool and repeat. Then they started on the Baquacil Line Cleaner which never worked well for me. After several years of this routine, 2 months into a pool season (5 months tops), I had enough. Last year was it for me. We spent nearly $1,500-$2,000 on chemicals alone, not counting 15-20, 1hr round-trips to the pool store for testing and buying.
This year we had a surplus of stimulus tax money (thank all of you willing tax payers!
) and returned Cruise ship money since boat rides we offlimits last summer.... so we converted. Converted to chlorine 10-15 days, 1.5- 2 gallons 12.5% chlorine. Then removed Sand filter for new DE filter, added 5-6 bags of salt then installed SWG with timer. Added some CYA and all is well.All I have done is test, add a little MA if needed to keep pH & TA in check and bumped the DE filter once in 4 weeks running. Crystal clear and smooth water.
If I had stuck with Baquacil this year, I would have had to buy and dump in $500 just in chemicals by this time.
Ok, this was long, sorry. To sum up my feelings for the product, I will fill my pool with dirt before I ever buy Baquacil again.
We are very clear that the sole reason Trouble Free Pool exists is to teach the Trouble Free Pool Care method. We don't teach Bacquacil pool management, mineral pool management, natural pool management, ozone pool management, or any of the other alternative pool management systems out there. You don't go to weight watchers and ask them why they don't teach the keto diet too, or tell them they should be more open to it since some people use that diet successfully even though it requires more money and time to implement.
- May 29, 2018
- 154
- Pool Size
- 13700
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-30 Plus
When water is balanced and you're not fighting the hidden white mold demon in the pool lines or in the sand filter...baquacil is a good product. We always enjoyed not having the chlorine smell or dryness. If the product wasn't so expensive and needing the attention it did, we might have stayed with it.
I used the Line cleaner once or twice. It wasn't always available. Even the deep clean (kill your grass acid) for the sand filter was used at the beginning and end of season, sometimes mid-season. I still would find Crud in the multiport valve.
If the water would be balanced but maybe a little hazy, I would sometimes add a little flocculant crystals (6-8 capfulls - a cup and a half) to the skimmer basket. It would help the filter and usually clear up the water.
My overall best experience was with the Baquacil AD system. The pump would run at 1am and add Oxidizer, Sanitizer & Algistat and Algicide every night. I would keep jugs of the stuff handy in case a boost was needed. During those years, never had issues like these past 4-5 when they stopped distributing in the boxed product for the AD system and discontinued it. Busy life and a short week of vacation would bloom green stuff or the white milky water
I used the Line cleaner once or twice. It wasn't always available. Even the deep clean (kill your grass acid) for the sand filter was used at the beginning and end of season, sometimes mid-season. I still would find Crud in the multiport valve.
If the water would be balanced but maybe a little hazy, I would sometimes add a little flocculant crystals (6-8 capfulls - a cup and a half) to the skimmer basket. It would help the filter and usually clear up the water.
My overall best experience was with the Baquacil AD system. The pump would run at 1am and add Oxidizer, Sanitizer & Algistat and Algicide every night. I would keep jugs of the stuff handy in case a boost was needed. During those years, never had issues like these past 4-5 when they stopped distributing in the boxed product for the AD system and discontinued it. Busy life and a short week of vacation would bloom green stuff or the white milky water
Let’s pop this thread back to answering this question and take other discussions elsewhere.
@JoyfulNoise
Can you respond here as I too am not sure.
OK...let's answer the question then. I believe this provides as many answers as can be found General Information | Naegleria fowleri | CDC It says that this organism is very unlikely to be found in any disinfected swimming pool, so it boils down to whether or not one considers a baqua pool to be "properly disinfected". Now THERE's a debatable subject I suppose. Using chlorine would be the preferred choice by someone truly worried about this, nor should such a person probably ever consider swimming in a lake or other freshwater sources.
Also, simply avoid getting water up your nose or in your ears. I never swim underwater anymore, partly due to having ear-related issues associated with tinnitus. Last thing I need is more fluid in my vestibular system!
Here's some more info..
"You cannot get the amoeba by simply swallowing the water while you swim, “but can be fatal if forced up the nose, as can occur during diving, water-skiing or other water activities,” according to North Carolina’s Department of Health and Human Services.
My thought would be to not worry about it save for swimming in some pool that is noticeably scummy or hasn't been filtered or chemically treated. The chances of getting fowleri in a pool otherwise are probably just about nil. Geez...to think of all the times I used to go tubing in mine holes (remnants of a slate industry) near my parents' place. Stream came in and out on both ends, but still, was hardly at times what you'd call moving water.
This topic actually came up on TFP at one point... Naegleria fowleri, the brain eating amoeba
Also, simply avoid getting water up your nose or in your ears. I never swim underwater anymore, partly due to having ear-related issues associated with tinnitus. Last thing I need is more fluid in my vestibular system!
Here's some more info..
"You cannot get the amoeba by simply swallowing the water while you swim, “but can be fatal if forced up the nose, as can occur during diving, water-skiing or other water activities,” according to North Carolina’s Department of Health and Human Services.
My thought would be to not worry about it save for swimming in some pool that is noticeably scummy or hasn't been filtered or chemically treated. The chances of getting fowleri in a pool otherwise are probably just about nil. Geez...to think of all the times I used to go tubing in mine holes (remnants of a slate industry) near my parents' place. Stream came in and out on both ends, but still, was hardly at times what you'd call moving water.
This topic actually came up on TFP at one point... Naegleria fowleri, the brain eating amoeba
Last edited:
- May 23, 2015
- 24,474
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
This thread has gotten sidetracked with a lot of answers to questions NOT asked by the OP. Please try to avoid hijacking.
To answer the ORIGINAL question - the answer is it depends on how careful you are at keeping the sanitizer level at appropriate levels to kill n. Fowleri
This paper discusses the effects of the biguanides CHX (chlorhexidine) and PHMB (Baquacil) on different species of amoeba that are known to cause corneal infections in contact lens wearers. While this is not specific to n. Fowleri , amoebas tend to follow similar disinfection patterns. It was found that CHX was more effective than PHMB at sub-lethal doses at inhibiting the lifecycle of these parasites. Sub-lethal doses of PHMB for the amoeba studied was 25-50 ppm. Typically speaking, most Baquacil pools don't maintain PHMB levels very consistently and they often fall below the 25ppm lower limit. Most PHMB dosing schedules will rarely see sanitizer levels above 12.5ppm and so one can certainly believe that the PHMB in Baquacil pools is being maintained at a sub-lethal level for amoeba.
Does that mean n. Fowleri will be present in a baquacil pool? Not necessarily. n. Fowleri usually finds it's way into water bodies through exposure of the water to environmental debris like soils or mud being dragged into the pool.
However, a properly chlorinated swimming pool, especially saltwater pools, will be lethal environments to n. Fowleri. These amoeba typically only show up when chlorine levels are non-existent or not properly maintain. I would say that Baquacil pools, when compared to chlorinated pools, are certainly at a higher risk for n. Fowleri infestations but all bodies of water are susceptible to dangerous levels of bacteria and parasites if they are not adequately maintained.
The choice of using Baquacil versus chlorine is up to you but a quick read of the Baquacil forum will show you that most people who switch away from Baquacil to chlorine are much happier and wealthier ...
I found this abstract from the New Zealand Journal of Marine and Freshwater Research. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288330.1983.9516004
Abstract
The amoebicidal properties of Baquacil, a 20% solution of polyhexamethylene biguanide hydrochloride (PHMB), was tested against 4 strains of Naegleria and 2 of Acanthamoeba in axenic conditions at 25, 30, and 37°C. In the control cultures all the strains grew equally well at 30°C, whereas the non‐pathogenic strains of Naegleria (Pl200f) and Acanthamoeba (1501) grew best at 25°C, and the pathogenic strains of Naegleria (MsM, MsT, and Northcott) and Acanthamoeba (A‐1) showed stimulated growth at 37°C. At 37°C MsM, MsT, and Northcott respectively showed 2.25, 1.5, and 0.0% survival after 30 minutes’ exposure to 50 mg L‐1 Baquacil. The survival rates of Pl200f, A ‐ 1, and 1501 were respectively 0.0, 1.5, and 0.75%. At 30°C the same treatment produced the survival rates MsM, 7.5%; MsT, 3.0%; Northcott, 0.0%; Pl200f & A ‐ 1, 3.0%; and 1501, 3.0%. At 25°C the survival rates were all zero with the exception of MsT (2.25%) and 1501 (1.5%). Increasing the exposure time to 240 minutes against strains with high survival rates after 30 minutes’ exposure showed N. fowleri (MsM) to have the greatest potential to survive Baquacil. Increasing the initial Baquacil concentration at an exposure time of 30 minutes showed only N. gruberi (Pl200f) able to survive 80 mg L‐1. Isolation of resistant strains showed N. fowleri (MsM,br3) and (MsT,br1) to be almost totally resistant to Baquacil.
Based on this research the answer would be Bacquacil does not kill Naegleria-Fowleri
Abstract
The amoebicidal properties of Baquacil, a 20% solution of polyhexamethylene biguanide hydrochloride (PHMB), was tested against 4 strains of Naegleria and 2 of Acanthamoeba in axenic conditions at 25, 30, and 37°C. In the control cultures all the strains grew equally well at 30°C, whereas the non‐pathogenic strains of Naegleria (Pl200f) and Acanthamoeba (1501) grew best at 25°C, and the pathogenic strains of Naegleria (MsM, MsT, and Northcott) and Acanthamoeba (A‐1) showed stimulated growth at 37°C. At 37°C MsM, MsT, and Northcott respectively showed 2.25, 1.5, and 0.0% survival after 30 minutes’ exposure to 50 mg L‐1 Baquacil. The survival rates of Pl200f, A ‐ 1, and 1501 were respectively 0.0, 1.5, and 0.75%. At 30°C the same treatment produced the survival rates MsM, 7.5%; MsT, 3.0%; Northcott, 0.0%; Pl200f & A ‐ 1, 3.0%; and 1501, 3.0%. At 25°C the survival rates were all zero with the exception of MsT (2.25%) and 1501 (1.5%). Increasing the exposure time to 240 minutes against strains with high survival rates after 30 minutes’ exposure showed N. fowleri (MsM) to have the greatest potential to survive Baquacil. Increasing the initial Baquacil concentration at an exposure time of 30 minutes showed only N. gruberi (Pl200f) able to survive 80 mg L‐1. Isolation of resistant strains showed N. fowleri (MsM,br3) and (MsT,br1) to be almost totally resistant to Baquacil.
Based on this research the answer would be Bacquacil does not kill Naegleria-Fowleri
Last edited:
- May 23, 2015
- 24,474
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It’s also important to consider that pathogenic n. Fowleri can form cysts (dormant phase) that are highly resistant to disinfection. In that respect, n. Fowleri can act in similar ways to Giardia. So while disinfecting agents can always be tweaked to kill the active form of the parasite, there’s still other parts of the organisms lifecycle that gives it cover. Biguanides tend to be very ineffective against cystic parasites.
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