My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

[funandsun]

Re: My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Is there a way to "bleed" that air from the view skimmer? (with the pump off)
I know "cheapo" intex pumps have an air bleed cap (since AGP owners like (have) to mess with our equipment WAY more then IG owners)

When I remove the lid, water flows out of the pump through the basket. When I put the lid back on, it looks great, but as you know and I learned, air is coming in because it instantly starts with the whirlwind and air. I don't see a bleed off anywhere post that basket. I recall our old cartridge had a bleed valve where we could get the air out of the filter housing.

I gotcha on the turning no impact, that too was my thought.. actually it went more like "hey dummy, if that o ring is trashed, turning ain't gonna do anything, you need to get your eyes on it and most likely replace both of them", I can not be sure if those were my exact words but that was the implication. lol

That lead to the "lets turn off the pump, shut off the water and see them", a crisp snap sound immediately followed.

 

[splashpad]

Re: My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

When I remove the lid, water flows out of the pump through the basket. When I put the lid back on, it looks great, but as you know and I learned, air is coming in because it instantly starts with the whirlwind and air. I don't see a bleed off anywhere post that basket. I recall our old cartridge had a bleed valve where we could get the air out of the filter housing.

Bummer, yup that's exactly what I was referring to

I gotcha on the turning no impact, that too was my thought.. actually it went more like "hey dummy, if that o ring is trashed, turning ain't gonna do anything, you need to get your eyes on it and most likely replace both of them", I can not be sure if those were my exact words but that was the implication. lol

That lead to the "lets turn off the pump, shut off the water and see them", a crisp snap sound immediately followed.

I probably shouldn't, but yes, I ROFL
IF the union WAS "just" loose, tightening it WOULD be the fix, so you eliminated that being the problem (+1!)

 

[funandsun]

Re: My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Bummer, yup that's exactly what I was referring to


I probably shouldn't, but yes, I ROFL
IF the union WAS "just" loose, tightening it WOULD be the fix, so you eliminated that being the problem (+1!)

I would be disappointed if no one was laughing while reading this. It is pretty funny.

So feel free to laugh and cry with me. It's only plumbing and sooner or later a solution will be found.

I will wait until this evening when I bump my chlorine again and I will turn filter to recirculate and re-install the zip tied duda bags for overnight filtration.

I hope NONE of you ever have to deal with this.

I laugh because I know me, I know how unprepared and incapable I am for this and it is hilarious that I am even trying. That said, I will take pics and keep posting them so we have a record and who, what & when.

I will beat my pool into submission with effort or budget. Sounds like I am talking about my teenagers, dear goodness!

Cheers everyone and thank you for following along,

 

[funandsun]

Re: My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/57697-Centrifugal-Pump-Priming-and-Cavitation-Videos

Great videos in this thread. The first post has 3 videos, the last one is on Cavitation, the presenter mentions it sounds like rocks.. yes, that is what I heard in my sand filter the other day when pressure rose to 14psi.

He mentioned rocks, that vividly reminded me of the sound. Yes in my head (knowing there is sand in there) I pictured sand pelting against a window.

Rocks is a better description. It was so crisp and clear. Scary is what it was.

It was not a good sound.

 

[splashpad]

So do you have a time for your "pool dude" (that's funny FWIW) coming to check out the air leak issue this week?

 

[funandsun]

Well, this certainly cleared up where any upgrades in Filtration will end up WHEN not IF we convert from Sand.

Great read for filtration from one of the Legends around TFP. More about equipment and maintenance but the result from experience is priceless.

https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/112012-Guts-of-QuadDE-Filter

 

[splashpad]

Well, this certainly cleared up where any upgrades in Filtration will end up WHEN not IF we convert from Sand.
Great read for filtration from one of the Legends around TFP. More about equipment and maintenance but the result from experience is priceless.
https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/112012-Guts-of-QuadDE-Filter

I didn't get past the pictures, lol, give me a barrel of sand any day And that's what's great, to each their own!
(this is an opnion only based on personal experience with a SMALL sand filter which upgraded the "fake" (undersized) included filter cartridge)

 

[funandsun]

So do you have a time for your "pool dude" (that's funny FWIW) coming to check out the air leak issue this week?

No, believe it or not, I will secure new o-rings and this handle and will dive into it myself most likely. I mean realistically, unscrewing unions and replacing o rings shouldn't be a huge ordeal. Will be more so if I still don't resolve the issue. Then I will certainly be getting him over here.

Pool dude because he is a relocated Florida pool guy who I happened to meet. But if you think of Spicoli and then add common sense you get "pool dude".

He took kind to me when he came to open our pool last year and when he went to add Algaecide and Shock I stopped him, told him I had a "new method" I was looking to try out, that got his attention and he asked if I cared to share what I was up to, so I went on to talk about CYA + Liquid Chlorine (SLAM for all of us).

He asked for pics as I went along which I sent to him. He told me this year when he came to open after winter, "I didn't know how that would turn out, but you sure had it sparkling". So we have agreed, I will take care of the water, he takes care of mechanical.

 

[splashpad]

No, believe it or not, I will secure new o-rings and this handle and will dive into it myself most likely. I mean realistically, unscrewing unions and replacing o rings shouldn't be a huge ordeal. Will be more so if I still don't resolve the issue. Then I will certainly be getting him over here.

Excellent (I was hoping so, but didn't know how far things had gotten there, lol, or I misread)

He took kind to me when he came to open our pool last year and when he went to add Algaecide and Shock I stopped him, told him I had a "new method" I was looking to try out, that got his attention and he asked if I cared to share what I was up to, so I went on to talk about CYA + Liquid Chlorine (SLAM for all of us).

He asked for pics as I went along which I sent to him. He told me this year when he came to open after winter, "I didn't know how that would turn out, but you sure had it sparkling". So we have agreed, I will take care of the water, he takes care of mechanical.

That's awesome!

 

[Brittk27]

Your welcome funandsun, as frustrating as it’s been for us to pin point the problem, maybe it can help someone else experiencing the same issues.

I will try to attach a pic of where our leak was. (I’ve never posted in a forum, so I’m not sure how to use the features.)
in our case, the leak was the skimmer line.

I used a water hose to provide a steady stream of water and moved it slowly along both the of suction lines and found the spot pretty quickly. Once I found the spot the pump basket immediately filled up with water and there were no more bubbles.

One more thing I forgot to mention in my previous post was that we had been hearing a strange sound coming from inside our sand filter as well. The site glass also had an air bubble in it too. All of that stopped once we fixed the leak.

Its amazing how something so small can cause so many other issues.

 

[kellyfair]

Oh Fun. I’m not laughing; I feel genuinely sad at all you are going through. I can tell you that the sand filter should not sound like it is sandblasting, which is the first thing I thought of when you mentioned that it sounds like sand hitting a window.

i have a lot less water than you, but I can tell you that when I had my swamp, it took just a few days to go from cloudy to pristine, just with the sand filter, no bags, no floc or clarifier, etc. That’s why I have been concerned with your SLAM and Mad’s too.

I dont know anything about the Hayward sand filters, so gonna read up on them now. But I do believe that a sand filter that is properly sized, properly connected with proper gaskets and such should have been able to clear your pool without driving you crazy, so something is definitely wrong.

 

[funandsun]

Oh Fun. I’m not laughing; I feel genuinely sad at all you are going through.

Oh kellyfair, don't!

Without my struggles I would never appreciate my blessings!!

I Got a lot of talented eyes looking at this, it will get sorted.

Thank you for your positive vibes!! You do a lot of good for people and it makes a difference!!

===========
Yes, I hope getting this sorted out will at least get me back to par with the sand. I would like to give it a fair assessment.

I just think 20 days is not going to work for me, so hopefully that is not normal.

 

[funandsun]

I am going to go run my FC test, make whatever adjustment is needed, but filter on recirculate, re-install the duda bags, and then I thought to work with my pump speeds, see if/where the speed needs to be to reduce the air intake. Maybe by reducing the suction power, I may be able to reduce the negative impact.

Short term fix and fun to play with variable speed pumps.

Will report back shortly.

 

[splashpad]

Hoping for some change overnight for you!

 

[funandsun]

Hoping for some change overnight for you!

I appreciate the good vibes!!

Ok, you know those Chevy Chase movies, lovable character but just can't catch a break?

I don't know about the lovable part but I am here to tell you, man o man.

Replaced MPV last year (yes, you know I have the pics), followed the rules, only turn the same direction. First one lasted 2-3 seasons, this one.. 1 season. Put it on recirculate, yep, the dreaded slow flow of water out the exhaust pipe. doesn't happen on filter, winterize, et all any of the other ones, just recirculate. Of course.

Turned the pump speed down to 1300 (don't know if that is rpms or watts, don't really care. it's at 1300 whatever it means) duda bags are down, very few bubbles coming out as seen in pic attached below. Very little to no disturbance in the pump basket or sand filter housing (as far as my hearing goes).




So, MPV failure after a handful of turns in same direction. I think we are all clear where this is headed right?

Gonna let the duda bags do their thing overnight, had a massive amount of pollen fall today, several times when I was outside could just see clouds of it coming off the trees and now the pool has yellow powder crud on top of the water and around the edge.

Gonna take a break from this issue, and calm down.

If that sand filter thinks for 1 minute that I or anyone in this household is going to throw 1 more cent at it, welp, I would rather Glue My Hands To My Feet than spend 1 more minute much less..... ok ok ok, i said calm, deep breath innnn....... exhale... deep breath innnnnn..... exhale.

 

[kellyfair]

I don't know enough about filters to say for sure, but I'm wondering if your sand filter is too small for your pool. Obviously there's something very wrong with it if it is still making the sandblasting noises, and now you have this MVP problem (it sounds like it thinks it is supposed to backwash when you have it on recirculate), but in what is probably a very unscientific comparison, my pool has less than half the amount of water your pool has, and yet your filter holds what - 150 pounds of sand? Mine holds 100. I remember Mad saying his holds 300. Again, I have no idea if that is the issue or not, but you are having way more problems with your sand filter than pretty much anyone I've ever heard about...

Also, what HP is your pump?

 

[splashpad]

I appreciate the good vibes!!
Ok, you know those Chevy Chase movies, lovable character but just can't catch a break?
I don't know about the lovable part but I am here to tell you, man o man.
...
Gonna take a break from this issue, and calm down.

That sounds like my DH to a T! Hang in there, you WILL be all the wiser (for better or worse) once this is all sorted out!

Replaced MPV last year (yes, you know I have the pics), followed the rules, only turn the same direction. First one lasted 2-3 seasons, this one.. 1 season. Put it on recirculate, yep, the dreaded slow flow of water out the exhaust pipe. doesn't happen on filter, winterize, et all any of the other ones, just recirculate. Of course.
...
So, MPV failure after a handful of turns in same direction. I think we are all clear where this is headed right?
...
If that sand filter thinks for 1 minute that I or anyone in this household is going to throw 1 more cent at it, welp, I would rather Glue My Hands To My Feet than spend 1 more minute much less..... ok ok ok, i said calm, deep breath innnn....... exhale... deep breath innnnnn..... exhal.

hmmm, maybe.. hopefully.. it just might need realigned? (not personally familiar with full MPV repair/replacement, yet) yeah when there are problems, it's hard to like the equipment!

Turned the pump speed down to 1300 (don't know if that is rpms or watts, don't really care. it's at 1300 whatever it means) duda bags are down, very few bubbles coming out as seen in pic attached below. Very little to no disturbance in the pump basket or sand filter housing (as far as my hearing goes)... Gonna let the duda bags do their thing overnight, had a massive amount of pollen fall today, several times when I was outside could just see clouds of it coming off the trees and now the pool has yellow powder crud on top of the water and around the edge.

RPMs The bags look great! ... maybe your tightening did something after all? I would still re-seat the unions once you feel up to it (with checked or replaced o-rings). Air should not be entering the system. Period. (but you know that)

 

[funandsun]

I don't know enough about filters to say for sure, but I'm wondering if your sand filter is too small for your pool. Obviously there's something very wrong with it if it is still making the sandblasting noises, and now you have this MVP problem (it sounds like it thinks it is supposed to backwash when you have it on recirculate), but in what is probably a very unscientific comparison, my pool has less than half the amount of water your pool has, and yet your filter holds what - 150 pounds of sand? Mine holds 100. I remember Mad saying his holds 300.

Not sure his brand, I suspect hayward but I don't recall from his signature.

Mine is a Hayward S180T which yes I agree is wonderfully undersized for our pool

you are having way more problems with your sand filter than pretty much anyone I've ever heard about...

Tell me about it. lolol

I appreciate that others seem to have no issues, but in my case, whether my unit was built on a Monday, I don't know how to use it, my expectations are too great or any # of other explanations, this thing is headed to the scrap yard. pronto.

Also, what HP is your pump?

It is a pentair Superflo VS, it is variable so I can set it any where in its range. More than enough for our needs and up to 3 unique timeframes where I can adjust it to run faster or slower or not at all.

I have a lot of suspicions at this point. Was this cavitating happening last year, I can't rule that out.

Watching several of the videos, I believe it was happening, to a smaller degree, but when I saw the video of the pump basket window and there was no air, I do not recall that visual memory, I recall seeing bubbles and swirling, also, I recall seeing some bubbles out of the return, not as many as this year but I do recall them.

I know it did not happen while the previous pump was in place. The basket was always clear and when I saw it in a video I had that "oh yeah" moment.

=============
So 3 known knowns

1) I have a suction side air leak

2) I have a Desire to improve my filtration system
A) Change media type (from sand to cartridge)
B) Upgrade square footage capacity of any media type selected

3) I have an MPV failure (for the 2nd time in 1 year)
=============

Looking at the title that Texas Splash gave this thread, everything in that cries that I am trying to improve the performance of my Filtration system.

It is one thing to compliment (add duda bags, DE, Cellulose Fiber) but at this point had recirculation worked, I would have circumvented the entire filtration system and was interested in doing so.

=============

I have put out a text to "the dude", he lives about an hour away, he is usually in my area a couple of times a week, so when he stops by, we are going to sort all of this out.

I am so appreciative for everyone here on TFP.

Thoughts and considerations are welcomed.

 

[madyogi]

I hadn't been able to catch up with this scenario for a while. Definitely sounds like Clark Griswold over here. My filter is a hayward s244, and yes, it hold 300 lbs, just poured in every bit of that yesterday! Hope your "dude" can shed some light on things.

I'll definitely keep checking in on things, fun!

 

[RobertScalchi]

Re: My SLAM w/ Duda Bags & Fiber Clear

Trying to follow along in this thread looks like you got multiple issues. Vacuum pressure leaks air leaks pump cavitation crappy valves, those valves typically freeze up on me and the handles break off the ball joints every 3 years. I always keep an extra handy just in case. I've seen that old Pentair pump basket on a friend's pool. I hope you get it all sorted out and get your water head and prime back.

- - - Updated - - -

Coming back to the stainless steel hose clamps ideal makes completely stainless steel clamps with a worm gear and screw in part won't rust. Typically the turnkey ones the band is only stainless steel