My headaches, an introduction...

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KCbugs

KCbugs

Member
Aug 1, 2022
8
Kansas City, MO
Pool Size
13500
Surface
Vinyl
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
So I'm a total newb to pool culture and pool care. My wife and I moved from our old home 2 years ago, and bought a pool. Low and behold, it only took 2 years, but it was finally installed a couple of weeks ago. Pool was filled in about 36 hours.

I took the initial sample to the pool retailer I used, and was given the standard treatments of stabilizer, shock, chlorine, etc. Followed the instructions, and for the last 2 weeks have had nothing but headaches trying to get the chemistry to abide by the recommended levels.

Here's where I am currently with levels:
FC: 8ppm
pH: 7.5
TA: 148
CH: 130
CYA: 50

It's the "TA" that's getting me. The pool store I bought the pool from says anything between 80 and 150 is fine, so I'm good with TA. They are telling me that the FC is WAY too high, and needs to be at 3ppm. Pool math tells me the opposite. It says my FC is fine, but my TA is WAY too high. I'll be honest, in that I'm not sure who to trust. The industry standards seem to disagree pretty greatly with the recommended numbers I'm seeing on Pool Math. Either way, my water is crystalline, and my wife is chomping at the bit to dive in...

Any help would be appreciated!
Cheers,
Jeff
 
Welcome! Your FC and CYA are good. Your TA is a little high. Buy a quality test kit and do your own testing. First of all pool stores can give varying and questionable results, and they are in the business of selling you things. Pool math is trying to sell you nothing except maybe a donation. You will find most people, including industry professionals know a lot less than they think they do about pool chemistry.
 
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Welcome to TFP! :wave:

Your levels are fine. If you manage your pH, your TA will come down over time. Just keep pH in the 7s.

KCbugs said:
I'll be honest, in that I'm not sure who to trust.
Click to expand...

Trust

Just an endorsement of TFP for newbies, from a newbie

Hello everyone, I just wanted to post a message for anyone new to the site or just exploring. At first you might think, "Does all of this really work?", "This is too complicated for me", and/or "My local pool store will help more than this site". As someone who was new to this site last year...
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Proof in the pudding:

How Clear is TFP Clear? Let's See (Pics Only Please).

How clear should my water be? A very common question. Here is mine on a calm morning where I could finally vacuum. Yes I know, I'm still manually vacuuming. It took me 7 years to finally get an SWG, I'm working on a robot. :) So now let's see your water clarity.
www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com

Ask ANY questions you have!

Joining Welcome Home GIF
 
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Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I do understand that the pool stores like to make a buck.

I should have mentioned, the numbers I'm showing are from my Taylor test kit. They don't disagree with the Pool Store analysis. I'm really more concerned about the extreme differences in recommendations.
 
KCbugs said:
Thank you for the welcome! Yes, I do understand that the pool stores like to make a buck.

I should have mentioned, the numbers I'm showing are from my Taylor test kit. They don't disagree with the Pool Store analysis. I'm really more concerned about the extreme differences in recommendations.
Click to expand...
If you explore a little bit, you will see that we not only explain the What, we explain the WHY. Good start here -->Pool Care Basics
 
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mknauss said:
Welcome to the forum.
Explain your testing method to achieve a TA of 148. Hard to get that result using a proper test kit.
Click to expand...
Hi Marty!

The 148 was from the pool store analysis. My Taylor test gave me 15 drops (x10) = 150. It seems reasonable that the Taylor test and the pool store analysis agree, so I left it at 148.

Thanks for the welcome!
 

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You mentioned TA being way too high. TA being high just means that your pool will want to outgas CO2. This leads to pH rise.

As you add muriatic acid, you will lower your TA and pH. With natural outgassing of CO2, your pH will rise, but TA will not change. Over time your TA will come down. Just manage pH.

Here is one off those WHY pieces that give you a reason to believe. We want you to understand what you are doing to your pool and why...

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
 
PoolStored said:
You mentioned TA being way too high. TA being high just means that your pool will want to outgas CO2. This leads to pH rise.

As you add muriatic acid, you will lower your TA and pH. With natural outgassing of CO2, your pH will rise, but TA will not change. Over time your TA will come down. Just manage pH.

Here is one off those WHY pieces that give you a reason to believe. We want you to understand what you are doing to your pool and why...

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com www.troublefreepool.com
Click to expand...
Thanks again! The pH has been fine for 2 weeks, actually has dropped a bit. Measurement after the initial shock/treatments after filling was at 8.0, and TA was at 180. I guess it's ok. I'll just keep an eye on it. We did have rain for 2 days after the pool was installed, which messed with the chemistry a bit. Chlorine dove to near 0, then shocked and it's been between 5 and 10 (on my test kit) ever since.
 
Like you, I was a complete noob when we built our pool. Luckily, my builder gave me a Taylor test kit and showed me how to properly test. I still relied on pool store testing until, also like you, I realized that my tests yielded the same results as theirs, so I slowly weaned myself off of their testing. Then I found TFP! I now have a much better understanding of the “why” behind the “what/how”. After 15 years, the 2 primary tests I pay frequent attention to are FC/CC and pH. The others really don’t change frequently. And I keep FC in the 7-8 range, which is 10% of my CYA - a recommendation I received from TFP Experts.
 
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Always follow this chart -->FC/CYA Levels

For CYA of 50, your target is 6-8 FC. NEVER let it get below 4. I would even tell you to never let it get below 5 until you learn your pool better. I always keep it +1 over top of the range (would be 9 in your case), as I can lose up to 5.5ppm in June/July with swimmers. Your daily FC demand will vary with the season. As you get to know what YOUR pool needs, maintaining it will become a walk in the park.
 
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Another tip. You can raise your FC BEFORE a big swim day to stay at target during the day. You can test and add chlorine DURING a big swim day to stay at target. I did testing in the morning and evening on different types of days. Cover on all day (lose about 1.5), Cover on most of the day, me swimming I lose 2.5-3, Cover off most of the day with Sun, I lose 3-4.5, Cover off most of the day and 4+ swimmers 4.5-5.5. These numbers are for June/July, other months are about 1ppm lower. You will learn your pool.
 
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KC, our pool is the same as yours, including equipment (we recently switched to a 2-speed pump, however.) We also have a heat pump to meet my wife's requirement of 85-degree water. ;)

Like many on here, I pretty much quit worrying about TA and only manage my pH and chlorine closely. On the advice of one TFP expert, I only test my TA "when I have absolutely nothing else to do." So far this season, that's been once upon opening and once last week.

Like Pool Store mentioned, I also run my chlorine a bit "warmer" during the heat of mis-summer. That way, if "life" gets in the way, I can skip a day of testing without any worries. If I purchased an SWG, I could skip up to a week with no worries! (I promised to build a deck 1st, though!) His calculations on FC loss for varying conditions almost exactly matches what I have learned as well.

We're in our third year maintaining our pool on the TFP regimen and have absolutely no regrets. It just keeps getting easier. For example, thus far this year I have added only four things to our pool:
1. About 8 gallons of chlorine.
2. 18 ounces of stabilizer (CYA.)
3. 6 pounds of 20 Mule Team Borax (pH Up.)
4. Water as needed.

Welcome to TFP and best of luck on your journey!
G.
 
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