Motor Burned

[PGQ24]

This is my first post, but I have been a pool owner and DIY for about 15 years. The story started with my wireless Goldline ps-8 controller with a message that the base receiver is not responding. I went to the local display on the outside and reset the breaker switch. Keep in mind that the pool pump was working fine. I turned on/off the breaker to the PCB board and control panel. When it came back, I got a communication error 1 on the local display at the pool equipment.

I decided to buy one of those aqua logic (goldline) ps-8 replacement control panel, but this one did not have the Hayward circuit board. When I plugged the control panel in, things looked OK. I can control the individual valves, etc., but I could not get into the menus like Setting, Timers, Defaults. I figured that it might be defective since the buttons would beep when pressed. I decided to start the pump/filter up since it had not been running for about 3 days. Within 30 seconds, I noticed a burned smell and smoke. So I turned it off, contacted the seller about the defective controller, and got a refund.

I proceeded to buy another control panel that was from Hayward circuit board on the inside, installed it, and the menus worked fine. However, now my pump is dead. The pump would turn on for about 2 seconds, and just shuts off.

My question is, is it possible for a control panel to cause my pump to fail? Additionally, the new Hayward control panel does not recognize the wireless receiver because it does not show up in the Setting menu. Is my wireless receiver defective, too? I hope someone can help me troubleshoot this.

 

[ajw22]

Welcome to TFP.

My guess is your non-Hayward controller put improper voltage on the RS-485 lines into the pump drive and fried something that killed the pump drive electronics.

Show us pictures of your Hayward controller and your wireless receiver.

Do you have an antenna connected to your controller to communicate with the wireless receiver?

Show us what you got and how things are wired.

 

[PGQ24]

The "Hayward" compatible controller that I initially bought from Ebay was physically exactly the same as the original Hayward PS-8 controller that was connected to the PCB mainboard via the 4 wires. I simply disconnected the 4-wire connector from my original Hayward controller panel (because it was displaying the communication error 1), and plugged in the compatible unit I bought from Ebay to the PCB mainboard. It was a basic simple swap.

I don't know what the RS-485 line is. I know that the control panel can change the configuration on the mainboard, but the configuration is locked and stored on the mainboard. I didn't change any configuration. BTW, the pump is a variable speed 2.5 hp 220v AO Smith and is 8 yrs old.

Regarding the wireless receiver, I was getting the "base receiver not responding" before the non-Hayward controller was connected. Did my pump just happened to burn up as a coincident, too? Is the PCB mainboard the culprit of these two failures and causing my original ps-8 to have a communication error 1 upon a breaker reset?

Is it likely that the mainboard is the culprit of "frying" all the connected components? If so, the new Hayward ps-8 control panel seems to be OK for now, but for how long?

 

[ajw22]

The 4 wire connector you refer to has two RS-485 data comm wires and two wires for 12V power.

You still have not shown me what specific model wireless boxes we are discussing.

All of your questions are speculation for which I have no information to say what happened. The only thing I know is you bought some rogue electronics on eBay.

 

[1poolman1]

This is my first post, but I have been a pool owner and DIY for about 15 years. The story started with my wireless Goldline ps-8 controller with a message that the base receiver is not responding. I went to the local display on the outside and reset the breaker switch. Keep in mind that the pool pump was working fine. I turned on/off the breaker to the PCB board and control panel. When it came back, I got a communication error 1 on the local display at the pool equipment.

I decided to buy one of those aqua logic (goldline) ps-8 replacement control panel, but this one did not have the Hayward circuit board. When I plugged the control panel in, things looked OK. I can control the individual valves, etc., but I could not get into the menus like Setting, Timers, Defaults. I figured that it might be defective since the buttons would beep when pressed. I decided to start the pump/filter up since it had not been running for about 3 days. Within 30 seconds, I noticed a burned smell and smoke. So I turned it off, contacted the seller about the defective controller, and got a refund.

I proceeded to buy another control panel that was from Hayward circuit board on the inside, installed it, and the menus worked fine. However, now my pump is dead. The pump would turn on for about 2 seconds, and just shuts off.

My question is, is it possible for a control panel to cause my pump to fail? Additionally, the new Hayward control panel does not recognize the wireless receiver because it does not show up in the Setting menu. Is my wireless receiver defective, too? I hope someone can help me troubleshoot this.

Which pump do you have? Is it a Hayward VSP? Single-speed pump? The only components the circuit board controls are the various relays, both the high-voltage ones in the cabinet and the low-voltage heater and valve-actuators connected to the circuit board. The circuit board does not send power to a Hayward VSP using the 485 connection. That 12v terminal isn't used.

 

[PGQ24]

My pcb mainboard is a Goldine Controls pn: G1-066008N-1 r2.6. My wireless receiver is a GOLDLINE AQL-BASE-RF Wireless Aqualogic Base Station Receiver. The local display (control panel) connected to the pcb mainboard is a Goldline GLX-LOCAL-PS-8. It is similar to this one on ebay. Compatible Hayward

 

[mas985]

This is my first post, but I have been a pool owner and DIY for about 15 years. The story started with my wireless Goldline ps-8 controller with a message that the base receiver is not responding.

I had one that did this and it was toast. I ended up writing an app and using a WiFi to RS485 adapter to replace the display unit.

AQL-PS-8 Remote Emulator App

A couple months ago, I started to have problems with my AquaLogic PS8 wireless remote. It frequently showed "The base receiver is not responding" which usually only lasted for a short period of time due to weak signal levels. But this time, it lasted for nearly a half day and eventually it...

www.troublefreepool.com

I went to the local display on the outside and reset the breaker switch. Keep in mind that the pool pump was working fine. I turned on/off the breaker to the PCB board and control panel. When it came back, I got a communication error 1 on the local display at the pool equipment.

That can sometimes happen. Just try resetting the breaker until is comes back online.

I proceeded to buy another control panel that was from Hayward circuit board on the inside, installed it, and the menus worked fine. However, now my pump is dead. The pump would turn on for about 2 seconds, and just shuts off.

There should be an error on either the pump display or the main control panel.

My question is, is it possible for a control panel to cause my pump to fail?

I doubt it unless you hooked it up incorrectly. You just replaced the display correct?

Additionally, the new Hayward control panel does not recognize the wireless receiver because it does not show up in the Setting menu. Is my wireless receiver defective, too? I hope someone can help me troubleshoot this.

It could be a compatibility issue. Post a picture of the new controller next to the old one.

Did you replace the main control board and not just the display keypad?

So we are talking about the same thing.

Display keypad:



Main Board:



If you replaced the main board as well, then that could be an issue for the VS pump if it is an earlier release.

 

[PGQ24]

Which pump do you have? Is it a Hayward VSP? Single-speed pump? The only components the circuit board controls are the various relays, both the high-voltage ones in the cabinet and the low-voltage heater one on the circuit board. The circuit board does not send power to a Hayward VSP using the 485 connection. That 12v terminal isn't used.

I have the Century 2 speed SP1620Z2MC pump/motor 2.5 hp, 230v). It was working fine running every day for 8 hours. Then it was off for about 3 days because of the communication error 1 on the local display, and the wireless not responding issues. When the compatible Hayward local display came in the mail and installed, that is when my pump burned and smoked with the compatible local display when I pressed the filter button on the display to run the pump.

Is it just shear bad luck that the wireless receiver failed, the motor failed, and the compatible local display was defective? Based on your assessment, it is not possible for the local display control panel to cause the pump to fail.

 

[PGQ24]

Thank you for the replies and suggestions. I only replaced display control panel. I did not change or replace the pcb mainboard. I did the resetting of the breaker multiple times with no success to get rid of the communication error 1. Also, the error with the wireless base receiver not responding could not be cleared either even when I have the wireless (desktop Ps-8) unit right up next to the antenna of the receiver.

Now that I have an new OEM Hayward local display control panel connected to the mainboard, the Teach wireless submenu does not appear under the Setting Menu. Per the manual, that means the pcb mainboard is not detecting the wireless receiver (I double check, and it is connected with all 4 wires intact).

 

[mas985]

I have the Century 2 speed SP1620Z2MC pump/motor 2.5 hp, 230v). It was working fine running every day for 8 hours. Then it was off for about 3 days because of the communication error 1 on the local display, and the wireless not responding issues. When the compatible Hayward local display came in the mail and installed, that is when my pump burned and smoked with the compatible local display when I pressed the filter button on the display to run the pump.

Is it just shear bad luck that the wireless receiver failed, the motor failed, and the compatible local display was defective? Based on your assessment, it is not possible for the local display control panel to cause the pump to fail.

Sounds like you might be dealing with two separate issues.

With a two speed pump, the on/off control is through the relays so it should have no bearing on the motor smoking unless both speeds were turned on at the same time which is unlikely. However, you could check this by turning off the breaker for the pump motor and disconnecting the wiring to the relays, both high and low speed and then use an ohm meter to detect if both relays were turned on at the same time. If so, then the main board may be bad.

 

[PGQ24]

I'm not too knowledgeable with electrical work and afraid of 230v circuits. I'm going to have new motors install next weekend, and I'll see if the guy can make sure that I only get 230V from the relay. Regarding the wireless receiver, I've ordered another one to see if I can get the wireless feature to come up on the control display. Kudos for programming the display onto an android or Windows. I read the thread half way down, and if I had more time, I definitely would try it out. But for now, I've got other things that require more attention.

 

[1poolman1]

I'm not too knowledgeable with electrical work and afraid of 230v circuits. I'm going to have new motors install next weekend, and I'll see if the guy can make sure that I only get 230V from the relay. Regarding the wireless receiver, I've ordered another one to see if I can get the wireless feature to come up on the control display. Kudos for programming the display onto an android or Windows. I read the thread half way down, and if I had more time, I definitely would try it out. But for now, I've got other things that require more attention.

Be absolutely sure that your system is set for a 2-speed motor, its in the menu. As mas985 said, it could be that both the high and low speed relays came on at the same time as the system may not be programmed correctly with the new board. That will, at the very least, pop a breaker but can also burn out a 2-speed motor.

 

[JamesW]

Be absolutely sure that your system is set for a 2-speed motor, its in the menu. As mas985 said, it could be that both the high and low speed relays came on at the same time as the system may not be programmed correctly with the new board. That will, at the very least, pop a breaker but can also burn out a 2-speed motor.

Most likely this is the issue.

Prologic uses two relays and the board needs to be configured for two speed.

The Aux Relay used for low speed has to be assigned to be the Low Speed Filter Pump Relay.

How To Wire A 2-Speed 230V Motor to a Hayward Pro Logic System - INYOPools.com

How To Wire A 2-Speed Motor to a Hayward Pro Logic System

www.inyopools.com

 

[JamesW]

For example, if you have Aux 1 wired as filter low speed, you go to Aux 1 Config and choose function Low speed filter.

The Relays are Filter Pump, Lights, Aux 1 and Aux 2.

In the below example, the low speed is wired to Aux 2, so you would configure the Function of Aux 2 as Filter Low Speed.

https://hayward.com/media/akeneo_connector/asset_files/0/9/092330D_RevJ_af5c.pdf

 

[PGQ24]

I assume the configuration is stored on the PCB mainboard and not on the local display controller. I did not change or replace the PCB mainboard. I only replaced the local display controller. I also did not change any wiring. I only unplug the 4 wire connector for the local display and connecting it to the new display. Do you think somehow, the filter button on the compatible but defective local display controller turned on both the high and low speed relay?

 

[PGQ24]

Also, is there anyway to repair the 2 speed pump, or do you think the copper coil has melted? As it currently stands, I have the new OEM Hayward local display controller connected. I press the filter button which starts the 2 speed pump as normal. However, the pump would run for about 1-2 seconds and then cuts out. I hear a click about 30 seconds later as if something resets. If that 1 to 2 seconds run, it sounds normal.

 

[mas985]

The configuration is stored in the main board but that can be erased with a reset.

I was thinking it could be a relay driver issue because both drivers are on the same chip. However if you press the filter button and the low speed stays off or visa versa, then that is not the problem.

 

[PGQ24]

I want to bring this thread to some point of closure. Thanks, everyone, for helping me through this. Here is a summary and resolution:

It started with a base receiver not responding message from my wireless Goldline ps-8. Then, I reset the circuit breaker. Afterward, the local display showed a communication error 1. Afterward, I installed a compatible Hayward display that was defective because the buttons would not allow me to get into the sub-menus. However, at this point, I decided to start my pump motors. The 8 years old 2.5 2-speed motor started up (after 3 day of no operations), and soon after, burned and some smokes started to come from it. It never run after that. I also had a 2.5hp Hayward super pump II (17 yrs old) rarely used for the water features) did not start either. I checked the start capacitor and it was good but did not check run capacitor. In any case, the motor just hummed and did not start. The old water feature pump was not seized but was very stiff to turn. The old pool pump was rusted out from the bottom (seen when I replaced it).

I then replaced and returned the defective compatible hayward local display panel with an OEM local display. All functions worked. However, the wireless receiver was not recognized. I bought a new wireless receiver, and all is good with that.

Then, I proceed with pump motor replacement. I replaced both pumps with a 2HP single speed each. I went into the configuration, and changed it to a 1 speed. I checked the voltage from the breaker to the pumps, and when the relays kicked in for each pump, I verified that the pumps were getting 240v each. (same as before). In short, the new pumps run OK and a slight "new motor" smell coming from them. They felt warmer to the touch, probably around 122 F (50C) as noted on the pumps, and they had a built-in thermal protection.

In summary, after about $2145 including contract labor, wireless receiver, local display panel, 2 motor pumps, the pool appears to be running OK. The only component not replaced is the PCB mainboard that I replaced back in 2015. BTW, the SWG is working OK, too.