Low FC & White Flakes with Breeze SWG in Tucson

[tippakayak]

Hi all! In June we purchased a house with a pool! We are first time pool owners so I am doing my best to learn about maintenance and am SO thankful to have found this forum. The pool is approximately 10 year old and the equipment is approximately 3 years old. The previous owner had the pool maintained weekly by a local father & son business and we chose to keep them on for June/July while we settled in to the house. We have now taken over full time maintenance and the water is clear.

My primary concerns that inspired me to post are as follows:

• The SWG seems to be unable to keep up with the chlorine needs of the pool. Based on my reading here that could be due to poor water chemistry and/or nascent algae.
• There are white flakes in the pool. I believe this is calcium scale from the SWG due to poor water chemistry.

Our history with the pool so far:

• When we first moved in, FC tested at 0 and we discovered that the pool pump wasn't set to run for a long enough period. Now we have increased the pool pump run time to 10 hours but FC continues to deplete rapidly. We even tried a 48 continuous test and didn't notice a difference.
• Pool guy was adding Chlor Brite weekly to increase FC.
• Pool guy indicated we would have to add muriatic acid every so often but I am unsure of how many times he did this.
• Pool guy was cleaning the cell monthly but it develops scale/calcium rather quickly so we are going to shoot for cleaning every 2-3 weeks.
• Avg High Temp in Tucson was 100 for June and 101 for July with several days up to 105+.
• We have received ~0.80 inches of rain in both June and July.

And now for the test results. (Disclaimer: I started with a basic Home Depot test kit and although the FC seems accurate, the PH seems to report low. I identified this early on when comparing my numbers with the pool guy's. I now have a basic Taylor DPD and have ordered a Taylor K-2006 that it is set to arrive next week.)

• FC 1-3 much of June/July
• PH 7.7-7.9 much of June/July
• TA 80 per Home Depot Test Kit
• CH currently unknown but likely high due to Tucson water
  
• CYA 60 per Leslie's (I am skeptical of this based on the weekly addition of Chlor Brite)
• Salt 3400 per Leslie's (this is in line with test strips I have)
• Borates unkown

I have read quite a bit on here, including ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry, Recommended Pool Chemicals, Borates - Why and How, Salt Water Chlorine Generators, Water Balance for SWGs, Chlorine/CYA Chart and Perform the OCLT. When comparing the Water Balance for SWGs to the Breeze manual there are a few differences:

• FC 4-6 vs 1-3
• PH 7.2-7.8 vs 7.2-7.6
• TA 60-80 vs 80-100 (although Breeze manual also notes TA should be kept lower with harder water)
• CYA 70-80 vs 20-30

The recommended CH in the Breeze manual is 200-400 and the recommended salt is 4000-4500.

My plan:

1. Keep CL at 3-4 by adding bleach/Chlor Brite (depending on CYA level) as needed.
2. Keep PH at 7.4-7.6 by adding muriatic acid as needed.
3. Add Salt to increase level to 4000-4500.
4. Do full water chemistry test when I receive Taylor K-2006.
5. Perform the OCLT when I receive Taylor K-2006 to determine if SLAM is needed.
6. Possibly add Borates. I'm going to monitor SWG performance after I've lowered PH and added salt before pursing Borates.

My questions:

1. Why is the FC recommendation here higher?
2. Why is the CYA recommendation here higher?

Also, any input on my plan or additional insight will be greatly appreciated!

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum! :handshake:

This forum advocate’s pool owner water testing using a proper test kit. Order a TF100 test kit.

The only other real option for a test kit is a Taylor K-2006-C. Be careful comparing prices because the K-2006 comes in sizes, designated by a letter. The basic K-2006 has .75oz bottles. You need to get the K-2006-C to get the larger bottles that you want.

I also have the SpeedStir. It makes testing much easier.

You should not be having to clean your SWCG if you get your own kit and manage your water chemistry to TFP levels. I have not had to clean my SWCG in going on 4 years. And I have the same hard water you do.

When you get your kit, post up a complete set of test results and we can provide some guidance.

 

[Philo]

This is the most prepared first time poster I've seen.


My questions:

1. Why is the FC recommendation here higher?
2. Why is the CYA recommendation here higher?

They are quoting 1970's (maybe 1960's) recommendations. My Health Dept. has FC at 10 ppm and CYA at 100 (and that's really not current science either).

 

[tippakayak]

Re: Low FC & White Flakes with Breeze SWG in Tucson

Per my initial post I have ordered the Taylor K-2006. The Breeze manual indicates cleaning once every 1-3 months is fairly normal. Test results aside, my questions (at the end of the initial post) about the TFP recommendation as compared to those in the Breeze manual still stand.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Philo! So the recommendations for FC and CYA used to be lower and now people have realized that higher is more appropriate?

 

[mknauss]

I understand the kit you ordered. Just understand it is small and will need reagent refills, primarily for the FAS-DPD and CYA tests, very soon.

The Breeze manual is based on old standards that have been discounted by the science backing TFPC. For details on the science review Pool Water Chemistry

Again, there should be no need to clean a SWCG that often. Each time you clean it with acid you reduce its overall life span.

We must monitor CSI (Pool School - Calcium Saturation Index (CSI))) here in the desert and with a SWCG if you keep the CSI between -0.3 and 0 you will not get appreciable scale build up in your SWCG.

 

[tippakayak]

Thanks for those resources mknauss, will take a look! And by cleaning we are just removing the scale with a wooden paint stirrer stick, not using acid.

 

[tippakayak]

Received the Taylor K-2006 today.

• FC 4
• PH 7.5
• TA 90
• CH 1250
  
• CYA 80
• Salt 3400

So the biggest issue seems to be the CH... :-(

On the plus side, the SWG seems happy with the lower PH. I'm still considering adding salt to meet the manual specs of 4000-4500 but might wait until after doing a partial drain to fix that.

 

[jmcdtucson]

I'm in Tucson also and CH out of the tap is 450!

My pool has CH of 700 and I have trouble with flaking as well. In my case, I conclude my issue is a bad SWG (it's a cheap Intex for aboveground pool although in the past this model has worked fine for me).
Keep my CSI between -.3 and 0 religiously. PH about 7.2 to 7.5 range, targeting 7.2.

 

[tippakayak]

Good to know! I plan on testing the fill water next. Also hoping monsoon kicks in and gives some rain water to help things out.