Long SLAM, 17 Days & Counting
- Thread starter Caracat
- Start date
Re: Long SLAM, 17 Days & Counting
Probably an idiotic question- but is that, "plug" in the deep end not actually a drain?
Probably an idiotic question- but is that, "plug" in the deep end not actually a drain?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Not an idiotic question at all, because I have a better one for you.
What plug? I just can't seem to see it. A drain will typically be at the deep end bottom and have a cover screwed over it though if that helps. Some drains can be at the lower side of the walls as well.Say, I did notice in your pics …. "no flow pipe"? What's that about? Any idea? I'm wondering if there's some stagnant algae-filled water in there contaminating the other areas. Thoughts?
The perhaps-a-drain is in middle of the deep end, right under where the vacuum was hanging out in my SLAM17thDay Pic. Looks wonky in the photo due to the circulating water. It is clean and pristine in real life, looks to be about 8" across.
Yeah, that weird, gray pipe. I'm thinking someone updated plumbing at some point and maybe that pipe was part of the original flow? It is filled with concrete. I can only reach about an inch inside before hitting it. (Yes, I have scrubbed the useless pipe inside & out!). I really know nothing and am just guessing. There used to be a diving board & the holes where it lived were cut flush w/ the ground & filled with concrete, too.
Impossible to photograph, but there's a square-shaped opening at the bottom right wall of the rectangular area with the suction pipe in it. The opening extends all the way through to the other (round) hole that contains the skimmer basket. If I ever drain to waste I can only drain a few inches inches before the pipe is sticking up out of the water, sucking air. So I hope what I have in the deep end is a real drain, should I ever need one, though I do own a pump now thanks to my formerly outrageous CYA levels. There is no other circulation to/from from the pool: just the white pipe & two jets.
Yeah, that weird, gray pipe. I'm thinking someone updated plumbing at some point and maybe that pipe was part of the original flow? It is filled with concrete. I can only reach about an inch inside before hitting it. (Yes, I have scrubbed the useless pipe inside & out!). I really know nothing and am just guessing. There used to be a diving board & the holes where it lived were cut flush w/ the ground & filled with concrete, too.
Impossible to photograph, but there's a square-shaped opening at the bottom right wall of the rectangular area with the suction pipe in it. The opening extends all the way through to the other (round) hole that contains the skimmer basket. If I ever drain to waste I can only drain a few inches inches before the pipe is sticking up out of the water, sucking air. So I hope what I have in the deep end is a real drain, should I ever need one, though I do own a pump now thanks to my formerly outrageous CYA levels. There is no other circulation to/from from the pool: just the white pipe & two jets.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Cara, after looking at your Google pics again, I'm beginning to grasp for straws here, but here are the only things that seem to be possibilities in my mind:
- That cover (drain) in pic # 3914. Did you say you removed that? Was that the "Perhaps-s-drain"? I couldn't tell from all our discussions. Just wanted to ensure there's nothing trapped under it.
- Those appear to be standard (molded) steps to get out of the water at the ladder. No chance they are hollow or removable correct?
- That white pipe in the rectangle section …. odd. An additional suction pipe obviously from your description, but odd there. Old-school stuff I'm sure from the looks of all of that. Not sure it would have much bearing though on the SLAM since water has been well chlorinated for several days now.
- I hope there are no gaps in that epoxy mess in the light niche. Hard to tell from the photo.
So if we don't uncover some undiscovered nook & cranny somewhere hiding algae, that would seem to leave the water itself. Possibly overwhelmed from the chemicals added earlier this month at various times. Although I would expect the CC reading to be higher is it was struggling with those.
By tomorrow if you don't see some better progress, I may PM a person or two who can advise us on that plumbing just to confirm there's not a possibility of a hidden port or branch that we don't understand. From there, I'm considering a few final options:
1 - Let the FC fall to normal and give you a break. See how the pool reacts.
2 - Give the pool a 24-hr smack of a higher dose of FC. Again, just a short burst for one day to see if it causes an obvious change.
3 - Another healthy water exchange. More than anything to help reassure us that the byproducts from previous pool store chemicals have been greatly reduced from the chemistry in case they are impeding the SLAM.
But let's check back in tomorrow and revisit all of these options.
- That cover (drain) in pic # 3914. Did you say you removed that? Was that the "Perhaps-s-drain"? I couldn't tell from all our discussions. Just wanted to ensure there's nothing trapped under it.
- Those appear to be standard (molded) steps to get out of the water at the ladder. No chance they are hollow or removable correct?
- That white pipe in the rectangle section …. odd. An additional suction pipe obviously from your description, but odd there. Old-school stuff I'm sure from the looks of all of that. Not sure it would have much bearing though on the SLAM since water has been well chlorinated for several days now.
- I hope there are no gaps in that epoxy mess in the light niche. Hard to tell from the photo.
So if we don't uncover some undiscovered nook & cranny somewhere hiding algae, that would seem to leave the water itself. Possibly overwhelmed from the chemicals added earlier this month at various times. Although I would expect the CC reading to be higher is it was struggling with those.
By tomorrow if you don't see some better progress, I may PM a person or two who can advise us on that plumbing just to confirm there's not a possibility of a hidden port or branch that we don't understand. From there, I'm considering a few final options:
1 - Let the FC fall to normal and give you a break. See how the pool reacts.
2 - Give the pool a 24-hr smack of a higher dose of FC. Again, just a short burst for one day to see if it causes an obvious change.
3 - Another healthy water exchange. More than anything to help reassure us that the byproducts from previous pool store chemicals have been greatly reduced from the chemistry in case they are impeding the SLAM.
But let's check back in tomorrow and revisit all of these options.
* I have never removed the cover of the what I called, "Perhaps-a-drain." Now that i know it IS a drain, I'll just call it that, ha! I don't know how to remove it. Screwdriver? Can it be removed from the surface? I am not diving again- too cold. Maybe I could pay the 11-year-old, but he's not much of a tool guy.
*Steps are definitely not removable.
*The white pipe is not an additional suction pipe. It is the ONLY suction pipe for the whole pool. (I run vac or have swirly action to skimmer, not both!)
*The light niche is definitely suspicious. Waiting for hubs to get an SD card for his underwater camera so I can see how bad it really is.
I can't tell you how grateful I am for all your help! Thanks for sticking with me, everyone!
UGH. Check out the video of the light niche I took this morning. Thoughts? The water was very high a couple days ago, and now it's back to normal. It's been pretty cold and overcast, and I don't think it would evaporate that quickly. A leak, perhaps? Is there some way to test the niche for one?
Caracat, with these recent posters, you’re in good hands. They’ll help you get it figured out.
I was thinking about you this morning at the time I needed to get my pool water sample (about half an hour after the pump has started). It was pouring rain, so I didn’t want to get it then. Do you have a rain gauge to know how much rain you get at a particular time. Normally rain doesn’t have too much effect on chemistry, but the rain our area of Texas has been getting has been anything but normal. I haven’t been checking on Houston, though. Rain water in significant quantities might take some time to mix with your pool water, so it could throw your testing off a bit if it has rained torrentially and not mixed thoroughly. Probably does not account for everything going on in your situation, but I was thinking about it as the rain came pouring down on my pool.
Also, I was looking back at your oh-so-detailed test results, and something caught my eye. In what I was reading you give an evening test time and then indicate the amount of chlorine you add to get to 24. The next timed result is the morning. You are testing again after the pump has mixed in the last addition of the evening, right? That’s an important step, and I didn’t see it recorded in what I looked at, but I didn’t reread your entire log.
Also, just a heads up that old main drains can be dangerous. I wouldn’t send your eleven year old down there without knowing whether it’s running or not and how much suction there is. I’m afraid I have no expertise to offer. I just know you should be cautious.
I was thinking about you this morning at the time I needed to get my pool water sample (about half an hour after the pump has started). It was pouring rain, so I didn’t want to get it then. Do you have a rain gauge to know how much rain you get at a particular time. Normally rain doesn’t have too much effect on chemistry, but the rain our area of Texas has been getting has been anything but normal. I haven’t been checking on Houston, though. Rain water in significant quantities might take some time to mix with your pool water, so it could throw your testing off a bit if it has rained torrentially and not mixed thoroughly. Probably does not account for everything going on in your situation, but I was thinking about it as the rain came pouring down on my pool.
Also, I was looking back at your oh-so-detailed test results, and something caught my eye. In what I was reading you give an evening test time and then indicate the amount of chlorine you add to get to 24. The next timed result is the morning. You are testing again after the pump has mixed in the last addition of the evening, right? That’s an important step, and I didn’t see it recorded in what I looked at, but I didn’t reread your entire log.
Also, just a heads up that old main drains can be dangerous. I wouldn’t send your eleven year old down there without knowing whether it’s running or not and how much suction there is. I’m afraid I have no expertise to offer. I just know you should be cautious.
Thanks! I do think we will lick this eventually... I've gotten more help here already than what I got from 3 different pool companies combined.
I don't think the rain water is too big of a deal since I'm running the pump 24/7, but that's why I included it in the logs- so I could look for patterns. I don't have a gauge, but accumulations were only significant on ONE of the test days so far.
The evening additions are mixed right away since I'm keeping the pump on. Whenever I've adjusted ph or TA using the pool math calculator I always get the readings I want about 30 minutes after adding acid or soda, so it seems things are, "mixing" pretty well & fairly quickly.
I didn't even think about the drain having suction. DUH! Thanks for pointing out the obvious. This pool is frying my brain.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
Cara, we have a page for leak detection: Pool School - Leak Detection. So if you suspect that's an issue, you might take a peak at that page and the bucket test process. If you are leaking water, you should also notice a drop in various chemicals like FC, CYA, and CH among others. Leaks can be exceptionally tricky. If the bucket test reveals an unexplained drop of water, then you'll do things like turn the entire system off for a day and re-check. Perhaps try to isolate where the leak may be by isolating/inspecting the suction and pressure sides, and as you mentioned that light niche. Sometimes a water dye (i.e. food coloring) can be injected in an area like that to see if it gets "sucked-out" through a hole or opening. Drain covers can vary, but many are held down by a screw of sorts, often times a Philips head, but sometimes a different fitting. Definitely be careful if someone goes down there when the pump is on, although right about now our water is getting chilly.
Here's a second video of the light niche. It focuses a little better on the area I am most concerned about - the left side/top edge, just inside the recess. A bunch of plaster has chipped away leaving an opening that's about 4" long and 1/3" wide. I stuck a bobby pin in there, and it seems to be about 2 inches deep. I didn't want to poke around too much & cause any more damage. There could certainly be stuff growing in there, but I'm not sure sticking a brush in it would be very smart. There's also the hole the conduit runs through. I can't tell if it's sealed or not.
Re: Long SLAM, 17 Days & Counting
Cara
You are persistent, and that is one important pre-requisite of this forum. You are definitely in good hands with all of the contributors, though that statement doesn't appease you after 17 days of slamming and measuring.
Your drain has 2 phillips-head screws on the side that can easily be unscrewed. It does require diving in and being able to hold the breath for a good bit as each 1-inch screw comes out. Definitely make sure that the pump is off please.
Cara
You are persistent, and that is one important pre-requisite of this forum. You are definitely in good hands with all of the contributors, though that statement doesn't appease you after 17 days of slamming and measuring.
Your drain has 2 phillips-head screws on the side that can easily be unscrewed. It does require diving in and being able to hold the breath for a good bit as each 1-inch screw comes out. Definitely make sure that the pump is off please.
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I'm at work and my server won't let me view the link to the video, but when I get home I'll take a peek. I'm sure other members like above will continue to give you some great input. Worst case scenario, if the light niche becomes something that is indeed leaking, unmanageable, or inoperative, there are niche covers available that can be considered to cover and seal that area either to prevent potential leaks or isolate stagnant water .... IF that's even an issue. Keep up the great work!
Re: Long SLAM, 17 Days & Counting
Ha, thanks! Persistent to a fault. Someday that will pay off, right?
I'll send the poor hubs back into the deep end this weekend to unscrew the cover.
Ha, thanks! Persistent to a fault. Someday that will pay off, right?
I'll send the poor hubs back into the deep end this weekend to unscrew the cover.
Hats off to you Cara! You are persistent and sure have stamina. You’re in great hands here. I just wanted to ask if you rechecked your cya? I might have missed it but noticed further up you mentioned needing to recheck once the rain had stopped.
I got a bucket today and will start that in the am.
I put some food coloring dye gel on the end of a toothpick and held it in front of the light niche. The dye flowed away from the niche, toward the pool circulation. So maybe not leaking, at least not from there?
I had pool store test my stuff today just because I was there AGAIN buying bleach. They got 40 for CYA which is a lower than I got. (55) Planning to retest at home, but still waiting for that elusive sunny day to do so! Incidentally, they said I had NO rust or copper. That may not be totally accurate, but I think I can assume my levels are low enough to not need another type of test kit. I will do a full test of all chemicals in the morning, but first tell me this- which readings should I not bother with during SLAM? I know the PH will be inaccurate, but anything else?
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
At this point, just maintain the FC as you have been doing based on the last CYA test. Once that sun pokes its head out, you can verify the CYA. For the niche, it's a tough spot to test sometimes. I suspect most success is by using a syringe and injecting the dye closer to the rear of the niche. Kind of like in this image:
I am an idiot! I don't even want to tell y'all what I just figured out. I seriously considered disappearing and never coming back, but y'all have been way too good to me for that. So here goes:
My computer just froze and I had to restart it. I re-entered everything into the pool calculator.
That's when I realized that my browser was defaulting to 10K gallons whenever I refreshed it. Meaning- I have not been adding enough chlorine this whole time!!!
I was NEVER hitting 24FC, because I was only adding enough chlorine for a 10K gal pool. Mine is 24K.
Go ahead and slap me around. I totally deserve it.
I just added the correct amount of chlorine to hit 24 FC for real. Tonight could be the magical OCLT night.
I am so, so, SO embarrassed!
My computer just froze and I had to restart it. I re-entered everything into the pool calculator.
That's when I realized that my browser was defaulting to 10K gallons whenever I refreshed it. Meaning- I have not been adding enough chlorine this whole time!!!
I was NEVER hitting 24FC, because I was only adding enough chlorine for a 10K gal pool. Mine is 24K.
Go ahead and slap me around. I totally deserve it.
I just added the correct amount of chlorine to hit 24 FC for real. Tonight could be the magical OCLT night.
I am so, so, SO embarrassed!
- Jun 22, 2014
- 47,965
- Pool Size
- 17888
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
No slapping, but some serious poking.
Ha ha.Okay, so now we can re-group and start over somewhat. Now that you've adjusted the FC correctly, let's see what your CYA reads on the next sunny day. I think it prudent to give the process a bit more time to react appropriately based on your …… revelation. :angel:
At the very least, thanks for the laugh this evening. Now let's get that pool in shape. Keep us posted tomorrow.
So glad you figured it out! I guess you’re starting your slam as of now lol. At least everything is squeaky clean and ready to go. I had a feeling it was something obvious.
I’ve lost count of how many silly moments I’ve had. I used the wrong reagent with testing my FC a while back. I gave up after adding so many drops over multiple tests with no no colour change agh! I assumed my FC was through the roof from the swcg [emoji23] Only a few days ago I took my boost pump that runs the heat pump out so a builder could install a vent behind it. Once I got the pump back in and turned on I wondered why it was running 24/7 when it usually turns itself off after it reaches temp. Two days of running non stop later I realised I’d plugged it in to a regular outdoor power point rather than the point on the underside of the heat pump controller box. Doh! Coming to realise that often the answer if right there in front of you if you look hard enough.
I’ve lost count of how many silly moments I’ve had. I used the wrong reagent with testing my FC a while back. I gave up after adding so many drops over multiple tests with no no colour change agh! I assumed my FC was through the roof from the swcg [emoji23] Only a few days ago I took my boost pump that runs the heat pump out so a builder could install a vent behind it. Once I got the pump back in and turned on I wondered why it was running 24/7 when it usually turns itself off after it reaches temp. Two days of running non stop later I realised I’d plugged it in to a regular outdoor power point rather than the point on the underside of the heat pump controller box. Doh! Coming to realise that often the answer if right there in front of you if you look hard enough.