Liquid Diet question... slightly high pH

[sonnaps]

I am doing the liquid diet method this year, second year owning a pool. I have had a myriad of issues as a first time pool owner, so this is why I decided to go this route this year.

I had/have super high copper levels, down from 3.2 to about 0.8 right now using a Metal Stain Eliminator Kit from Periodic Products. It took about a month for that. So far it worked pretty well, even though I got some staining back. I am going to do another round with a new kit of the same stuff and see where I am at in another couple of weeks. I'm not sure if the copper is truly down to 0.8 or just a bunch stuck back to the walls and the number is much higher still.

I also had very high Cyanuric acid when we opened the pool, in the hundreds. I am down to about 60 now through several rounds of draining and filling.

All my other numbers are good. Latest pool store test as of yesterday 07/06/2022:

Free Chlorine - 2.43
Total Chlorine - 2.43
Combined Chlorine - 0.00
pH - 7.6
Alkalinity - 118
Hardness - 199
Cyanuric acid - 60
Iron - 0.00
Copper - 0.80
Phosphate - 0

My issue is this. I have to fight to keep my pH down. I put in about a pint of Muriatic Acid every other day. Sometimes it's a pint and a half, sometimes a quart. This is about every two days. I kind of alternate, I do some liquid chlorine one day, and muratic acid the next. Sometimes I see the pH seems on the upper level of normal, 7.8 or so... so I add more muriatic. Sometimes I do both liquid chlorine and muriatic the same day, just spaced two hours apart.

I am trying to keep the pH down to the lower level or normal if I can, 7.2-7.4. From what I understand, high pH will cause the metals is my water to plate out and re-stain the liner. That is kind of why this seems like a battle to me specifically.

Anyway, is this par for the course when only using liquid chlorine and no pucks? I just see the four empty bottles of one gallon muriatic acid bottles that I have gone through in the course of two months, and it just makes me wonder. I'm on my fifth bottle right now.

I don't want to damage my vinyl liner or anything with all this muriatic. It just seems like alot. I do dilute it in a 5 gallon bucket first, and pour it very slowly in the deep end in the stream of one of the return jets.

So bottom line question, does this all seem normal when using only liquid chlorine?

 

[Texas Splash]

Pucks are acidic which helps to slow the rise of pH and TA, so with liquid chlorine you may need to add a little more acid. But as long as you continue to go to the pool store for testing, you are doing yourself a disservice. The numbers above could be off, thus you are dosing incorrectly. You really need your own TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C to be sure the chemicals you are adding will work.

 

[sonnaps]

Pucks are acidic which helps to slow the rise of pH and TA, so with liquid chlorine you may need to add a little more acid. But as long as you continue to go to the pool store for testing, you are doing yourself a disservice. The numbers above could be off, thus you are dosing incorrectly. You really need your own TF-100 or Taylor K-2006C to be sure the chemicals you are adding will work.

Yes, I only go to the pool store once a week for some numbers. For the most part I use strips for chlorine and alk, and I use a small basic Taylor K-1000 kit with drops for pH. I am meaning to buy a more comprehensive kit soon when I can. The AquaChek 7-Way Pool strips I use seem to line up well when comparing to the drops. I test the water like twice a day, my wife thinks I'm nuts.

 

[mknauss]

"Taylor K-2006C"
That is in your signature -- if you do not have one -- remove it so members are not confused.

 

[Texas Splash]

Testing is extremely important. Because of that, we often remind owners that test strips are not reliable either, not only because of difficulties reading/matching colors, but because the "ranges" they show as acceptable actually are not. It sounds as though you've heard us say here at TFP how important a good test kit is for success, so we'll just leave it at that. We can assure you you won't be disappointed with the results from one of those kits.

 

[Flying Tivo]

I am meaning to buy a more comprehensive kit soon when I can.

This is the answer most given when we ask for a test kit. What most people dont realize is that if you keep following Guess strips results or Pool$tore results, you will likely end spending more money on useless potions. See it as an instant saving not having to buy expensive potions at the poolstore.

 

[sonnaps]

Testing is extremely important. Because of that, we often remind owners that test strips are not reliable either, not only because of difficulties reading/matching colors, but because the "ranges" they show as acceptable actually are not. It sounds as though you've heard us say here at TFP how important a good test kit is for success, so we'll just leave it at that. We can assure you you won't be disappointed with the results from one of those kits.

Got it, will do. I am going to order that Taylor K-2006C kit that's been in my Amazon cart for months now. It's actually on sale at the moment for a little bit cheaper than normal.

So the consensus is that the amount of muriatic I am using is normal when only using liquid chlorine? Going through 4 bottles in 2 months doesn't seem off?

 

[Texas Splash]

So the consensus is that the amount of muriatic I am using is normal when only using liquid chlorine? Going through 4 bottles in 2 months doesn't seem off?

Honestly it can vary by season. I'm using a bit more acid this year than before. This year I'm adding a cup every 2-3 days. Of course aeration and other factors can influence the rise of pH. It will be interesting to see your own K-2006C test results when you receive it. They could be eye-opening compared to what you've been accustomed to with the test strips.

 

[Steve-D]

If your Alkalinity (TA) really is 118 then that could be contributing to the rise in pH...and if it is actually higher then it most certainly is related to how quickly pH is going up. You will have a better picture when you get your new test kit.

My TA stubbornly stuck at 100 for a while and then I started Muriatic Acid treatments when it hit 110 and pH hit 8.0 for the first (and only) time this season. Since then I've focused on managing the pH with MA as needed and that has slowly brought TA down to 90 over time. It has been a slow process but there really isn't a pressing need to force it by overdosing with MA to the point that I need to chemically bring up pH...which you especially don't want to do to avoid creating more copper problems.

 

[Katygreys]

Yes, I only go to the pool store once a week for some numbers. For the most part I use strips for chlorine and alk, and I use a small basic Taylor K-1000 kit with drops for pH. I am meaning to buy a more comprehensive kit soon when I can. The AquaChek 7-Way Pool strips I use seem to line up well when comparing to the drops. I test the water like twice a day, my wife thinks I'm nuts.

Test Strip Instructions: Carefully remove from packaging. Deposit directly into trash.
Alternate Instructions: Carefully remove from packaging. Dip test strip into pool. Match color to chart on package. Result is any value other than what is indicated by test strip.

 

[sonnaps]

Test Strip Instructions: Carefully remove from packaging. Deposit directly into trash.
Alternate Instructions: Carefully remove from packaging. Dip test strip into pool. Match color to chart on package. Result is any value other than what is indicated by test strip.

Lmao, this so turned into a thread on bashing anything but Taylor or TFTestKits. Can these AquaChek 7-Way Pool and Spa Test Strips be really that horrible with 9000+ positive reviews? At least as a supplement to a proper kit?

What do you guys think about either of these? The LaMotte ColorQ 2x PRO 9 Plus or the LaMotte ColorQ 2x TesTabs PRO 9.

 

[Katygreys]

I would say that the LaMotte kits and the test strips you reference are perfectly fine, depending on what you are using them for. I would however contend that you cannot reliably maintain your pool with these products. To wit: The LaMotte kits only measured FC up to 10ppm. You will need a kit that test FC to a higher limit if you ever need to slam. But if you always maintain FC and CYA at proper levels then you should never need to slam. So maybe the LaMotte is fine. Who knows

Most people on the planet don’t use the test kits we recommend. Most people’s pools are not maintained well. To be honest, since I started maintaining my own pool, almost every other pool I’ve been in is pretty gross. It’s amazing what you notice when you know what to look for.

 

[Katygreys]

Sorry if I was making my point in a not too subtle way.

I tossed my test strips a couple weeks after I got my Taylor kit. I just had no use for them anymore. I am confident that you will be super happy with your test results once you start using it. Your confidence level will go up. And your pool will be better looking and cleaner because you will know what’s going on with your pool

 

[borjis]

It's very possible that lowering your TA level will also reduce the need for adding acid. my last pool was happy at TA 60. Every pool is different and that particular one had rock steady ph at 7.5.
But you gotta have drop test kit accuracy so you know exactly where it is to begin.

 

[PowerPigg!!]

Can these AquaChek 7-Way Pool and Spa Test Strips be really that horrible with 9000+ positive reviews? At least as a supplement to a proper kit?

I can give you my own anecdotal answer on why the answer is "dear lord in heaven YES they can be". Although, as a supplemental test they will quickly reveal that they are inconsistent and not very accurate, and that neither is the test from the pool store.

I'm pretty sure you figured much like I did at first. It only makes sense to get something "good enough" for daily testing to supplement the detailed weekly test from the experts at the pool store. After all, they're the pros, they know what they are talking about, and they have my back. That's their job.

I am forever grateful to the Aquacheck strips because, while they proved inconsistent and inaccurate, they helped revealed a great truth about my pool store: They're salesmen. They don't really know what they are talking about but are good at sounding like they do. They certainly don't have my back. After all, that's not their job.

So if we can't count on the pool store, we need to rely on ourselves, which meant I needed a good test kit, and quick. I was just about to start perusing Amazon when a bunch of bona-fide pool industry and water treatment experts, some with actual graduate degrees in chemistry, walked straight into my house to tell me they had researched a variety of testing methods and settled on a series of well-understood reagents and testing methods for residential pool care; gave me the results of years of research; and showed me the exact test kit to buy that would not only be accurate and reliable, but most importantly would serve as an agreed-upon point of reference that they could count on as the basis for any pool care advice I needed from them in the future. Oh yeah, they did not charge me a dime. I offered them cookies. Seemed fair.

No, wait, sorry. That's actually what's happening to you, right now. So buy the kit if you haven't already.

 

[Mdragger88]

Even if the strips are as accurate as possible- they only show ranges. This is just not good enough to rely upon for much other than “is there any chlorine at all or not”
This can lead u to believe everything is fine when you are actually skating on very thin ice.
For instance- Currently u are below the minimum fc level for your cya - FC/CYA Levels
this is an open invitation to algae & other nasties leaving u with under sanitized water.
Your daily target should be around 9ppm to prevent u ever skirting minimum if your cya is actually 60ppm.
With strips u can’t tell whether your fc is 5 or is it 7, almost 10? Is the cya 30 or 50? Your guess is as good as mine.
They also have a tendency to bleach out at higher fc levels which poses other issues.
I used to use them for quick checks but they were more trouble than they were worth more often than not since I couldn’t trust them & had to drop test anyway to truly verify a value.
You really can’t go wrong with doing your own testing- it puts u in control & it’s the best investment u can make for your pool maintenance.

 

[bertschb]

So bottom line question, does this all seem normal when using only liquid chlorine?

Every pool is different but I'm currently adding about 1/3 of a gallon of 31% muriatic acid per week.

 

[sonnaps]

Every pool is different but I'm currently adding about 1/3 of a gallon of 31% muriatic acid per week.

Ok, so that's like 2.66 gallons in 2 months. So I am not too far off or crazy excessive. I went through 4 gallons in two months and my pool is 21,000 gallons. I just needed some real world examples to see how much acid people normally go through. Thanks so much.

I know it' a different pool, different climate, etc. Was just curious.

 

[sonnaps]

Even if the strips are as accurate as possible- they only show ranges. This is just not good enough to rely upon for much other than “is there any chlorine at all or not”
This can lead u to believe everything is fine when you are actually skating on very thin ice.
For instance- Currently u are below the minimum fc level for your cya - FC/CYA Levels
this is an open invitation to algae & other nasties leaving u with under sanitized water.
Your daily target should be around 9ppm to prevent u ever skirting minimum if your cya is actually 60ppm.
With strips u can’t tell whether your fc is 5 or is it 7, almost 10? Is the cya 30 or 50? Your guess is as good as mine.
They also have a tendency to bleach out at higher fc levels which poses other issues.
I used to use them for quick checks but they were more trouble than they were worth more often than not since I couldn’t trust them & had to drop test anyway to truly verify a value.
You really can’t go wrong with doing your own testing- it puts u in control & it’s the best investment u can make for your pool maintenance.

Thank link to that chart is super helpful, thank you. I was on the fence about draining and filling some more to get the CYA even lower. Based on that chart, I probably should. I will know better once my test kit arrives and I do multiple tests on the CYA and make sure I'm really at 60 or not.

 

[Newdude]

a great truth about my pool store: They're salesmen. They don't really know what they are talking about but are good at sounding like they

OMG preach!!! I hit up my pool store for balancing chemicals upon filling the pool they installed because I had a $100 credit with the build. I also needed to make sure nobody was going to show up and use mystery products.

The store manager and top counter guy assured me they wouldn't be able to do a thing without a water sample. Well why not ? You know my gallons because you installed the pool. You know my chlorine, CYA and salt are 0 with local tap water. You also know we have calcium in the 50 range and acceptable TA/PH from the get go.

The two of them froze and didn't have the first clue what to do without their computerized printout. They know how to read Bioguards instructions. They have ZERO clue otherwise.

Then the sales kid told me they wouldn't have CYA in stock for 2 weeks, but I'd be fine because even when some burns off, there is some left to help protect the FC.

Bruh. Thats true when I drop from 70 to 50. That is not true with 0 CYA tap water.

*another blank stare*

Forget it. I'll go to Home Depot.