Liquid chlorine questions

[Gary Davis]

If you have Ocean State Job Lots near you, their 12.5% chlorine is $5.99/gallon.

• I wish we had prices like that as out here, in California...
  • Leslie's HASA 31.45% HCl is $43.74 taxed ($10.94/gallon, taxed)
  • Leslie's HASA 12.5% Chlorine is $38.27 taxed ($9.57/gallon, taxed)

The Pool Math App for your phone has a Bleach calculator to help compare - for what you posted, the Home Depot is the better deal.​

Out here, the Home Depot 10.0% chlorine is $14.98 (pre tax) for two gallons, which, taxed at 10% is about $16.50/2 gallons or about $8.25/gallon taxed.
However, to compare to HASA 12.5% you have to multiply the cost by 125% which makes the equivalent cost about $10.31/gallon-equivalent.

I just have to jump on the SWCG bandwagon, also. I'm guessing you will need to add about 2/3-3/4 gallon per day once things get stabilized. Just for the main season (120 days) that's $528 just in liquid Cl. Won't take more than a few years to completely pay off that SWCG.....and no lugging and pouring.

I add about a quart of HASA 12.5% liquid chlorine a day during the summer season, which at an easy-math of $12/gallon makes it about $3/day for liquid chlorine.

• Over 120 days that's about $360 (easy math) in costs for liquid chlorine.
• Over 30 years that's about $10K (easy math) for liquid chlorine.

How much is a 30-year cost for SWCG sized for a pool twice the size of mine (to get reasonable life out of each unit)?

 

[Bperry]

• Over 30 years that's about $10K (easy math) for liquid chlorine.

How much is a 30-year cost for SWCG sized for a pool twice the size of mine (to get reasonable life out of each unit)?

If the SWCG costs $1500 and lasts 8 years, then the 30 year cost would be $5625. But I’m not sure why you would extrapolate out 30 years. The SWCG pays for financially itself in just a few years and pays for itself in simplicity in a few days.

 

[sande005]

How much is a 30-year cost for SWCG sized for a pool twice the size of mine (to get reasonable life out of each unit)?

Using Circupool RJ60+ as a base. 7 yr warranty - so let's use that for cell lifespan. $1629 current cost. 3 more cells ($749 ea) over the years = $2247. Initial salt (est) = $70, yearly (2 bags) = 29*14 = $476
So roughly $4350 over 30 yrs. Bump it up by $2000 as a wag if paying someone to install. Net ~$6,350. So $3650 saved over the years. More if DIY. More if one shops Circupools frequent sales. More if one adds in milage saved going to the store. More if one adds in the reduction in use of chem test supplies over the years.

And, there is a possible other gigantic saving - running (or buying and running) a VS pump on low 24/7 - but that huge savings is very site and operation specific as to "how much".
Not factored in - the minimal increase in electric cost for running a SWCG. Too many site specific variables to include in this guess. But it will be very little additional.
Add +$1,000 to cost if one has to replace the main control unit over the 30 years....

 

[Bperry]

Using Circupool RJ60+ as a base. 7 yr warranty - so let's use that for cell lifespan. $1629 current cost. 3 more cells ($749 ea) over the years = $2247. Initial salt (est) = $70, yearly (2 bags) = 29*14 = $476
So roughly $4350 over 30 yrs. Bump it up by $2000 as a wag if paying someone to install. Net ~$6,350. So $3650 saved over the years. More if DIY. More if one shops Circupools frequent sales. More if one adds in milage saved going to the store. More if one adds in the reduction in use of chem test supplies over the years.

And, there is a possible other gigantic saving - running (or buying and running) a VS pump on low 24/7 - but that huge savings is very site and operation specific as to "how much".
Not factored in - the minimal increase in electric cost for running a SWCG. Too many site specific variables to include in this guess. But it will be very little additional.
Add +$1,000 to cost if one has to replace the main control unit over the 30 years....

Also need to account for inflation over 30 years… liquid chlorine isn’t going down in price. 30 years is too long to account for all those variables so I think it’s a bit silly to try.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

A more accurate analysis would be to look at the costs over the life of the initial cell purchase (+ installation) and the cost of one replacement cell. At the very lowest end, a SWG install plus one replacement would be roughly 10 years (assuming a 5 year cell life which is pretty low). There’s no need to factor in salt as it is too cheap to have any effect. Same is true with any other chemical. We’ve done these analyses before on TFP many times and even back in the days when LC was cheap (I used to buy it for a few bucks a gallon back in the early 20-teens) the cost of an SWG was pretty much the same or less than the cost of all the LC you’d buy over the same time period. The true cost savings is in the lower workload on the pool owner and, for many who travel either on business or pleasure, the ability to leave the pool unattended for weeks on end without worry. Last year we did a 10-day vacation and the pool was unattended the entire time. Left with a clear pool and came back to a clear pool. Not once did I give it a second thought while away. That level of “savings” can’t be easily priced …

 

[sande005]

Also need to account for inflation over 30 years… liquid chlorine isn’t going down in price. 30 years is too long to account for all those variables so I think it’s a bit silly to try.

Ditto. Will the cost be worth the vast improvement in general life (time fooling with the pool) over a more moderate time span? Hands down, I vote yes, even if it all goes south and I have to replace everything every 3-4 years!

 

[Newdude]

Everyone use the expected lifespan and output of the individual cell when running #s.

'My neighbor needs a new cell every 3 years' means nothing when he has an undersized cell or a much larger pool than you.

Using non TFP happenings makes it even worse when the chemistry or cell is mismanaged.

A longer season (more runtime off the lifespan) can be mitigated with a larger cell. Many can go 3X or 4X and put the ROI heavily back in their favor as they don't cost nearly as much to upgrade in relation to the lifespan gained. Going 20k to 40k adds 100% more life for 20% more cost. Going 40k to 60k gets 50% more like for 20% more cost. So going 20k to 60k gets 300% more life for 44% (compounded) more cost.

@poolfection, an IC60 will make a little over 1000 gallons worth of 10% LC, FC to FC. 1000 jugs at Walmart is well over $6000 for any of us purchasing there and even the first IC60 with install costs would be in the $3ks. Replacement cells which don't need the $500 controller and install costs would return about 3.5 to 1 at $1800.

The numbers fluctuate per the individual cells, say, that circupool produces more for longer, or a smaller Hayward cell (etc) is needed for automation.

But they're all good ROI, and the *not lugging* 700 to 1000 jugs cannot be overstated.

 

[reggiehammond]

I don't think that's good advice given these things need to be replaced relatively frequently so it's like saying the cost for liquid chlorine is in the first trip only.

If ordering a replacement cell online, that's conveniently delivered to your doorstep, every 4-5+ years is a hassle compared to lugging jugs weekly, then ok.

For me, I'd rather fill in my pool with dirt than give up my SWCG.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

@PoolStored use to be a jug-lugging Stenner pump running LC addict until we got him off the juice and he found some Zen after installing his SWG. Now he is all -

But I’m sure he can add some wisdom from his days as an LC junky using a Stenner pump ….

 

[Newdude]

I tried hard with him. Pages and pages of convincing. In the end he put me on blast for not trying harder.

 

[wayner]

The SWCG pays for financially itself in just a few years and pays for itself in simplicity in a few days.

Absolutely. Getting a SWCG was the best pool decision I ever made.

 

[Bperry]

I suppose the folks who are acid washing their salt cell every 3-6 months may be part of the problem with cells only lasting 3 years

 

[Donldson]

I suppose the folks who are acid washing their salt cell every 3-6 months may be part of the problem with cells only lasting 3 years

You just have to think about the people not operating their pools to TFPC. First they are instructed to keep their TA too high because there's no consideration of chlorination type in pool store recommendations. So the pH has to be sitting high almost all the time. That high pH is going to increase scaling and if they're outsourcing that then the tech is probably just dumping straight muriatic acid on the cell so he can get it done and get to the next job. And with that constant pH rise comes constant acid demand, and what do pool stores sell for that? Sodium Bisulfate. So now we have a cell that's regularly getting acid washed and bathed in sulfates.

Now take all that and add in that their CYA is likely lower than we'd recommend and the cell is not oversized as we'd recommend. That will all lead to longer daily run time, plus the 'required' weekly Super Chlorinate cycle.

Add all that together and 3 years actually sounds like a good life for a cell that abused.

 

[Uhhello]

My initial cell lasted almost 5 years even with no having discovered TFP until about the 4 year mark. High PH/TA and very hard water with heavy acid baths to remove the massive amounts of scale every few months and it still lasted a long time comparatively.

 

[Deb04]

Our initial cell lasted 13 yrs. The second cell is on yr 6 and doing fine. Ok, my cell operates only 6 mos a year, so justified to cut those numbers in 1/2 for a pool that's open all year.

 

[wayner]

13 years is pretty amazing. My pool is open for about 5 months per year and my Jandy Aquapure 1400 cells have typically died at about 5 years. I am now using a third party replacement that was much cheaper.

 

[Newdude]

Again, the 'months open' aren't equal, even on the same pool. As the UV demand builds up or dwindleds down, we all use much less runtime outside of the peak season.

But if you assess that you need X FC per season, you can translate that # into runtime hours per season and use the expected lifespan of the cell to guesstimate how long it should last for ones circumstances.

When anyone runs those #s, the SWG wins everytime and usually by alot with the install costs being spread evenly over several cells. (Albeit with an upfront hit to install it).