Liquid chlorine questions

[poolfection]

Rather than spending tons of time researching online I figured I'd come here where I can avoid the marketing hoopla and ask those with practical experience.
I'm tired of using the chlorine pucks only to still not be able to get my chlorine levels to acceptable levels. I've had to keep supplementing the tabs with frequent granulated shocking as well as liquid sodium hypochlorite, and while I manage to keep the water crystal clear it's not only a pain I'm always in reactive mode.

Basically, I wanted to know if there's automated dispensers for liquid chlorine, hopefully ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, and don't require me to totally re-plumb my entire system.
One related note, does anybody know how to compare cost effectiveness of 10% versus 12.5%? Local pool store sells 12.5% for $10/gal and Home Depot has 10% for $6.67/gal, which gives more for the money?

PS. If chlorine lock exists then I must have it, my Free Chlorine, no matter what way I've tested, has come up at basically zero all season long.

 

[Bperry]

Rather than spending tons of time researching online I figured I'd come here where I can avoid the marketing hoopla and ask those with practical experience.
I'm tired of using the chlorine pucks only to still not be able to get my chlorine levels to acceptable levels. I've had to keep supplementing the tabs with frequent granulated shocking as well as liquid sodium hypochlorite, and while I manage to keep the water crystal clear it's not only a pain I'm always in reactive mode.

Basically, I wanted to know if there's automated dispensers for liquid chlorine, hopefully ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, and don't require me to totally re-plumb my entire system.
One related note, does anybody know how to compare cost effectiveness of 10% versus 12.5%? Local pool store sells 12.5% for $10/gal and Home Depot has 10% for $6.67/gal, which gives more for the money?

PS. If chlorine lock exists then I must have it, my Free Chlorine, no matter what way I've tested, has come up at basically zero all season long.

How are you testing the water. Chlorine lock is not a thing. If finances are the issue, a salt chlorinator is the least $ per FC.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Before going after a specific chlorine dispensing system, the pool needs to be brought to balance. You may have clear water but that’s not a sign of clean water. Having zero FC all the time means you’re probably just hanging on the edge of an algae bloom.

Get the recommended test kits and do the testing. You will likely need to SLAM your pool. Then, once you can actually get the water balanced and hold a specific sanitizer level, then you can run down dispensing alternatives. Throwing more equipment onto to your pool is not going to solve the problem you are describing.

 

[Lake Placid]

I apologize upfront for being brash. Chlorine Lock is a stupid term pool stores and the industry uses to avoid admitting that CYA overdose is an actual thing. Meanwhile selling you all kinds of algecide, clarifiers, and other “remedies”, while keeping the you addicted to Trichlor tabs. As others have said if you address the actual issue, with proven data via accurate testing, you can correct your issues and the decide if more or alternative equipment is actually beneficial.

 

[poolfection]

Thanks everybody for your anwers. Please don't take this as me being ungrateful. Unfortunately, nobody answered the question of automated dispensers for liquid chlorine. Going thru all of the recommended steps that everyone on TFP has listed both here on the many, many other threads I've read on TFP may get me to a known state of all chemistry levels, but that still doesn't answer the question of am I still addicted to TABs. I have in the past done the drain down to get CYA down and quite frankly unless I do an entire drain/refill, the process was so lenghty and worked so poorly that it's not worth the effort. Taking the water level down to where the pump is sucking air, then refilling, then draining again, then refilling, and repeat that continuously is not only laborious, it takes forever and still didn't resolve anything. Especially since the TABs just put it back in again and again.
What I really wanted to know is if there is an alternative to the stabilized TABs that are a vicious cycle, and not the Salt generators, I know of them. I've looked online, haven't seen anything that automatically dispenses liquid chlorine but wanted to ask anyway.
Thanks,
Roger

 

[proavia]

Stenner pump or Liquidator

SWG is still the best bang for the buck though.

 

[reggiehammond]

Thanks everybody for your anwers. Please don't take this as me being ungrateful. Unfortunately, nobody answered the question of automated dispensers for liquid chlorine. Going thru all of the recommended steps that everyone on TFP has listed both here on the many, many other threads I've read on TFP may get me to a known state of all chemistry levels, but that still doesn't answer the question of am I still addicted to TABs. I have in the past done the drain down to get CYA down and quite frankly unless I do an entire drain/refill, the process was so lenghty and worked so poorly that it's not worth the effort. Taking the water level down to where the pump is sucking air, then refilling, then draining again, then refilling, and repeat that continuously is not only laborious, it takes forever and still didn't resolve anything. Especially since the TABs just put it back in again and again.
What I really wanted to know is if there is an alternative to the stabilized TABs that are a vicious cycle, and not the Salt generators, I know of them. I've looked online, haven't seen anything that automatically dispenses liquid chlorine but wanted to ask anyway.
Thanks,
Roger

Why continue to overpay for liquid chlorine, worry about heat-related degradation, adding additional equipment, etc when the better, less expensive option of a SWCG is on the table? A SWCG gives you the chlorine you need, for one upfront cost, requiring no further trips to the store.

To lower CYA, you need to drain, not dilute. Diluting just costs you more $$ in water usage and actually doesn't solve the problem of imbalance of FC/CYA Levels.

Sorry you're finding out that the pool industry is built on a house of lies, but it is what it is. TFP offers much easier, cheaper, science-backed methods. Get a proper test kit, find out where you are, and let's get you on the path to How Clear is TFP Clear?

 

[Bperry]

Thanks everybody for your anwers. Please don't take this as me being ungrateful. Unfortunately, nobody answered the question of automated dispensers for liquid chlorine. Going thru all of the recommended steps that everyone on TFP has listed both here on the many, many other threads I've read on TFP may get me to a known state of all chemistry levels, but that still doesn't answer the question of am I still addicted to TABs. I have in the past done the drain down to get CYA down and quite frankly unless I do an entire drain/refill, the process was so lenghty and worked so poorly that it's not worth the effort. Taking the water level down to where the pump is sucking air, then refilling, then draining again, then refilling, and repeat that continuously is not only laborious, it takes forever and still didn't resolve anything. Especially since the TABs just put it back in again and again.
What I really wanted to know is if there is an alternative to the stabilized TABs that are a vicious cycle, and not the Salt generators, I know of them. I've looked online, haven't seen anything that automatically dispenses liquid chlorine but wanted to ask anyway.
Thanks,
Roger

The only other option for liquid chlorine dispensing is a stenner pump as mentioned earlier. But that’s not the simplest or cheapest option.

If you do decide to drain again, use a sump pump and not your pool pump. It’ll save water and be faster since you don’t have to dump partially mixed water multiple times.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

You can also do an exchange-drain that doesn’t change the level of the pool water. The details are in the link below but you basically drain water from the lowest point in your pool and add fresh water at the opposite end of the pool at the surface. There’s some fine details to get it right but it basically works because the colder higher TDS water from the pool and the fresh water from a hose basically stays separated as long as you don’t introduce any mixing. I did in my pool a few years ago and was able to drastically reduce my CH without the water level ever going below the tile line.

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Also, don’t reject the idea of an SWG out of hand but what you may have heard about them from pool stores or online. I realize that TFP is just another source of information to you, but you always need to ask yourself - “What’s in it for them?” Pool stores, some service business and many online sources have a bias because SWGs impact their bottom line. TFP is free and we are all volunteers here and have no bias except to help people have great pools. There is tons and tons of bad information about SWGs on the internet along with lots of absolutely wrong chemistry. So feel free to post questions about why you wouldn’t install one and perhaps we can help dispel a lot of the garbage that’s out there … they truly are one of the best investments in pool sanitation methods you can make. Expensive … yes, upfront perhaps, but cheaper in the long run and A LOT less hassle.

Stenner pumps and The Liquidator can work too, but they are generally more of a hassle and, as others have pointed out, you are stilled tied to having to procure, transport, and lug every jug of liquid chlorine over to your pool equipment.

 

[sacredcow]

You can absolutely install a pump- If you search on the forum, you can find some pretty ingenious setups that people have installed. If you keyword "stenner," you'll get plenty of results. But as others have pointed out, it isn't necessarily easy or inexpensive.

That said, if you get everything in check per the parameters recommended here? You can get completely out of that reactive loop and make the day to day maintenance ridiculously easy. Before I switched to an SWG, I seriously doubt I spent more than 30 minutes a week on the basic maintenance (not counting any storm cleanup or larger maintenance jobs such as filter cleanings). And I was just chlorinating by adding liquid chlorine in front of a return. It's all about getting everything balanced and maintaining this balance.

Good luck!

 

[Lake Placid]

As a service pro I’d tell you to heavily consider installing a SWG every day of the week and twice on Sunday….especially if you’re going to manage the pool yourself. Life becomes a lot easier. Yes the upfront cost seems steep but it’s most economical in the long run. For liquid you can run a HASA Liqidator or a Stenner system. Both can work for you, but the option you choose may be dependent upon your skill sets for both installation and future repair. There are other DIY options with Stenner pumps and or Blue White pumps (I don’t prefer or recommend blue white) depending on your ability and skills, but an out of the box system may be easiest and most applicable.

 

[sande005]

One related note, does anybody know how to compare cost effectiveness of 10% versus 12.5%? Local pool store sells 12.5% for $10/gal and Home Depot has 10% for $6.67/gal, which gives more for the money?

The Pool Math App for your phone has a Bleach calculator to help compare - for what you posted, the Home Depot is the better deal.

I just have to jump on the SWCG bandwagon, also. I'm guessing you will need to add about 2/3-3/4 gallon per day once things get stabilized. Just for the main season (120 days) that's $528 just in liquid Cl. Won't take more than a few years to completely pay off that SWCG.....and no lugging and pouring.

 

[QingGuy]

@poolfection - Where I live Walmart has 10% LQ for $5.44 a gallon. In my case I go through about 56 oz a day or $2.38 per day. I have a cost spreadsheet (see screenshot) if you'd be interested in it. The app may do this but I put this together a couple years ago so it's what I use.

For those recommending a SWG, what are you using for its lifespan when saying a SWG is more bang for your buck? When I ran the numbers a couple of years ago on replacing my SWG, my ROI was 3.5 years, and in the straw poll I did here, most said their SWGs went out 3-4 years (warranty was only two I believe) after installation. My IC40 lasted 7 seasons. I didn't want to count on getting another unit to go 7 seasons, so I switched to LQ. Just curious.

EDIT: My spreadsheet lists "season",the season I'm referring to is June-September, high usage and burnoff time for us.

 

[Deb04]

If you have Ocean State Job Lots near you, their 12.5% chlorine is $5.99/gallon.

 

[Bperry]

@poolfection - Where I live Walmart has 10% LQ for $5.44 a gallon. In my case I go through about 56 oz a day or $2.38 per day. I have a cost spreadsheet (see screenshot) if you'd be interested in it. The app may do this but I put this together a couple years ago so it's what I use.

For those recommending a SWG, what are you using for its lifespan when saying a SWG is more bang for your buck? When I ran the numbers a couple of years ago on replacing my SWG, my ROI was 3.5 years, and in the straw poll I did here, most said their SWGs went out 3-4 years (warranty was only two I believe) after installation. My IC40 lasted 7 seasons. I didn't want to count on getting another unit to go 7 seasons, so I switched to LQ. Just curious.

EDIT: My spreadsheet lists "season",the season I'm referring to is June-September, high usage and burnoff time for us.

4 years would be a short lifespan. That’s why TFP recommends a salt cell rated for twice your pool size as it lasts much longer that way.

 

[Donldson]

and in the straw poll I did here, most said their SWGs went out 3-4 years

Could you link to the referenced poll? I cannot find it.

 

[Raganbogan]

I’ve got a SWCG for my pool, but I also manage my sister’s chlorine pool. I get a gallon of 12.5% chlorine from Menards for $4.50-4.99. I have her on a routine of adding 2 cups whenever I can’t get over there to test and be certain of the level. I’ve been able to keep it between 4-8 ppm without any hassle, and she can’t afford to spend the money for a SWCG this year, so I think once you get it stable you could find it easy and inexpensive to maintain it.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

My first cell (IC-40) lasted 8 years. It could have gone longer and there was some water chemistry issues that I believe shortened its lifespan. I replaced it before it was fully done.

My current cell (IC60 … it was worth upgrading to the larger cell) has been installed 4 years. I expect to get at least as much life out of it as I did my original cell.

4 year life span is very much a low, low, low-end number. I’d peg the average life span at 6 years easily as long as water chemistry is maintained properly.

 

[Gary Davis]

A SWCG gives you the chlorine you need, for one upfront cost, requiring no further trips to the store.

I don't think that's good advice given these things need to be replaced relatively frequently so it's like saying the cost for liquid chlorine is in the first trip only.
There are more trips for liquid chlorine, just as there are more costs for SWCG pools other than just the first day's costs.

A more accurate costs assessment should probably include the costs over about 30 years for
a. Going to the store frequently to trade in HASA chlorine cases, versus
b. Staying at home but relatively frequently replacing SWCG equipment

The true costs would have to account for 30 years of use (or so), not just the initial upfront costs of the first day only.