Let the games begin

[gunslinger747]

New pool owner here. Inground pool with a sand filter, approximately 20,000 gallons. In the last six weeks have spent many hundreds if not over $1000 at Leslie’s; chlorine tabs, metal remover, clarifier, algaecide, alkalinity up, shock powder, and more I can’t remember.

Then I found this website, read many articles, and ordered my TF-Pro test kit with smart stir, standard samples, and SLAM option! Grateful this exists!

Did my first test last night! Felt like a mad scientist with all my bottles and magic light up stirring thing. Need to make some adjustments, I think.

Trying to get the pool balanced before closing this weekend. I have Leslie’s scheduled to close the pool for me for $450. Could I cancel the appointment and close it myself? Or should I observe the guys the first time to learn how to do it for next year?

 

[HermanTX]

Welcome and thanks for the update.
Given your situation, I would let someone else close so they can provide the plugs and the equipment to blow out your lines.
Take lots of pictures/videos and you may be able to handle the opening without their assistance.

Suggest you plan to switch to liquid chlorine and stay away from pucks. Pucks have their limited usefulness such as when you go on vacation for 7-10 days. They do not really expire so it is not wasted $$$, just that you won’t have much use for them other than for short term needs.
I know you said you been reading on the forum but need to understand FC/CYA Levels as that is critical to avoid algae next year.
Also read Pool Care Basics if you have not found that.

Glad you got the proper test kit. It will become easier as you do it more.

when you get a chance, consider adding the description of your setup which you put in your first post but add to it, to your Signature, which will aid the experts to quickly tailor responses to your pool and equipment, and you won't need to repeat it in future posts.

 

[Jimrahbe]

747,

I live in Texas where we don't close our pools, so I can't be any help with your closing question..

I just wanted to say it looks like you are certainly headed in the right direction..

Let's see if @Newdude has any words of wisdom for you...

I know if I were in your shoes, I'd like to see first hand how they closed the pool with the idea being that I would open and close it the next year.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Newdude]

Hey GS and Welcome !!!

The path to TFP is beaten far and wode from wherst you came. We call it being @PoolStored and it's gotten many of us. Getting here is the hard part, then we take over and it's smooth sailing ahead.

If you're the least bit handy, you can totally close yourself this year. It's also a great idea to watch them close one last time, with the mentality that you're learning how to do it yourself this time. Like Herman said, take 1000 pics and not only can you retrace them in order, but you can watch them backwards in the spring for opening.

You have plenty of time in PA to turn the pool around and close the pool either way. You prefer to beat the big freeze, and that's a ways off still. Cancel this weeks appointment for now.

You need a reliable test kit to take control. It's a fraction of what you've spent and it will ensure you never need to again. Any last one of us will tell you from personal experience that it's the best pool invesent you can make. The TFpro(salt if applicable) is the hands down winner based upon how we do things. Both it and the TF100 were designed with our methods in mind where the Taylor kits, although functional with the same supplies, have quantities that aren't best for our ways.

In the short term, you need the Test Kits Compared to SLAM Process. Lets ignore the stores inaccurate testing designed to sell you designer chemicals for a moment. They simply aren't open early and late when you'll need testing and they simply won't test you many times a day for free in order to clear the pool. All of those tests will only be for chlorine and you'll have your own stash and they'll get snippy when you repeatedly walk out of there empty handed, because the free test is anything but.

Read up on the Pool Care Basics and the slam atricle. We will be happy to assist, first with the water and then with the close, even if it's helping you watch them. Like handing each worker $20 when they *arrive*. I call it a pre-tip and it greatly affects their attitude when you tell them you will shadow them and need to learn. They'll likely even spill their guts helping you learn once they know that you paid for a decent lunch that day.

 

[JJ_Tex]

Gunslinger is way different than most people on their first post. They actually discovered TFP, read up on TFP, received their test kit and started tackling their own problem before their first post. Good job and welcome!

As others have said, I would tackle the SLAM and clear up your pool before closing. Then you can read up on closing and figure out if that is something else you can tackle.

PS - I'm guessing you already have found the SLAM article, but just in case:

SLAM - Shock Level and Maintain

We’ve all had to deal with a green pool. Clear algae from your pool with a SLAM! Read here to use shock level and maintain to clear your pool.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Newdude]

received their test kit and started tackling their own problem before their first post

I read that. It even registered. But 0 dark 30 and the coffee hadn't worked yet.

 

[JJ_Tex]

I read that. It even registered. But 0 dark 30 and the coffee hadn't worked yet.

Ha, trust me I was going to do the same when I first read it too but luckily I had 1/2 a cup of coffee in me and noticed the TFP Pro sitting on the diving board.

 

[wireform]

Welcome @gunslinger747,
Your ahead of most and have been through Leslie's and now here with your own testing kit, great move. Your test results lack the "CC" which anything above .5 is a sign of algae but I can tell you it's there just by the pool color. You would need to start with a
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to really know what's going on but frankly your not going to get any if much swimming in anymore this season and the foliage will be dropping in the water uncontrollably very shortly. Liquid chlorine is not being sold much anywhere in this neck of the USA this time of the year so my opinion close now and get an early start next year. If your a solid DIY'er I'd say maybe to close yourself but as it's been mentioned above have a company do it this year and the cost will be a schooling fee on your part to get more or less the jist of it. A bad move on your closing can cost major $$$ and struggle next season with repairs which are not fun. Be ahead of it close now and revisit next season.

 

[SJPoe]

Ahh...I love the smell of phenolsulfonphthalein in the morning...

 

[Newdude]

Liquid chlorine is not being sold much anywhere in this neck of the USA this time of the year

+1. The only stash i found was 4 month old HDX that sat outside in the heat and partial sun all summer at home depot and it was $9.06 a gallon. Ouch.

 

[sande005]

Can't give specifics, as I am unsure as to what configuration/equipment you have.
Advice to see what Leslie's does can be beneficial - have they defined what they will be doing for the $450?
There's generally a few major stages to closing, sometimes the order gets juggled a bit:

1. Getting the chem's in line.
2. Lowering the pool to below the outlets (jets)
3. Blowing out the plumbing and fully draining all equipement.
4. In some areas/preferences adding antifreeze.
5. Installing a cover.

In my area, if I was to hire, they only do #1 and #3. Now being a TFP person, you'll have #1 taken care of, anyway. So kind of pricey for only one item to get done. #3 needs equipment - best is a Cyclone blower, a compressor with a larger tank, or some have gotten lucky and can do it with a wet vac (but that is rare). So for me, the only reason to hire would be due to the added equipment needed. But the cost of closing justifies the cost to buy....

But, you are newer, and getting an on-site lesson can be beneficial. Couple it with lots of reading here before hand, and questioning the "guys" as to how/when/why they do something.

Can you do it on your own now? Of course! Just depends on how capable/overwhelmed you feel about it.

After the first, you'll be more than well equipped to do it again next year.


FYI - with some help from the spouse, total time for mine was 5 hrs to close. Most of it waiting for the pool to drain, while I did associated small things - take out ladders, put away stuff, organize the storage shed for the winter, etc.

 

[SJPoe]

New pool owner here. Inground pool with a sand filter, approximately 20,000 gallons.
...
Trying to get the pool balanced before closing this weekend. I have Leslie’s scheduled to close the pool for me for $450. Could I cancel the appointment and close it myself? Or should I observe the guys the first time to learn how to do it for next year?

So joking aside, welcome to the best thing for pools since water.

Closing the pool is probably the one thing I still have my local pool store do for me.

1. I have a lot of pipes under a lot of concrete. If something got messed up, missed and broke during the winter, having someone else to blame might be handy. Whether they'd ever take responsibility is another thing, but I look at it as fairly cheap insurance that the job is done right.
2. It's getting fracking cold out there, and I really don't want to be messing about with returns, pumps, vacuums etc while it's 45F and raining. I'll supervise from the Den with a nice cup of coffee.
3. That big mesh cover is fracking heavy. Yes, I can do it on my own, but it's a lot easier with two people, and a whole lot easier if neither of those two people is me.

$450 seems a bit high - local markets might be different, but I think mine last year was $300 without "the chemicals", and they usually have 3 guys on site for about an hour, so it doesn't seem overly excessive.
If they include 'chemicals', ask what they are including, and what it would be without them. Typically its a few bags of granular shock (Cal-Hypo) and maybe some polyquat-60, but given how cold our pools get over the winter, an algaecide is almost pointless. I usually have them open too because of #3, but I generally tell the pool guys not to put anything in the pool when they come. The last time they opened, they even remarked how clean and clear my pool was compared to most of the ones they visit. Again, it's usually just Cal-Hypo...

P.S. : Update your profile with your pool details etc - makes it easier for the brain trust here to tailor their advice to your specific setup

 

[sande005]

So joking aside, welcome to the best thing for pools since water.

Closing the pool is probably the one thing I still have my local pool store do for me.

1. I have a lot of pipes under a lot of concrete. If something got messed up, missed and broke during the winter, having someone else to blame might be handy. Whether they'd ever take responsibility is another thing, but I look at it as fairly cheap insurance that the job is done right.
2. It's getting fracking cold out there, and I really don't want to be messing about with returns, pumps, vacuums etc while it's 45F and raining. I'll supervise from the Den with a nice cup of coffee.
3. That big mesh cover is fracking heavy. Yes, I can do it on my own, but it's a lot easier with two people, and a whole lot easier if neither of those two people is me.

$450 seems a bit high - local markets might be different, but I think mine last year was $300 without "the chemicals", and they usually have 3 guys on site for about an hour, so it doesn't seem overly excessive.
If they include 'chemicals', ask what they are including, and what it would be without them. Typically its a few bags of granular shock (Cal-Hypo) and maybe some polyquat-60, but given how cold our pools get over the winter, an algaecide is almost pointless. I usually have them open too because of #3, but I generally tell the pool guys not to put anything in the pool when they come. The last time they opened, they even remarked how clean and clear my pool was compared to most of the ones they visit. Again, it's usually just Cal-Hypo...

P.S. : Update your profile with your pool details etc - makes it easier for the brain trust here to tailor their advice to your specific setup

I would pay to have that cover put on too! But my local store wants the closing to be $450 PLUS $200 for just the cover....

But I have a lawn guy that may do it for much less. Gettin' too old (knees and dealing with the anchors) to DIY anymore....

 

[SJPoe]

my local store wants the closing to be $450 PLUS $200 for just the cover....

The first time they charge me that is the last time they'll be doing the closing. I have a full grown son, he can come help me move stuff

 

[jwiegley]

I too have paid the "Leslie's before finding TFP" tuition fee.

 

[gunslinger747]

Welcome and thanks for the update.
Given your situation, I would let someone else close so they can provide the plugs and the equipment to blow out your lines.
Take lots of pictures/videos and you may be able to handle the opening without their assistance.

Suggest you plan to switch to liquid chlorine and stay away from pucks. Pucks have their limited usefulness such as when you go on vacation for 7-10 days. They do not really expire so it is not wasted $$$, just that you won’t have much use for them other than for short term needs.
I know you said you been reading on the forum but need to understand FC/CYA Levels as that is critical to avoid algae next year.
Also read Pool Care Basics if you have not found that.

Glad you got the proper test kit. It will become easier as you do it more.

when you get a chance, consider adding the description of your setup which you put in your first post but add to it, to your Signature, which will aid the experts to quickly tailor responses to your pool and equipment, and you won't need to repeat it in future posts.

Thanks for the reply! Just added those details to my signature!

I should have mentioned it in my first post...before I received the TF-Pro test kit I was going to Leslie's for testing (I know, inaccurate at best, as proved again in my experience here). I was trying to start with TFP methods while waiting for the kit, using Leslie's test data, so I did buy 4 gallons of liquid chlorine (12.5%) from Leslie's (with a very recent date so I was pleased)! I did two very imperfect SLAM cycles last week - using the poolmath app but basing on leslie's test data - before receiving my test kit.

Thanks for the tip; I am glad to hear the pucks will keep so I will keep the them for vacations and such since I bought the biggest bucket they had thinking I was economizing.

 

[gunslinger747]

Hey GS and Welcome !!!

The path to TFP is beaten far and wode from wherst you came. We call it being @PoolStored and it's gotten many of us. Getting here is the hard part, then we take over and it's smooth sailing ahead.

If you're the least bit handy, you can totally close yourself this year. It's also a great idea to watch them close one last time, with the mentality that you're learning how to do it yourself this time. Like @herman said, take 1000 pics and not only can you retrace them in order, but you can watch them backwards in the spring for opening.

You have plenty of time in PA to turn the pool around and close the pool either way. You prefer to beat the big freeze, and that's a ways off still. Cancel this weeks appointment for now.

You need a reliable test kit to take control. It's a fraction of what you've spent and it will ensure you never need to again. Any last one of us will tell you from personal experience that it's the best pool invesent you can make. The TFpro(salt if applicable) is the hands down winner based upon how we do things. Both it and the TF100 were designed with our methods in mind where the Taylor kits, although functional with the same supplies, have quantities that aren't best for our ways.

In the short term, you need the Test Kits Compared to SLAM Process. Lets ignore the stores inaccurate testing designed to sell you designer chemicals for a moment. They simply aren't open early and late when you'll need testing and they simply won't test you many times a day for free in order to clear the pool. All of those tests will only be for chlorine and you'll have your own stash and they'll get snippy when you repeatedly walk out of there empty handed, because the free test is anything but.

Read up on the Pool Care Basics and the slam atricle. We will be happy to assist, first with the water and then with the close, even if it's helping you watch them. Like handing each worker $20 when they *arrive*. I call it a pre-tip and it greatly affects their attitude when you tell them you will shadow them and need to learn. They'll likely even spill their guts helping you learn once they know that you paid for a decent lunch that day.

Thanks very much for the reply! I appreciate the encouragement. I rescheduled the Leslie's closing appointment to later next week to give myself a little more time to test and balance now that I have a proper (TF-Pro) test kit, and to give myself the chance to reconsider just cancelling the appointment outright and doing it all myself! I bought the SLAM option and the standard samples so I can practice and confirm my results.

My current thinking is that if I can avoid the $450 Leslie's charge for the closing (this did not include installing the cover, BTW!), then I can invest that money in the equipment to do it myself. With the help of this forum community, I hope/believe/think/trust (?) that I can close it myself! Just need some time to figure it out.

We just moved to this house and I have never been a pool owner before so I am starting from scratch. I have no plugs (or have not found them but) and I found the cover in the shed!

 

[gunslinger747]

Can't give specifics, as I am unsure as to what configuration/equipment you have.
Advice to see what Leslie's does can be beneficial - have they defined what they will be doing for the $450?
There's generally a few major stages to closing, sometimes the order gets juggled a bit:

1. Getting the chem's in line.
2. Lowering the pool to below the outlets (jets)
3. Blowing out the plumbing and fully draining all equipement.
4. In some areas/preferences adding antifreeze.
5. Installing a cover.

In my area, if I was to hire, they only do #1 and #3. Now being a TFP person, you'll have #1 taken care of, anyway. So kind of pricey for only one item to get done. #3 needs equipment - best is a Cyclone blower, a compressor with a larger tank, or some have gotten lucky and can do it with a wet vac (but that is rare). So for me, the only reason to hire would be due to the added equipment needed. But the cost of closing justifies the cost to buy....

But, you are newer, and getting an on-site lesson can be beneficial. Couple it with lots of reading here before hand, and questioning the "guys" as to how/when/why they do something.

Can you do it on your own now? Of course! Just depends on how capable/overwhelmed you feel about it.

After the first, you'll be more than well equipped to do it again next year.


FYI - with some help from the spouse, total time for mine was 5 hrs to close. Most of it waiting for the pool to drain, while I did associated small things - take out ladders, put away stuff, organize the storage shed for the winter, etc.

Very helpful reply, thank you!

I think I am going to ATTEMPT to tackle it myself. I rescheduled the Leslie's appointment to next week to give myself the chance to study up and cancel if I develop the confidence to tackle it myself.

If I am identifying the correct cyclone blower via Google search, it seems they run around $350-400. So I could pay for the equipment by avoiding even just this first visit from Leslie's!

I don't want to be overconfident and I am a total newbie, but I am eager to learn, have a strong desire for independence from the pool store, a tendency toward thrift, and have some technical aptitude (I am a mechanical engineer, not that that means anything really and certainly I am currently an ignoramus when it comes to pools).

 

[Newdude]

I could pay for the equipment by avoiding even just this first visit from Leslie's!

Yup. And with one use a year, it'll be in your will one day.

It will also do sprinkler systems with a some adapter MacGuyvering. It's another bogus expense for many of us, my guy charged me over $200 last year. He came over with a residential compressor and I took pics of it. Then I bought the next size from the same brand with more PSI and CFM.

I don't want to be overconfident and I am a total newbie,

We got you. And then some.

We will help you hatch a plan, but you won't calm your nerves until you try it. You'll shove the Cyclone hose in the skimmer and water will blast out somewhere. Then you turn a valve and it blasts out somewhere else. At the 1 minute mark, the light bulb goes off and you now TOTALLY get it. You already know how to work your system so it's now just a matter of getting each leg. You turn the remaining valves and everything is blown in literally minutes.

identifying the correct cyclone blower via Google search, it seems they run around $350-400.

That's the one. The orange beast.

 

[sande005]

You may need some other items. Check your skimmers, maybe even post a pic - one opening in the bottom, or two (not including any that are capped off)? Does it have threads to screw something in?

If one opening, get some "Gizmos", one for each skimmer, if you don't have: Amazon.com others can advise if the skimmer is two holed, or other configuration.

The outlets may have "eyeballs" or other removable jets to direct water flow. Those will come off, and you then plug the lines, either with caps with o-rings from a pool store, or larger rubber expandable plugs.
Again, a picture can help guide as to how to get the jets apart for installing the plugs. You may again already have the pl;ugs/caps.

Do you have a hose for vacuuming things? Like: Amazon.com
You can use that with the cyclone to attach it to the plumbing.

If your skimmers are as above, then you'll need an adaptor for one end of the hose (the Cyclone comes with its own): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSVCLNLC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
(these aren't great, but are cheap, even if you end up with three. Or similar at a pool store where you can likely get just one).