Left My Turn Key Pool for a New One...Lost! Pentiar Intelli-Touch and More...

[1poolman1]

Pepper,

When you look under the skimmer basket, how many holes do you see???

I assume two.. If that is true, then the holes farthest from the water should be connected to the pump.

Depending on how things are plumbed, the 2nd hole may be plugged.. It could have a plug that you can see from the top, or it could be plugged from the bottom. When plugged at the bottom, the hole tends to fill with "junk".. I like Allen's idea to use a shop vac and see if you can suck all the junk out of the pipe.. Then confirm that the pipe is, or is not plugged under the skimmer.

Let's see if Poolman can answer the following question... @1poolman1

'When an old pool had two skimmers, did they ever connect one skimmer into the other skimmer?? If so how did they do it??"

Thanks,

Jim R.

With a T underground. Dumb, but many are built that way. When I used to vacuum pools with two skimmers plumbed that way, the only way to get enough suction was to put a plug in the one farthest from the pump.

 

[Dirk]

You can always count on Dirk for a hair-brained scheme...

Since @pepper958 has a spa, it's reasonable to assume one of the pipes at his suction manifold is for the spa, and the other for the pool. Which would confirm it's likely that the two skimmers are tee'd together somewhere underground.

There are several varieties of PVC components designed to cap PVC. They fit inside a pipe or fitting, and would be almost flush to the bottom of the skimmer, as to not interfere with the skimmer basket. If one could be found that would fit inside the hole in the bottom of the stronger skimmer, then a hole could be drilled though it to allow a reduced amount of suction from that skimmer. It would then just be a matter of experimenting with the size of the hole to balance the two skimmers. Start by drilling a small hole, and increase the size of the hole until the proper balance is achieved. In essence, it'd be the same as putting a gate valve at that end of that pipe.

It might not even need to be glued into place, so it could easily be removed if the idea doesn't work. Or just a couple drops of glue to keep it from floating, but not enough to keep it from being removed easily.

There may be a more elegant solution, but it's just a matter of reducing flow from one of the skimmers to balance the two.

Here's some examples that might work. They're only a couple bucks each, so not much of a gamble to experiment.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

I originally missed the fact that the OP has a Spa.. That said, I am not sure if he really has a spillover spa, or just an area in the pool that might be called a spa, but is really just part of the pool..

Let's see what the OP has to say..

@pepper958 Show us a couple of pics of your "Spa"..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

I am not sure if he really has a spillover spa, or just an area in the pool that might be called a spa

I made my assumption based on the two actuators, but yes, best to confirm.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Dirk,

You are 100% correct... I must be confusing this thread with and another thread, as it is clear as day that the two pipes coming into the pump are for the spa drain and the two skimmer (in series??)

I think someone else must have been using my PC while I was taking a nap..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pepper958]

@Jimrahbe the spa doesn't spill over from what I can tell. Photo attached. Any thoughts or assumptions?

@Dirk I like your solution. I will give this a go!

I also have an air leak, presumably on the suction side...the pump skimmer basket doesn't prime all the way. It does prime enough to run and keep it 'wet', and kick from Priming mode to Schedule 1, but I can see some air bubbles in the strainer basket. I took apart the check valve above the pump and cleaned it out thoroughly (lots of grass was in there), I took apart the pump skimmer and cleaned it too reattaching it with lubricant on the o-ring, and then disassembled the cartridge filter cleaned it thoroughly and put lubricant on the o-ring on the seat. I tightened the filter clamps to the moon and back thinking this was where my leak was, but it is no better today than it was yesterday. If I leave the pump on 1,500rpm-ish the pump basket is nearly full with water but if I raise it to 2,000rpm-plus the basket has a water level much lower. Never enough to sound like its cavitating or trip an error, but it is noticeable. The air valve on the filter also lets out a good amount of air before a steady stream of water. I tried spraying soapy water everywhere but no dice. Aside from this I'm not sure how to chase this down. Water level is fine in the pool and hasn't decreased and the check valve after the filter looks clear with no air bubbles.

I was going to get a new pump housing lid and cover but the local store didn't have them. Maybe its worth trying a new o-ring on the filter too? New filter clamps? Lost.

On a side note, the water is getting clearer!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

The spa has to get fresh water, so the two options are... a spillover, or a pipe between the spa and the pool that lets water move from the spa and into the pool.. Or, it could be that the original spa spilled over, and they modified the coping and covered it up?????

In any case, you should play with the two automated valve and see what happens.. Put both valves in the Pool mode and then in the Spa mode..

Right now both valve are set half way between the pool mode and spa mode.. Not a normal configuration at all.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

Pepper,

The spa has to get fresh water, so the two options are... a spillover, or a pipe between the spa and the pool that lets water move from the spa and into the pool.. Or, it could be that the original spa spilled over, and they modified the coping and covered it up?????

In any case, you should play with the two automated valve and see what happens.. Put both valves in the Pool mode and then in the Spa mode..

Right now both valve are set half way between the pool mode and spa mode.. Not a normal configuration at all.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Holy stone work Batman! Yikes, no disrespect intended, but this pool deck, spa and coping look like some sort of DIY job. How does the water circulate between the two bodies?!

@Jimrahbe, no spillover?! Could it be this was some sort of oversight? I, too, thought the mid-way positions on the valves was odd. Could it be that the previous owner was using that setting to mix the two bodies? Drawing from, and returning to, both bodies equally, filtering and chlorinating them together? If that's even possible, it must have been a nightmare to get the FC right in both bodies. Or to maintain the spa level?

I don't know IntelliTouch, but I think EasyTouch (ET) could solve for this, so maybe IntelliTouch can, too. My ET can handle two bodies, even if not connected. But you'd need an SWG to automate the chlorination. The ET can have two independent SWG settings for Pool and Spa, so you'd have to set it up so that the Pool got filtered and chlorinated by the SWG for X hours a day, then the Spa got filtered and chlorinated for Y hours a day. Because you can set the SWG output independently for each body, eventually you'd be able to figure out the scheduling and SWG outputs so that each body maintained a proper chlorine level.

 

[Dirk]

You can troubleshoot for a leak on some of your suction side plumbing like this:

 

[Dirk]

FYI, @pepper958, when you come up for air on this first round of, uh, challenges, you might explore for an expansion joint. There is supposed to be an expansion joint between the pool and deck. Typically, it is either between the shell and the underside of the coping, or between the coping and the rest of the deck. It's used to accommodate the different materials expanding and contracting differently due to the various temperatures involved. Without one, the pool and deck can tear each other apart.

If you're missing the joint, it might explain why some of your stone works seems to be pushed out of place. But we can come back to this later. Let's get your other issues sorted out first. (I just didn't want to forget to mention it later.)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

While there might be some work getting your pool up to speed, I just wanted to say that it is in an outstandingly awesome setting!!!

Wow!!

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pepper958]

@Jimrahbe I'll give this a go. I am hoping to see through the water a bit more in the next day or two because I honestly have no idea if there is a connection or something perhaps built into that wall. This setup was operational last season so whatever the previous owners were doing 'worked', but I too am totally perplexed as every pool/spa combo I've seen has some sort of spillover. When you say play with the automated valves, what do you mean by this? Do you mean open/close the CVA-24 valve above the check valve near the pump and essentially close off the pool suction side and then the spa suction side? And would these typically be electronically activated via the control panel in a perfect world? Thanks for the compliment too...looking forward to getting this sorted so I can actually enjoy it.

@Dirk good point. I am wondering if that is what was going on with the scheduling. There is an inline chlorinator so perhaps it would handle the pool and then the spa if the valves were able to be adjusted/scheduled via the IntelliTouch control?
Regarding the expansion joint, when I head out after the rain to try the water/air leak troubleshooting I'll look for this. In that photo above, is the top bubble showing that the expansion joint could be on the face of the wall at the top? And that would go all around the perimeter of the pool right?

 

[pepper958]

Thinking out loud here, if there are some air bubbles visible in this check valve, before the pump, air has to be leaking here or prior to here - right?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

Look at the IntelliTouch Control panel.. And see if the AUTO light is on or off..

If on, then do the following.. If not in Auto, stop and let me know..

The first button is "V" for valves.

To the left are 4 light.. Pool, Spa and two others

Most likely the Pool light is on. You can push the V button and the Pool light should go off and the Spa light should come on.

Push the V button again and the Spa light should go off and the Pool light should come back on..

The valves may or may not move.. I suspect they are in the manual mode.

Let me known what you find.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pepper958]

@Jimrahbe ah! So on the IC control panel, Service is lit on system control and Pool is lit as well. Valves/V, filter pump/F, and pool light/I are all off. Thoughts?

“see indoor control panel if flashing” is also flashing…but that of course is impossible right now.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

Your main panel has basically two modes.. Auto mode, which means the automation is running off an internal program, or Service Mode, which means that nothing will automatically happen. This is what a service tech would use when working on the pool.

Are you in the Service mode on purpose, because you have no remote in the house??

In theory, if you were in AUTO, the pump would run on a schedule, it would change speeds when programmed, the valves would move, when you selected Pool or Spa.. But, I have no clue what kind of program may, or may not, be in your IntellITouch.

You can cycle through the three modes, AUTO, Service, and Timeout, by pushing the System Control button.

Try it if you want, and see what happens.. You can always go back to Service.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[pepper958]

@Jimrahbe Correct. Currently have it in service mode just to bypass any schedules and get it running. No control panel in the house and the pump just says Key Error when in Auto mode.

If I press the Valve button while in service mode will that cause any issues? Will it get them to perhaps move?

Also tried the water/hose trick to try and find the suction leak but no dice.

Edit: I pressed valve and cycled to Spa but didn’t notice any change at all. For what it’s worth there’s a 3 position switch on the base of the CVA-24 valves that say On 1, Off, and On 2. Both are in the off (middle) position.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Pepper,

It appears someone shut both valves off, so they will not move automatically, and they have manually moved them to the middle position, which makes no sense to me.. In theory, your pool should be in the Pool mode or Spa mode, not in between..

Go see if you can manually turn the valves.. Some valve actuators will allow you to pull up on the handle and turn it, others do not.

In the Pool mode, the valves would be positioned so that they sucked water only from the Pool and returned all the water to the Pool
In the Spa mode, the valves would suck the water from the spa and return all the water to the spa.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Dirk]

There is an inline chlorinator so perhaps it would handle the pool and then the spa if the valves were able to be adjusted/scheduled via the IntelliTouch control?

Jim is working through the valve troubleshooting with you, so I don't want to confuse his process. He'll get you sorted, valve-wise. Short answer: yes.

In that photo above, is the top bubble showing that the expansion joint could be on the face of the wall at the top? And that would go all around the perimeter of the pool right?

It wouldn't be on the face of the wall, but you should be able to see the edge of it. The joint would be between the top of the pool shell and the underside of the coping. Yes, it would go all the way around. But don't get your hopes up. Usually, that type of expansion joint is used with a cantilevered deck, when there is no separate coping and the deck is one solid chunk that extends out past the shell over the pool. When there is a coping, typically the expansion joint is between the coping and the deck, like mine.

These illustrate the two typical types of expansion joints. If your coping is grouted to the top of your shell, then you'd need an expansion joint like this:





But if what looks like coping in your pool is actually attached somehow to the decking, then the expansion joint could be like this. If this is the case, you'd be able to see the joint, right where the caption "NO GROUT/NO CONTACT WITH COPING" is pointing. You might be able to touch it, and push on it and it would give a little, like rubber. (Not sure about that, though, because I've never actually seen one.) But if you see solid grout at that point, and your edge tile and the underside of you coping are "fused" together with grout, then that's not an expansion joint.

 

[Dirk]

I'm a little embarrassed that I noticed your slightly crooked tile before I noticed your view. Sorry 'bout that. IT'S STUNNING! I was in "troubleshooting mode!!"

When I bought house with pool, I had zero pool experience. I had to get help from an awful pool guy, who messed up my pool finish and sold me some stuff I didn't need. Blah, blah, blah. It wasn't until years later that I stumbled onto TFP, and in short order they helped me figure everything out! So while you've got some relatively minor sorting to do, you are way ahead of the game, because you found TFP straight away!!

You'll get there, and you'll get lots of help from our experts (like Jim), and the end result will be an amazing pool and yard and view!