Just got my bid need HELP!

Amazing input Dirk, Kim, and Blazer. Thanks.

It sounds like we will be in good shape going with the water depth of 6”, 12”, 18”, 24”, 30”, 36” setup on steps and benches.

To make it even more accommodating we might consider a 3” build up in one corner/side of the 9’ wide first step by where the temporary handrail could be installed when needed.

Here is what I’m thinking about...

View attachment 88233

Please let me know what y’all think about this set up.

I have a couple concerns, since you asked. With the 6" step, what will be the distance to the top of the coping? Is that why the 3" build up? Otherwise all the steps are 6" apart except the step out, which will be 10" or 12"?

But here's my bigger concern, correct me if I'm looking at this wrong. It seems like from anywhere in the pool, to get out, you have to start at the middle of the main pool, climb four steps to get to a bench, which is too deep to then just step out right there. So you then have to slog quite a distance, through 18" of water, to reach the next set of steps. And if you go left, you have another slog through 12" of water to get to the final steps out.

That does not sound like a comfortable, easy exit, even for sure-footed, able-bodied folks. I get the challenge of maintaining the swim lane, but I think this needs more thought...
 
I have a couple concerns, since you asked. With the 6" step, what will be the distance to the top of the coping? Is that why the 3" build up? Otherwise all the steps are 6" apart except the step out, which will be 10" or 12"?

But here's my bigger concern, correct me if I'm looking at this wrong. It seems like from anywhere in the pool, to get out, you have to start at the middle of the main pool, climb four steps to get to a bench, which is too deep to then just step out right there. So you then have to slog quite a distance, through 18" of water, to reach the next set of steps. And if you go left, you have another slog through 12" of water to get to the final steps out.

That does not sound like a comfortable, easy exit, even for sure-footed, able-bodied folks. I get the challenge of maintaining the swim lane, but I think this needs more thought...

Very Interesting Dirk. I haven’t even thought about this.

Lets talk this through...

We started out with no steps just one solid length-wise bench for tons of seating.

Then it became apparent this would cause an issue in the middle for playing volleyball and games which caused us to cut out the middle and 45 degree the ends.

Then we realized there would be no transition from the 18” bench to the floor for my folks to be able to walk the length for exercise or get back out afterwards. Hence the steps added to the end of the bench for transition to the floor for them to be able to exercise.

It seems that since the main goal is exercise that slogging is probably acceptable but not ideal, I agree. You have brought up a great point though that has me thinking but to be honest I don’t see a more improved alternative that still maintains the important uses of the pool.

What do you think?
 
I guess you have to first define the use scenarios, and their percentages, and then try to appease as much as possible. I didn't realize that middle cut out was for a sport/game reason. I got that you're trying to keep everything on the one side, and off the ends, to maintain the swim lane.

I think there will be some traffic between spa and pool. Some from spa into pool (jumping or stepping in for a cool down plunge), but mostly coming out of the cooler water to get into the spa to relax after a swim or game. I think that will happen a lot. So I think there should be a set of steps at that end of the pool, without having to "exercise" down the bench to get to them.

And there will be even more traffic between shelf and pool. That will get traversed a lot. Not everyone will want to jump/dive off the shelf into the pool. They'll want to step in, and be able to comfortably step out when done swimming. So I think you need a separate set of steps at that end, too.

My bench does get used (though I rarely sit on it). The kids use it some, as does their mother. You can see mine is pretty short. I can't remember a time when it was not long enough. I don't have a lot of big parties, but most kids and adults are playing in the pool, not sitting around in it, so a lot of seating has never been needed in my pool.

And think about it, say you do have enough slugs, uh, friends, to fill up all that bench real estate, and somebody wants to get out, what's the MO? Like a movie theater? Everybody has to stand up, so that the person using the steps can walk down the bench to get to the next steps? People that won't want to disturb the bench warmers are gunna be trapped, or will have to struggle up onto the bench to get out. I have a bench at one end of my pool, with no steps. It's easy for me to get up on it to sit, but not to get my feet up on it to stand up on, and no easier to then step from there to the coping. For someone of my age, a bench does not double as a step.

You're challenge is trying to squeeze a lounging pool and a swim-lane pool and a sports pool all in to a skinny shape. Something's gunna get compromised. Right now you're compromising ingress and especially egress. That might be "best case" for your use scenarios. It wouldn't be for mine, which is why I spotted it. Think about who will be using the pool, what they'll most likely be doing, and how you'll be using it as you and your other users get older.

And I'd be mindful of the last step out. As I showed you, my step heights are all equal, and 11" apart. That's about the max, and really a bit too tall. The lower steps on your way out, while you're still in the water, are easy, you're half-weightless. But the last step out there is no aid from the water, so the height of that one (from step to coping) is the most critical.

Sorry, only problems to present, no solutions. For me, I'd take care of the steps first, then figure out where to put benches. My quick-peek solution would be to design steps at each end, then a bit of space, then a rounded-ends bench on each side of the net. So steps, space, bench, space, bench, space, steps. See if that gets you enough seating. You'd have steps where you need them, and nobody would have to slog down a bench, or step over people, to get to them. Would that leave you enough space for two 6' benches? That's six people! Two 4' benches is seating for four.
 
There has been a lot of words on the step issue, so forgive me if I misinterpreted something. I think a potential solution to the concern about how to get out of the pool is to put an extra step at the middle of the pool end of one or both benches right where the steps go down into the pool. It will be a bit of a speed bump type step if you are walking along the bench, but if entering from the middle side, or exiting from those steps, it seems to solve the issue without removing much bench space.
 
What are you going to do the least? (Hint, it's not going to be getting in and out of the pool! ;) )

What about if you think of total time spent doing each activity.

In this case, getting in and out would be the activity that would have the least amount of time spent on it. Lounging, sitting, playing, exercising, soaking, floating, all of these activities will have more total time spent on them than the total time it takes to ingress/egress.

Dirk you have done a great job of getting me to think about this, what do you think about ^^^^

Bmoreswim, I’m not sure I follow your point.
 
What about if you think of total time spent doing each activity.

In this case, getting in and out would be the activity that would have the least amount of time spent on it. Lounging, sitting, playing, exercising, soaking, floating, all of these activities will have more total time spent on them than the total time it takes to ingress/egress.

That's an important consideration, for sure. I would counter with... of all the things you can or will do in your pool, what are the two things that you, and every other person that uses your pool, is going to do every single time? Get in, and get out.

So let's go about this from another angle. Let's take soaking, floating, lounging off the list. None of those will be affected by step or bench placement.

The bench doesn't affect the swim lane, neither would the steps, as you or I have imagined them. So that can come off. As can general playing in the pool.

I think this comes down to volleyball, sitting, and the steps, yes? Did I leave anything out?

I'm still thinking comfortable entry/exit (not jumping in, or climbing out) is going to necessitate a set of steps on at least one end of your pool or the other, not in the middle as you have them. The shelf end is the logical one. But I also still think you're going to make good use of steps leading to the spa. I'm just stuck there, I guess, steps on both ends, not in the middle. Getting in and out of the pool should not require a walk across a bench. I'm stuck on that, too.

So, what it comes down to, if you're following that logic: a bench or benches that start after the steps end, and there is either one long bench that spans the middle (to accommodate the max number of seats), or one that breaks in the middle to accommodate play at the net). My choice would be the latter, because, as I said, I don't think you need all that much bench. Remember, you have lots of lounge area on the shelf, and along the shelf, and in the spa. So unless you've got dozens of people, a lot of the time, half of which need to be sitting down all the time, I'm not too worried about places to sit.

The only other idea I've come up with: the bench runs the whole length of the pool, with or without the middle cut out, and there is a small step below the bench, one on each end, that would get people up on the bench. My bench only needs one step below it. Those two steps would encroach a bit into the swim lane, and into the "volleyball court," but not enough, I think, to really impact either activity. Then from the bench there would be another step to get out. Again, one on each end. Maybe the shelf would be the step out on the shelf end.

I don't have your pool's depth profile, or length or width, handy to give you any meaningful numbers, so you'd have to play around on some graph paper.

I would do just that. Draw your shell and spa and shelf on a piece of graph paper (the things that are in stone), and copy that a dozen times. Then just start drawing in all kinds of versions of steps and benches. Don't over think it, just get a lot of ideas down on paper. I use this trick a lot while designing. I'm not really after the final solution, it's a brain dump. Often times, something will emerge, or be inspired, during such an exercise that wouldn't have with any other process.

Post your contenders here, and we'll go from there.
 
Hmmm... There is one more design consideration that I keep coming back to that I haven’t mentioned yet, symmetry. With the very Geometric shape we have gone with it seems to me the symmetry is very important. Especially at night when it is lit up.

I understand the graph paper very well, the drawing I posted earlier is to scale, 1 box = 1 sq ft. I have gone through a ton of versions of the pool on graph paper. The PB design you saw in the pics is a version of my drawn and colored graph paper drawings I took them for our meeting.

Maybe the solution is that we should just put in inserts for a removable latter on the end by the spa opposite the bench steps.
 

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I say this is it! I get what Dirk is saying but think of how many pools have the main set of steps at the end of the pool so there is a lot of slogging to get to them in that pool. With this ^^^^^ design you have steps all over the place. Yeah the "easy up" steps are at each end BUT most people will be able to get onto the bench and sit their bottom on the coping and get out that way without any problem. For those that can't or don't want to....walk to the "easy up" steps.

This design is pleasing to the eye, covers all of the bases (volley ball, laps, lots of seating) and I like it so that is that! LOL

Kim:kim:
 
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