Just getting started and need help.

[laurandavid09]

Retest of CH and pH

pH-6.8
FC-2.5
CC-0
TA-210(pink color) or 220 (Red)
CH-300
CYA-30

It looks like maybe I should add quiet a bit of borax to briing up pH to 7.6 and bring down TA, and a small amount of bleach to bring up FC to 3. All this info is per the pool calculator.

I also have 3 inch chlorine tablets if this will help any.

I assume I can get borax at the grocery store correct?

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Retest of CH and pH

pH-6.8
FC-2.5
CC-0
TA-210(pink color) or 220 (Red)
CH-300
CYA-30

It looks like maybe I should add quiet a bit of borax to briing up pH to 7.6 and bring down TA, and a small amount of bleach to bring up FC to 3. All this info is per the pool calculator.

I also have 3 inch chlorine tablets if this will help any.

I assume I can get borax at the grocery store correct?

Correct. Borax raises PH and can be purchased in the laundry aisle.

There is an article in Pool School that describes the Lowering TA process. With your TA that high (if it's correct) you can simply aerate to raise your PH.

Your signature is completely gone now. I can't recall what kind of pool you have. Aeration can be acheived slowly by pointing the eyeball returns up. If you search the forum for aerators you can see many homemade versions folk have come up with. If you plan to lower the TA using the instructions in the article you will want an aerator.

All high TA means though is it may cause the PH to drift up. It's not critical to lower it right now unless the constant rise in ph causes problems for you.

Now, regarding the TA test - static electricity can build up and cause the dropper bottle for the TA test to deliver inconsistently sized drops. It helps to wipe the tip of the bottle in between drops with a damp cloth, to get consistent drops. Try the test again and see if it changes your result.

The CH test - what did you do differently to yield such different results?

You do not need to use tablets right now.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

I just reviewed the thread - if your pool is still green or dull or cloudy, you have not completed the shock process. Your FC should be at shock level - now that you know your CYA is 30 you can refer to the CYA chart for your correct chlorine levels.

You can confirm if your FC is holding by doing an overnight FC loss test - instructions in Pool School. If the FC is not holding, you need to continue to shock using the directions in the pool school article on How to Shock your pool.

Do not try to adjust the PH when the FC is above 10 - it will read false-high.

 

[laurandavid09]

Retest of CH and pH

pH-6.8
FC-2.5
CC-0
TA-210(pink color) or 220 (Red)
CH-300
CYA-30

It looks like maybe I should add quiet a bit of borax to briing up pH to 7.6 and bring down TA, and a small amount of bleach to bring up FC to 3. All this info is per the pool calculator.

I also have 3 inch chlorine tablets if this will help any.

I assume I can get borax at the grocery store correct?

Correct. Borax raises PH and can be purchased in the laundry aisle.

There is an article in Pool School that describes the Lowering TA process. With your TA that high (if it's correct) you can simply aerate to raise your PH.

Your signature is completely gone now. I can't recall what kind of pool you have. Aeration can be acheived slowly by pointing the eyeball returns up. If you search the forum for aerators you can see many homemade versions folk have come up with. If you plan to lower the TA using the instructions in the article you will want an aerator.

All high TA means though is it may cause the PH to drift up. It's not critical to lower it right now unless the constant rise in ph causes problems for you.

Now, regarding the TA test - static electricity can build up and cause the dropper bottle for the TA test to deliver inconsistently sized drops. It helps to wipe the tip of the bottle in between drops with a damp cloth, to get consistent drops. Try the test again and see if it changes your result.

The CH test - what did you do differently to yield such different results?

You do not need to use tablets right now.

The CH test I did differently by following the directions. I was not mixing it at all just dropping it. So that was the big difference.

 

[laurandavid09]

Does it matter if I add the borax during the day or night?

Also do I need the pump running when I do it?

Thanks.

 

[duraleigh]

Also do I need the pump running when I do it?

Always have the pump running when you add chemistry. Adding borax slowly through the skimmer is my choice. Day or night doesn't matter.

 

[laurandavid09]

Also do I need the pump running when I do it?

Always have the pump running when you add chemistry. Adding borax slowly through the skimmer is my choice. Day or night doesn't matter.

Why do you add it in the skimmer and not the pool itself?

Also do I need to mix it with water first, or can I add it slowly out of the box? I am going to be adding quiet a bit as well, so should I take out the skimmer basket or add it with the skimmer basket in so it breaks it up?

Thanks.

 

[duraleigh]

Please redo your sig so it shows the size of your pool, etc. No one can remember your pool size and it's frequently pertinent to the questions you ask.

Borax directly into the pool can settle on the bottom and cause problems with your liner/pool surface.

Pump running, pout it slowly into the skimmer and let the flow of the water dilute and dissolve it....skimmer basket is irrelevant although it may catch a big clump if yours is clumpy.

How much are you planning to add?

 

[laurandavid09]

Please redo your sig so it shows the size of your pool, etc. No one can remember your pool size and it's frequently pertinent to the questions you ask.

Borax directly into the pool can settle on the bottom and cause problems with your liner/pool surface.

Pump running, pout it slowly into the skimmer and let the flow of the water dilute and dissolve it....skimmer basket is irrelevant although it may catch a big clump if yours is clumpy.

How much are you planning to add?

447 oz per the pool calculator. Not sure if that is a lot or not.

 

[polyvue]

447 oz per the pool calculator. Not sure if that is a lot or not.

28 lbs.... So you're trying to effect an increase of 20 ppm borates?

This is far more than you would use to increase pH from 6.8 to the mid 7s, so presume you're adding the borax for algae prophylaxis. Please be aware that your TA will increase, too, by about 40-45 ppm; and you'll have to downward adjust the pH considerably.

If that's what you want to do, the borax should be added in parcels, a few pounds at a time so it clears the filter and circulates back into the pool. Have a gallon or two of 31.45% Muriatic Acid (MA) on hand; test the pH 30 minutes after you've added about 1/2 the borax and then adjust the pH with MA. Run the pump/filter for a few hours, then repeat this process.


EDIT

Having re-read the above thread, I'm not at all sure this is something you want to do. I think you'll need about 7 lbs (112 oz.) of 20 Mule Team Borax to increase your pH from 6.8 to about 7.5. That will increase borates by 5 ppm and TA by 12 ppm. If I'm wrong about your intention and you do plan to increase borates to 20 ppm, here's a link that details this process step by step: So You Want to Add Borates To Your Pool

Since your TA is high, my recommendation would be to raise pH is through aeration. The only downside to this process is that it takes time and electricity (to run the pump(s), fountains, etc.)

END EDIT

 

[laurandavid09]

Ok did some more testing and seem to have issues

pH-8.2 (dark pink)
FC-.5 (Once I added one drop it goes clear but still fuzzy, after about 6 drops turns very clear.) Seem to have an issue with FC drop by more than one.
CC-0
TA-180(pink) 190(red)
CH-300-Did not re test
CYA-30-Did not re test

I added 6 boxes of borax last night. and it has been roughly 8 hrs when I tested again. Not sure if water temp has anything to do with it.

 

[laurandavid09]

447 oz per the pool calculator. Not sure if that is a lot or not.

28 lbs.... So you're trying to effect an increase of 20 ppm borates?

This is far more than you would use to increase pH from 6.8 to the mid 7s, so presume you're adding the borax for algae prophylaxis. Please be aware that your TA will increase, too, by about 40-45 ppm; and you'll have to downward adjust the pH considerably.

If that's what you want to do, the borax should be added in parcels, a few pounds at a time so it clears the filter and circulates back into the pool. Have a gallon or two of 31.45% Muriatic Acid (MA) on hand; test the pH 30 minutes after you've added about 1/2 the borax and then adjust the pH with MA. Run the pump/filter for a few hours, then repeat this process.


EDIT

Having re-read the above thread, I'm not at all sure this is something you want to do. I think you'll need about 7 lbs (112 oz.) of 20 Mule Team Borax to increase your pH from 6.8 to about 7.5. That will increase borates by 5 ppm and TA by 12 ppm. If I'm wrong about your intention and you do plan to increase borates to 20 ppm, here's a link that details this process step by step: So You Want to Add Borates To Your Pool

Since your TA is high, my recommendation would be to raise pH is through aeration. The only downside to this process is that it takes time and electricity (to run the pump(s), fountains, etc.)

END EDIT

So you are saying the pool calculator was wrong?

 

[laurandavid09]

Ok did some more testing and seem to have issues

pH-8.2 (dark pink)
FC-.5 (Once I added one drop it goes clear but still fuzzy, after about 6 drops turns very clear.) Seem to have an issue with FC drop by more than one.
CC-0
TA-180(pink) 190(red)
CH-300-Did not re test
CYA-30-Did not re test

I added 6 boxes of borax last night. and it has been roughly 8 hrs when I tested again. Not sure if water temp has anything to do with it.

Hopefully I did not mess something up badly.

 

[laurandavid09]

Took a water sample to Warehouse Pool Supply and they tested it for me. Even have a preintout of the results I will post later on. Everything was in range except for a few things, which was pH and there is a small hint of copper in it. So it is getting there slowly but surely.

 

[polyvue]

Took a water sample to Warehouse Pool Supply and they tested it for me. Even have a preintout of the results I will post later on. Everything was in range except for a few things, which was pH and there is a small hint of copper in it. So it is getting there slowly but surely.

Sure. It might be helpful at this point to be able to compare test results with the store's version. You don't have to necessarily follow it, but more knowledge is good. Have a feeling that after all that borax you no longer have a low pH problem... Please do post your test results.

 

[laurandavid09]

Here are all the test results

FC-0.00 (Range 1-3 ppm)

TC-0.00 (Range 1-3 ppm)

CC-0.00 (Range 0.0-0.2 ppm)

pH-8.2 (Range 7.4-7.6)

Hardness-200 ppm (Range 200-400 ppm)

Alkalinity-165 ppm (80-120 ppm)

Cyanuric Acid-90 ppm (30-100 ppm)

Copper 1.00 ppm (Range 0.0-0.0 ppm)

Iron-0.00 ppm (Range 0.0-0.0 ppm)

Total Dissolved Solids-800 ppm (Range 0-2000 ppm)

Phospahte Level0100 ppb (Range 0-300 ppb)

 

[polyvue]

Here are all the test results

FC-0.00 (Range 1-3 ppm)
TC-0.00 (Range 1-3 ppm)
CC-0.00 (Range 0.0-0.2 ppm)
pH-8.2 (Range 7.4-7.6)
Hardness-200 ppm (Range 200-400 ppm)
Alkalinity-165 ppm (80-120 ppm)
Cyanuric Acid-90 ppm (30-100 ppm)
Copper 1.00 ppm (Range 0.0-0.0 ppm)
Iron-0.00 ppm (Range 0.0-0.0 ppm)
Total Dissolved Solids-800 ppm (Range 0-2000 ppm)
Phospahte Level0100 ppb (Range 0-300 ppb)

These results are not at all unexpected in light of the previous use of Trichlor/Dichlor pucks, addition of algaecides and borax, and your earlier report of algae/cloudy water.

I'll give you my opinion on what I think the best treatment is, but urge you to await confirmation from one or more other members before taking action. pH, CYA and copper levels are too high. Borates unknown. I think you'd have an easier time going forward if you would drain one-half of your pool's water and then refill. Then recirculate, test everything yourself once again, take a sample of the pool water back to Warehouse Pool Supply and get another print-out; finally, post both your test results and those of the pool store.

Again, this is my take on your next best step. Please wait for confirmation.

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

Please put the type of pool surface (plaster/vinyl) in your signature.

Okay.... I'm really don't want to offend you, I really want to help but it seems like you are maybe getting overwhelmed by all the information (which is easy to do). You need to take a deep breath and really begin to understand the information so that you don't rush in and make mistakes, adding unneccessary chems to your pool. If you are uncertain please wait for confirmation before adding something. The pace on the forum in the off season is slower but we can usually get you an answer within 24 hours. There is no reason to rush to treat the pool, it can wait for an answer.

You should not have added the borax. Myself and Polyvue both advised you to "Aerate" instead. Actually there are a few things that you should not have added (algaecide and powdered shock) but what's done is done.

When you have a Borate level, like the recommendation of 50ppm in the Pool School article - it makes it harder then to lower TA in the future. Since your TA is on the high end right now, adding borates right now is not the preferred method for raising your PH. With high TA, one simply needs to aerate and the PH will rise on it's own.

On one post you said your PH was 7.2 and then the next day 6.8. Did you add anything in between like more acid to cause it to go lower? Do you have tablets in the floater? Tablets are acidic and they lower the PH/TA.

Now your PH is again too high, so you need to use muratic acid to lower it.

First, use muratic Acid to get the PH down to 7.4 ish and please measure carefully.

Make sure when you are using the Pool Calculator that you enter all the values in the various boxes correctly. Because if you only do PH - and your TA box doesn't have the correct amount- you may get the wrong amount of chemical listed to adjust PH. Does that make sense?

The "effects of adding chemicals" section at the bottom tells you how much the various levels are affected but it doesn't take into account the other current values in that calculation. I don't know how to explain that in simpler terms. The upper section does take this into account, so use the upper section completely filled out when determining how to treat the pool.

Make sure when you are doing the TA test you wipe the tip of the dropper bottle as I advised above.

On an earlier post - you mentioned adding "lbs of shock" - what is the ingredient in that shock, and are you now using liquid chlorine?

It is not clear if your water is clear yet or not, but I get the distinct impression that you have not completed the shock process. Obviously we need to focus on one thing at a time... So:

1. first tackle the PH. When it is 7.4, then
2. you can complete your shock process.

These two steps should be your focus for treating the pool.

I would not bother with the Pool Store. You have the best kit available, and you just need the experience of testing to have confidence in your results. Often pool store testing is unreliable and just plain innacurate. Do you know what they are testing with? strips, drop based kit?

Assuming you did the CYA test correctly, why would they end up with such different results? Have you tested the CYA since the tablets were added to the floater?

Are you confident you did the CYA est correctly? Since there was such a big error on the CH test, perhaps you should repeat it, unless you have come up with the same results more than once....

If you are confident in your CYA testing method and have yielded the same result more than once, I would trust your own results over the pool stores.

What was the active ingredient in the black algaecide treatment? Does that account for the high copper reading? OR have you been using something that is copper based, like liquid algaecides? Very slowly over time with water replacement, the copper level will come down, assuming you don't add anymore copper based products. You do not want it higher, you risk staining on the pool and on blond or light colored hair.

I hope this helps, I know what it's like to be overwhelmed with all of this information, but believe me we are here to help you... just take a deep breath and keep reading the information and eventually it will begin to sink in.

 

[laurandavid09]

Please put the type of pool surface (plaster/vinyl) in your signature.

Okay.... I'm really don't want to offend you, I really want to help but it seems like you are maybe getting overwhelmed by all the information (which is easy to do). You need to take a deep breath and really begin to understand the information so that you don't rush in and make mistakes, adding unneccessary chems to your pool. If you are uncertain please wait for confirmation before adding something. The pace on the forum in the off season is slower but we can usually get you an answer within 24 hours. There is no reason to rush to treat the pool, it can wait for an answer.

You should not have added the borax. Myself and Polyvue both advised you to "Aerate" instead. Actually there are a few things that you should not have added (algaecide and powdered shock) but what's done is done.

When you have a Borate level, like the recommendation of 50ppm in the Pool School article - it makes it harder then to lower TA in the future. Since your TA is on the high end right now, adding borates right now is not the preferred method for raising your PH. With high TA, one simply needs to aerate and the PH will rise on it's own.

On one post you said your PH was 7.2 and then the next day 6.8. Did you add anything in between like more acid to cause it to go lower? Do you have tablets in the floater? Tablets are acidic and they lower the PH/TA.

Now your PH is again too high, so you need to use muratic acid to lower it.

First, use muratic Acid to get the PH down to 7.4 ish and please measure carefully.

Make sure when you are using the Pool Calculator that you enter all the values in the various boxes correctly. Because if you only do PH - and your TA box doesn't have the correct amount- you may get the wrong amount of chemical listed to adjust PH. Does that make sense?

The "effects of adding chemicals" section at the bottom tells you how much the various levels are affected but it doesn't take into account the other current values in that calculation. I don't know how to explain that in simpler terms. The upper section does take this into account, so use the upper section completely filled out when determining how to treat the pool.

Make sure when you are doing the TA test you wipe the tip of the dropper bottle as I advised above.

On an earlier post - you mentioned adding "lbs of shock" - what is the ingredient in that shock, and are you now using liquid chlorine?

It is not clear if your water is clear yet or not, but I get the distinct impression that you have not completed the shock process. Obviously we need to focus on one thing at a time... So:

1. first tackle the PH. When it is 7.4, then
2. you can complete your shock process.

These two steps should be your focus for treating the pool.

I would not bother with the Pool Store. You have the best kit available, and you just need the experience of testing to have confidence in your results. Often pool store testing is unreliable and just plain innacurate. Do you know what they are testing with? strips, drop based kit?

Assuming you did the CYA test correctly, why would they end up with such different results? Have you tested the CYA since the tablets were added to the floater?

Are you confident you did the CYA est correctly? Since there was such a big error on the CH test, perhaps you should repeat it, unless you have come up with the same results more than once....

If you are confident in your CYA testing method and have yielded the same result more than once, I would trust your own results over the pool stores.

What was the active ingredient in the black algaecide treatment? Does that account for the high copper reading? OR have you been using something that is copper based, like liquid algaecides? Very slowly over time with water replacement, the copper level will come down, assuming you don't add anymore copper based products. You do not want it higher, you risk staining on the pool and on blond or light colored hair.

I hope this helps, I know what it's like to be overwhelmed with all of this information, but believe me we are here to help you... just take a deep breath and keep reading the information and eventually it will begin to sink in.

What exactly is aerate. From what I read, aerate is just putting water back into the pool, via the return vents. If I am wrong please correct me.

When they tested it, they used a dye drop in all the stuff they tested. I was able to sit there and watch them test it.

 

[geekgranny]

Borax directly into the pool can settle on the bottom and cause problems with your liner/pool surface.

Pump running, pour it slowly into the skimmer and let the flow of the water dilute and dissolve it....skimmer basket is irrelevant although it may catch a big clump if yours is clumpy.

I'm going to start a thread later on adding things to the skimmer when using cellulose in a DE filter. Mind you, I don't disagree about adding most things to skimmer and I think my problem arose because I added the borax too fast.

I just recently did an AA treatment on my pool in addition to letting out lots of water because of lots of rain, so I had to add Borax to bring up the pH. I added it to the skimmer way too fast (had just done a backwash prior to adding borax). Cellulose and borax, too fast, caused instant psi rise beyond my limit of no more than 10 psi between backwashings. It took me a lot of backwashing to get the clogging undone.

I don't know how other filters or filter media would react to adding borax too fast. Cellulose is supposed to capture even better than DE. In this case it surely did its job well.

So when adding anything to the skimmer be sure to do it slowly, slowly, slowly.

gg=alice