And being next to the lake, water table is likely high.
# Sent from mobile device. Beware of brevity and spelling errors!
# Sent from mobile device. Beware of brevity and spelling errors!
Just bought house with pool---probably hasn't been opened in 3 years...
- Thread starter Hulligan
- Start date
I kept my FC levels higher than what my target was at all times, never dropping to target or less. You have some dips on your paper that go below your target, might be an issue. If you can add and test more frequently that can help too. I tested every hour on the 1st few days and backwash a lot. I work from home, so that made it easier during the week and started on a weekend I knew I could be on top of it. Just an example. Maybe try adding and testing more if you can and keep your numbers higher.
+1 to what Mickey said. The more frequently you can check and stay on top of it the faster it can go. It will still work if you can't do it as often but it will take longer. Everyone can only do the best their schedule will allow so keep doing the best you can and it will come around! 
I stayed slightly above my FC level to during my slam as Mickey did. I did not want to fall below at all once I reached it.
Good morning, Hulligan. Keep up the good work.
I have two thoughts that may or may not be useful, so take what you will from it.
The first is with the bio load you had in there, you might consider using the "mustard shock" level shown in Pool Calculator and not let it drop below that, meaning dose a few ppms higher. I didn't realize it at the time, but that's effectively what I'd done around the "brown" stage of things before I was fully organized and on TFP.
The second observation based on hindsight and being on well myself is I think when you're at "brown" from black for a few days the color can be related to the oxidization of any iron in the well-water.
Somewhere in my conversion my half-fired pool tech had added a dose of metal sequestrant (but it was still brown) so I'm not entirely certain whether the sand filter just filtered out the oxidized iron (ergo going blue) or whether the metal sequestrant helped promote a faster color change.
If your water looks "more clear" but still tinted brown in another few days, and your FC seems to be holding for longer without any color change, it might be worth adding 2 bottles of Metal Magic (a start up dose...though to lift stains etc., I actually use 5) to see if that helps the brown clear. (Jacks Magic pink is another TFP recommended metal sequestrant. My best luck has been with Metal Magic to date.)
Iron testing is a little hit and miss, but do you know from your well test if a) you have iron and b) if its over .5 ppm? Eg. Water softer company or well inspector might have that info. There are home kits too.
Gotta run to an early meeting but I'll try to check back tonight to see if you have questions.
I have two thoughts that may or may not be useful, so take what you will from it.
The first is with the bio load you had in there, you might consider using the "mustard shock" level shown in Pool Calculator and not let it drop below that, meaning dose a few ppms higher. I didn't realize it at the time, but that's effectively what I'd done around the "brown" stage of things before I was fully organized and on TFP.
The second observation based on hindsight and being on well myself is I think when you're at "brown" from black for a few days the color can be related to the oxidization of any iron in the well-water.
Somewhere in my conversion my half-fired pool tech had added a dose of metal sequestrant (but it was still brown) so I'm not entirely certain whether the sand filter just filtered out the oxidized iron (ergo going blue) or whether the metal sequestrant helped promote a faster color change.
If your water looks "more clear" but still tinted brown in another few days, and your FC seems to be holding for longer without any color change, it might be worth adding 2 bottles of Metal Magic (a start up dose...though to lift stains etc., I actually use 5) to see if that helps the brown clear. (Jacks Magic pink is another TFP recommended metal sequestrant. My best luck has been with Metal Magic to date.)
Iron testing is a little hit and miss, but do you know from your well test if a) you have iron and b) if its over .5 ppm? Eg. Water softer company or well inspector might have that info. There are home kits too.
Gotta run to an early meeting but I'll try to check back tonight to see if you have questions.
I'm pretty new to the swimming pool thing, but I've been in the waste water industry for a decade now. I'm wondering if it is just not more feasible to rent a duplex filter from Baker, Rain for Rent, Adler, etc and a trash pump and double down on the filtration.
SLAM Day 5
Still the same. Going by all your helpful comments, I am going to up my goal FC to 18-20, and try my hardest to not let it drop below 18! THANKS!
The mustard level shock chart says I should be over 18, but just for 24 hours. Should I go back to the 16-18 FC Goal, or should I keep the 18-20 for a while?
As for iron in the well water....not sure. Haven't had it tested yet. Here in the South, I wouldn't be surprised...we have so much iron in the dirt. I need to get the water tested. We have copper pipes under the house and will get them replaced sometime in the next year, and that is contributing to the nasty taste of the tap water, but not sure what the metal content is.
Swampwoman, I just checked on the Metal Magic...about $15 a bottle. Other than testing the water supply, are there any tests to determine if I need to get rid of metals in the water? Of, should I just add some Metal Magic and see
what happens?
Still the same. Going by all your helpful comments, I am going to up my goal FC to 18-20, and try my hardest to not let it drop below 18! THANKS!
The mustard level shock chart says I should be over 18, but just for 24 hours. Should I go back to the 16-18 FC Goal, or should I keep the 18-20 for a while?
As for iron in the well water....not sure. Haven't had it tested yet. Here in the South, I wouldn't be surprised...we have so much iron in the dirt. I need to get the water tested. We have copper pipes under the house and will get them replaced sometime in the next year, and that is contributing to the nasty taste of the tap water, but not sure what the metal content is.
Swampwoman, I just checked on the Metal Magic...about $15 a bottle. Other than testing the water supply, are there any tests to determine if I need to get rid of metals in the water? Of, should I just add some Metal Magic and see
what happens?
Hi Hulligan.
I use this test kit but find it a bit hit and miss as are most home/consumer metal testers ( but commercial ones are way more expensive) http://www.amazon.com/LaMotte-29946...=1431010615&sr=1-6&keywords=Lamotte+iron+test
My hunch is that it's quite lie.y you may have *some* iron that's oxidizing...but normally you'd drop the chlorine when using metal magic and in this case you absolutely cannot drop the chlorine so wat I'm wondering is where high FC interferes with the performance of phosphonic acid.
I don't want you to waste money or time so I'll see if I can get more info for you.
The other consideration is that a sand filter WILL to some extent clear quite a bit of iron (if its been oxidized, which is what happens during a slam) so if the water clears on its own from constant filtering in a few days you'd be better off to wait and then treat only if you have stains or a positive metal test.
More on my next break
I use this test kit but find it a bit hit and miss as are most home/consumer metal testers ( but commercial ones are way more expensive) http://www.amazon.com/LaMotte-29946...=1431010615&sr=1-6&keywords=Lamotte+iron+test
My hunch is that it's quite lie.y you may have *some* iron that's oxidizing...but normally you'd drop the chlorine when using metal magic and in this case you absolutely cannot drop the chlorine so wat I'm wondering is where high FC interferes with the performance of phosphonic acid.
I don't want you to waste money or time so I'll see if I can get more info for you.
The other consideration is that a sand filter WILL to some extent clear quite a bit of iron (if its been oxidized, which is what happens during a slam) so if the water clears on its own from constant filtering in a few days you'd be better off to wait and then treat only if you have stains or a positive metal test.
More on my next break
When it comes to spending money, I am fine with the wait-n-see method! Thanks swamp woman!
Hi again. I just called the manufacturer, since I want to know that I'm giving decent advice and I was curious.
Kevin at ProTeam (Haviland -- they're in my town, which makes it funny that I didn't discover their product until last year) says he's concerned that using the Metal Magic at your current high shock/slam levels will reduce or nullify the product's efficacy (via the chlorine), so he recommends you wait until after your slam and once you've determined the condition of your well water. (Many folks with well water, however, are inclined to use a start up dose as a preventative measure, with maintenance doses throughout the season.)
SO, wait and see is your best bet on the brownish color. In my experience, the sand filter, if working correctly, WILL get it eventually
The recommended best-efficacy parameters for Metal Magic are: FC 1-3 ppm or if you have a SWG to turn off same, with PH OVER 7.5 (as MM will lower same a bit). They recommend to NOT shock up to a week after a treatment.
Kevin also says he's happy to take any calls from homeowners -- just call the proteam customer support line if needed when the time comes
Cheers!
Kevin at ProTeam (Haviland -- they're in my town, which makes it funny that I didn't discover their product until last year) says he's concerned that using the Metal Magic at your current high shock/slam levels will reduce or nullify the product's efficacy (via the chlorine), so he recommends you wait until after your slam and once you've determined the condition of your well water. (Many folks with well water, however, are inclined to use a start up dose as a preventative measure, with maintenance doses throughout the season.)
SO, wait and see is your best bet on the brownish color. In my experience, the sand filter, if working correctly, WILL get it eventually
The recommended best-efficacy parameters for Metal Magic are: FC 1-3 ppm or if you have a SWG to turn off same, with PH OVER 7.5 (as MM will lower same a bit). They recommend to NOT shock up to a week after a treatment.
Kevin also says he's happy to take any calls from homeowners -- just call the proteam customer support line if needed when the time comes
Cheers!
Hi again, Hulligan.
One more "maybe" future tip before I forget : NOTE: I cannot verify this product works, as when I had tried it, my water was already sequestered and not discolored ... was just trying to see if it reduced overall iron level. I've "heard" (from contacting the seller who bought out the original co.) that it works on tea-colored water to remove the oxidized particles -- don't have to touch chlorine levels to use.
IF you find your color become clear but still tea or turquoise (eg. yellow water with blue liner...) after a few more days of filtering AND you want to experiment, here's the link: http://askthepoolguy.com/product/ferri-tabs-limited-time-offer/?mc_cid=0704225033&mc_eid=4c7f275e81
One more "maybe" future tip before I forget : NOTE: I cannot verify this product works, as when I had tried it, my water was already sequestered and not discolored ... was just trying to see if it reduced overall iron level. I've "heard" (from contacting the seller who bought out the original co.) that it works on tea-colored water to remove the oxidized particles -- don't have to touch chlorine levels to use.
IF you find your color become clear but still tea or turquoise (eg. yellow water with blue liner...) after a few more days of filtering AND you want to experiment, here's the link: http://askthepoolguy.com/product/ferri-tabs-limited-time-offer/?mc_cid=0704225033&mc_eid=4c7f275e81
Before we found this awesome site, we purchased some chemicals from the local pool store. Since they were so freaking expensive, I'd hate for them to go to waste. Is there any use for any of them? Would the flouc help at all?
If not, I'm sure I can give them to someone who has a pool.
Could you take them back and get your money back?
If not I would try to sale them on C-list.
Kim
If not I would try to sale them on C-list.
Kim
Good morning.
The turbo shock is chlorine mixed with calcium so it does not raise your cya, but instead it will raise your calcium. For every 10 ppm of FC, you'll get 7 ppm of calcium.
You have a vinyl pool, so LOW calcium doesn't matter like it does on other surfaces, but high calcium can cause scaling on any type of surface. Youre also on well water, so you might have naturally high calcium with hard water.
If you test your calcium with your TFP kit and know its low enough, there's no real harm in using cal hypo so long as you're calculating/keeping track of what you add and stay within TFP guidelines. (this particular product des not seem to contain copper -- if it did, you wouldn't want to use it...the problem with these "do it all" products is knowing whether there's cya or copper in it...have to read labels carefully.)
So that one is your call -- if your water is already calcium-saturated, and you use the cal-hypo, you would see a bit of clouding...but this filters out, and sometimes takes some oxidized iron with it (if you happen to have oxidized iron in your water.)
Generally, floc is not recommended at TFP (I still have two bottles sitting around unused from my conversion. One of them I literally found intact at the bottom of the swamp when it cleared
Part of the reason is that it is generally unnecessary when chlorine does the job and the KISS rule applies here Another reason its not generally recommended is because to use it, you turn off the filter overnight to let everything settle, then vacuum to waste in am. Most people in swampy conditions at slam level shouldn't turn off the filter...and many can't effectively vacuum to waste.
With that said, my about-to-be-fired pool tech HAD tried to floc the swamp before I found TFP. Precisely nothing happened (except he broke the skimmer plate trying to vacuum blind). What I can't say for sure as weather the flock later had any supportive action on consolidating the particles for filtering. Floc is based on sound water plant principals for clumping together particulate matter.
So in your shoes, I'd likely try to take the clarifier and floc back, or hang onto the floc for a later experiment in clearing the final bits if you're feeling adventurous -- but I suspect it would be useless in current conditions and might distract from the plan at hand The floc product isn't the problem itself...its the more haphazard "shock and floc" mindset of pool techs that kind of disempowers the pool consumer and helps keep em in the dark....is a crutch that contraindicates knowing precisely how to manage your pool effectively (and economically...again, the KISS principal, and really understanding all unforeseen consequences of what goes into your water.)
TFP tries to stick to known, reliable-100% strategies that keep the pool owner informed and in control. That's what ultimately makes pools trouble free
But that doesn't mean you necessarily have to eschew all commercial products (though you generally just won't need them
For me, that might mean I go to a pool store and buy a product I like because its more convenient to me, even though its more expensive -- eg I buy 12% chlorine at the pool store because they refill my empties and I hate consuming/wasting plastic...that's a personal enviro trade-off Or borates...there's a commercial boric acid product I like for making my water feel soft and i often buy it this way because its easier than hauling boxes of team mule borax and muriatic acid to create the same effect).
I'm no less "TFP" for that preference, provided I know exactly what's in the commercial product, how it will behave in my water, and how it will impact or not impact other parameters.
The turbo shock is chlorine mixed with calcium so it does not raise your cya, but instead it will raise your calcium. For every 10 ppm of FC, you'll get 7 ppm of calcium.
You have a vinyl pool, so LOW calcium doesn't matter like it does on other surfaces, but high calcium can cause scaling on any type of surface. Youre also on well water, so you might have naturally high calcium with hard water.
If you test your calcium with your TFP kit and know its low enough, there's no real harm in using cal hypo so long as you're calculating/keeping track of what you add and stay within TFP guidelines. (this particular product des not seem to contain copper -- if it did, you wouldn't want to use it...the problem with these "do it all" products is knowing whether there's cya or copper in it...have to read labels carefully.)
So that one is your call -- if your water is already calcium-saturated, and you use the cal-hypo, you would see a bit of clouding...but this filters out, and sometimes takes some oxidized iron with it (if you happen to have oxidized iron in your water.)
Generally, floc is not recommended at TFP (I still have two bottles sitting around unused from my conversion. One of them I literally found intact at the bottom of the swamp when it cleared
Part of the reason is that it is generally unnecessary when chlorine does the job and the KISS rule applies here
Another reason its not generally recommended is because to use it, you turn off the filter overnight to let everything settle, then vacuum to waste in am. Most people in swampy conditions at slam level shouldn't turn off the filter...and many can't effectively vacuum to waste.With that said, my about-to-be-fired pool tech HAD tried to floc the swamp before I found TFP. Precisely nothing happened (except he broke the skimmer plate trying to vacuum blind). What I can't say for sure as weather the flock later had any supportive action on consolidating the particles for filtering. Floc is based on sound water plant principals for clumping together particulate matter.
So in your shoes, I'd likely try to take the clarifier and floc back, or hang onto the floc for a later experiment in clearing the final bits if you're feeling adventurous -- but I suspect it would be useless in current conditions and might distract from the plan at hand
The floc product isn't the problem itself...its the more haphazard "shock and floc" mindset of pool techs that kind of disempowers the pool consumer and helps keep em in the dark....is a crutch that contraindicates knowing precisely how to manage your pool effectively (and economically...again, the KISS principal, and really understanding all unforeseen consequences of what goes into your water.)TFP tries to stick to known, reliable-100% strategies that keep the pool owner informed and in control. That's what ultimately makes pools trouble free
But that doesn't mean you necessarily have to eschew all commercial products (though you generally just won't need them
For me, that might mean I go to a pool store and buy a product I like because its more convenient to me, even though its more expensive -- eg I buy 12% chlorine at the pool store because they refill my empties and I hate consuming/wasting plastic...that's a personal enviro trade-off
Or borates...there's a commercial boric acid product I like for making my water feel soft and i often buy it this way because its easier than hauling boxes of team mule borax and muriatic acid to create the same effect). I'm no less "TFP" for that preference, provided I know exactly what's in the commercial product, how it will behave in my water, and how it will impact or not impact other parameters.
I don't have the receipt for the chemicals, so I think I will just try craigslist. Thanks! I just hate wasting stuff, especially my $$$. ;-)
SLAM DAY 6
Maybe a little clearer, even if it's still swampy.
Checking and testing 4-5 times a day, sweeping and scrubbing a little each time. Backwashing 3-4 times a day. Kids say it now looks a little less brown than the lake and want to go in. No.
Maybe a little clearer, even if it's still swampy.
Checking and testing 4-5 times a day, sweeping and scrubbing a little each time. Backwashing 3-4 times a day. Kids say it now looks a little less brown than the lake and want to go in. No.
Good call. They could go in even during SLAM if the FC is at or below shock level, but you NEED to be able to see the bottom clearly before venturing in for safety.
KEEP ON SLAMING!
daleyfolk
LifeTime Supporter
LOL...i didnt tell them that. It would give them the idea of "accidentally" falling in. ;-)