Jandy Stealth Pump Unable To Draw Random Mornings

[TexasEllis]

Not sure the title of the thread makes complete sense ......so....

I have a Jandy Stealth pump that seems to lose vacuum (for a lack of a better word) random mornings so it doesn't draw in the water from the pool and just runs. So I end up checking it each morning when I am home and the pump only has water in the bottom and isn't drawing water.

I have to close the 3 valves while it's running, turn it off, pop the lid, fill it from the hose, close the lid, start it back up then open the main valve followed by the others nursing it to a full flow. Then it runs fine for the rest of the day. Other days it runs from the start just fine. I noticed tonight about 2 hours after the pool stopped running for the day the pump was empty again but when I started it up, it drew a little water and within 30 seconds had full flow.

I have changed the O-ring so I am not sure that's the problem. Could it be the lid? Maybe it warped one time from the heat of running without water flowing? Why else would it be losing vacuum/suction? (again, lack of the proper terminology)
Or any other suggestions on what I should be checking?

Thank you all, this place is simply the best for solving problems. Everyone is so generous. Wish I could give back as much as I have learned from y'all.

 

[HermanTX]

Is this a new issue? Meaning it has worked fine in the past and now not priming as you described?
Is your pump above your pool water level?
Have you checked that the impeller is clear - no debris stuck in it?
Are your suction lines clear - no debris or other items in the skimmer or main drain line?
Have you checked that the drain plugs are tight? Sometimes it is best to back out, lube them and then tighten. Do not overtighten. There are usually 2 drain plugs on a pump - 1 under the pump basket and 1 under the impeller assembly.
Also check upstream of the pump - the diverted valve, a check valve.

 

[TexasEllis]

THANK YOU!

The effort and detail is beyond expectations. I really appreciate it. I like to fix what I can before paying someone else.

I will try to work through your list and report back later today!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ellis,

When you shut off the pump, the water in the basket should NOT drain back into your pool. It should hold water like a straw does when you put your thumb over the end and pull it out of a glass of water. When you take your thumb off, all the water drains out... A air leak on the pressure side is the same as removing your thumb...

Besides what Herman says above, you should also look at your filter. If the air relief valve leaks, when you shut off the pump, it will let air into the system and this will cause the water in the filter and the pump to drain back into the pool. The same thing can happen if the O-Ring on the filter leaks, but this generally also shows up as a small water leak when under pressure.

This would not be the main reason your pump can't suck a vacuum, but it should solve the first thing in the morning issue.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TexasEllis]

Alright! I found the 2 plugs, one wasn't perfectly tight but they were not leaking. Tightened em up.

When I turned the pool off, I heard gurgling in the system and within a minute the water in the basket started to drop. So I refilled everything by running it and then closed the 3 input check valves and stopped it. Absolutely no draining down of the water and complete silence.

That indicates it's coming from one of those upstream/input water lines most likely, right? (Please say yes, those are easy to remove and check the rubber rings.....)

I am getting there!

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ellis,

Show us a couple of pics of your equipment pads, so we have a clue what your plumbing looks like.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TexasEllis]

Jim, thanks for your help.

I had my pool guy (who does the things I can't/don't want to endeavor) fix the collar that attaches the intake line to the pump a while back because the original (15 years old) broke. I played with the 3 intake valves after running the pump full, closing them and shutting the pool off. As I said, when all 3 closed, the system didn't leak. But as soon as I open any of the 3, it starts bubbling and the water starts dropping.

Makes me think it's in that collar connection. Thoughts? Pics coming in 2 minutes if you want to wait to respond and THANK YOU AGAIN!

I don't have the knowledge y'all do so please know in other areas of my life where I do have knowledge, I try to follow both your's and Herman's example.

Texans help Texans. And others!

 

[HermanTX]

Jim, thanks for your help.

I had my pool guy (who does the things I can't/don't want to endeavor) fix the collar that attaches the intake line to the pump a while back because the original (15 years old) broke. I played with the 3 intake valves after running the pump full, closing them and shutting the pool off. As I said, when all 3 closed, the system didn't leak. But as soon as I open any of the 3, it starts bubbling and the water starts dropping.

Makes me think it's in that collar connection. Thoughts? Pics coming in 2 minutes if you want to wait to respond and THANK YOU AGAIN!

I don't have the knowledge y'all do so please know in other areas of my life where I do have knowledge, I try to follow both your's and Herman's example.

Texans help Texans. And others!

Pictures will help as we need to understand where the diverter valves are positioned and try to highlight which ones you have turned.
Also, you mentioned if you turn any of the 3 the pump basket drains. Did you try 3 separate tests to confirm that it happens on each one as you open it?
Also, can you confirm if this is a NEW issue? (meaning it has worked previously but now is draining the pump basket)

 

[Jimrahbe]

Ellis,

If water is dripping, then that is most likely the problem. You should not have any water dripping any where.

Jim R.

 

[TexasEllis]

Herman,
The problem has happened off and on for a few months (confounding me) and the pumps are on higher ground than the pool but this problem has never occurred before. It was when I was out at the equipment today I remembered he fixed the broken collar with a new one. (It's the collar in front of the pump.) Yes, i tested them individually and the response was the same.....bubbling then the water in the basket starts to drop.

Jim, no leaks when running or turned off.

I need you 2 as neighbors. I pay handsomely in beer or BBQ on an offset with Post Oak.

 

[Jimrahbe]

But as soon as I open any of the 3, it starts bubbling and the water starts dropping.

Ellis,

What does dripping mean? Do you see the drip or are you talking about a sound?

Keep in mind that when you shut off all three valves. You basically no longer have a path for the water to drain back into the pool. Just because it works with the valves closed does not mean one of the valve is bad. Actually, since it does not matter which valve you open it starts to leak again, leads me to say the problem is up hill from the intake valves.

What kind of filter do you have?

Jim R.

 

[HermanTX]

I just want to highlight (and I am sure you are aware) - The 3 diverter valves you show should never be ALL closed at the same time unless the spa side is open. The picture shows all suction intake is closed off, even the upper one that is closed to the spa. At least one has to be open for the pump to draw water.

So back to your issue and thanks for the clarification of timing, repairs, etc.
The pump being higher than your pool water level is a potential issue. However you state the system was working fine before (several months ago). So I would proceed with following
Turn off your pump
Remove each of the diverter valves - it is simple to do by removing the screws and the top pops off. First remove the screw lock that holds the handle. Take note of orientation.
There are 2 orings on each of the stems and 1 oring on the top which seals against the body.
Ideally you want to change all of those but you would need to buy the parts (available on Amazon or local pool store)
But you can remove the orings, check them that they are in good shape and reinstall them with lubricant.
Do this for each and see if that helps.

Also, take a picture of your filter and specifically the gauge attachment.
Thanks

 

[Jimrahbe]

I just want to highlight (and I am sure you are aware) - The 3 diverter valves you show should never be ALL closed at the same time unless the spa side is open. The picture shows all suction intake is closed off, even the upper one that is closed to the spa. At least one has to be open for the pump to draw water.

As Herman points out... Never run the pump with all 4 intake valves closed.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[TexasEllis]

Work has me going so I can't get out there for a few more days. My guy is going to come by to check on his work. The filter is the standard Jandy barrel filter.

I don't run the pump with the 3 valves closed for more time than it takes to close all 3 and reach over to the control box to turn the pool off. When I am having issues, I pop the lid, fill the basket with water, close the lid, turn the pool back on and then open the main line. That generally starts flow going and when it's strong enough, I nurse the first skimmer basket line to a full flow and the next one as well.

No hissing sound from the filter indicating it is not the cause of the air coming in.

If I am running the pool and shut it off, air comes in to the basket within a minute and the water level drops. But if all 3 valves are shut off after the pool is turned off, no air comes in. I am really thinking it's between the valves and the basket, where he replaced the collar. If that's not it, sure hoping he can figure it out. I will be tied up a few days but will report back after he does his work.

I really, really appreciate your help gents. Mighty kind of you.

 

[HermanTX]

If I am running the pool and shut it off, air comes in to the basket within a minute and the water level drops. But if all 3 valves are shut off after the pool is turned off, no air comes in. I am really thinking it's between the valves and the basket, where he replaced the collar.

It could be the collar and since that was actually changed, it is a good place to start. But I was under the impression that the system worked fine after that replacement collar was put in place. You may ask if he replaced both sides of the union or just the side with the collar. You could have a misamatched seal where those 2 pieced come together if he did not replace both sides.

However, if that does not solve the problem, then look at the 2 way valves.
As noted in the drawing below, when the valve is CLOSED as shown in your picture, the seal of that diverter (noted in RED) is against the pipe opening and there is no pressure acting on the stem orings or the cover oring (noted in BLUE). Only when you open the valve then they see system pressure. They (one, two, or all three) could have some small leak, so I would disassemble those, lube the orings and reassemble. It is an easy job. Just take your time and use manual screwdriver as you do not want to overtighten the cover screws upon reassembly.

The other issue, which Jim pointed out, was that the seal where filter gauge screws into the filter could have a small leak. That would allow the water level to drop when the pump stops. However, since it seems to hold when the 3 valves are closed, you could say that the filter is not the issue, however, with the 3 valves closed (actually 4 as the spa side is closed as well), you have a closed system - there is nowhere for the water to go. So you may want to check that the gauge seal is good as well.

One way to stop the water, is to place a check valve between the pump entrance and the 3-way diverter valve. That way it will always hold water in the pump when the pump turns off regardless of the settings of your skimmer diverter valves. It will open when the pump turns on and starts to draw suction. However, based on your picture, it appears there is not much room to install a check valve there. In fact, fitting the union looked to be a challenge.

Keep us updated on your investigation.

 

[TexasEllis]

Apologize for the late update, slipped my mind. (Don't get old, you forget S about 15 seconds after you think about it.)

Pool guy came out and isolated the problem to the rubber O-rings in the electric Jandy controller that feeds in to the pump past the 3 hand held controls. Replaced them with new lubed ones and everything is running fine.

Thank you again to all who took the time and effort to try to get me straightened out. Really appreciate y'all doing that. Fine group of folk here.