Jandy LXi CHECK IGN CONTROL fault

[afgoody]

I'm getting a CHECK IGN CONTROL fault on my Jandy LXi. It will turn on and attempt to ignite a few times in 4 minutes, but it's unable to start.

I have a voltmeter, so I've gone through the troubleshooting steps in this guide (https://www.fwwebb.com/docs/gas/JandyPoolHeaterTroubleshootingGuides.pdf) having to test at the yellow wire connection point on the PIB instead of the Transformer for all references to yellow wire (1), but I don't think that should have affected my results:

Step 1 - 245.9V
Step 2 - Unable (cannot get to red wire (2)), but considering the next few steps test good, I think this does not matter
Steps 3-9 - 26.5V
Step 10 - 26.4V (had to turn on heater starting w/ this step)
Step 11 - 26.1V
Step 12 - Yes, blower is on
Step 13 - 25.0V
Step 14 - 26.3V
Step 15 - I do not know how to check if the igniter is glowing, so I assumed NO and proceeded w/ the boxed steps. Voltage between K and J was 0V. Voltage between L1 and L2 was 133V. Considering all the rest of my readings were high, I figured this meant the 105-130V criteria was met and ordered a replacement Ignition Control off eBay.

I replaced it today, but it did not work.

Here's a video of the entire sequence

You can hear a buzzing at ~1:05, 2:05, and 3:05 which I think is the igniter trying to fire.

Does anyone have a suggestion for my next steps?

Thank you.

 

[ajw22]

NG or propane?

You sure you have a good gas supply and proper gas pressure?

@setsailsoon ideas?

 

[afgoody]

NG or propane?

You sure you have a good gas supply and proper gas pressure?

@setsailsoon ideas?

It's natural gas. I don't how to test the gas supply and pressure, but it worked fine ~last September.

 

[ajw22]

Have you not run the heater between September and now?

Check for spiders and other insects in the gas burner.

Jandy LXi manual is here - https://www.jandy.ca/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0286900.pdf?force=1

See page 40 8.3.2 point 6 -
Check for spider webs or other obstructions in the
main burner orifices – especially at spring start-up.
Clean with wire brush if necessary

See Troubleshooting - Page 41 - point 9 - Igniter lights but main burners will not come on.

 

[afgoody]

Have you not run the heater between September and now?

Check for spiders and other insects in the gas burner.

Jandy LXi manual is here - https://www.jandy.ca/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0286900.pdf?force=1

See page 40 8.3.2 point 6 -
Check for spider webs or other obstructions in the
main burner orifices – especially at spring start-up.
Clean with wire brush if necessary

See Troubleshooting - Page 41 - point 9 - Igniter lights but main burners will not come on.

Correct, I have not run it since September. In the winter, we don't use our pool at all and rarely use our spa.

I reviewed the manual, but don't see where it explains exactly what/how to inspect those areas. So, I took the bottom panel off to take a look in that area. It appeared clean.


All other areas seem inaccessible.

For your "Igniter lights but main burners will not come on" suggestion:

A. Turn knob to “on” position. DONE
B. Cycle ignition sequence until air is out of the gas line. HOW?
C. Replace gas valve. NOT SELF HELP. PROFESSIONAL REQUIRED.
D. Check controls for proper operation. SEEMS LIKE THE POINT OF THE TROUBLESHOOTING ;-)
E. Check supply pressure and manifold. NOT SELF HELP. PROFESSIONAL REQUIRED.
F. Check burner throat pressure. NOT SELF HELP. PROFESSIONAL REQUIRED.

 

[ajw22]

Which part did you replace from eBay? If it was the Fenwal box @setsailsoon bought a Fenwal on eBay that did not work and then bought a good one from an authorized distributor.

Do you smell gas when it attempts to ignite?

You see the Fenwal box? It sends power to the gas valve to open when the igniter begins sparking. The gas valve may not be opening. See step 16 of your troubleshooting guide.

You can read about the Fenwal box operation in Heater Flame Sensing - Further Reading

 

[setsailsoon]

I hear the gas valve click but I don't hear the flame ignite. Do you smell gas momentarily? If so this points to a bad igniter or igniter wires or connections. If not points to gas supply or gas valve. I would test the igniter with ac power before you buy anything else. Your original situation did not indicate bad control board.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

In order to make it through the ignition sequence the Fenwal is detecting call for heat from the control board which means the safety circuits all report safe condition from the UCB. Also the fan pressure is verified as safe at the Fenwal. At this point the heater has completed a preheat cycle with the igniter energized and then opens the gas valve for 7 seconds. During the 7 seconds the ground for the igniter is interrupted and the igniter becomes the flame sense signal source. If the igniter does not function or gas does not flow and get ignited you don't get flame sense detected through the ground circuit from the burners. So this looks to me like an igniter or igniter circuit (more likely in my opinion) or a gas supply issue. Gas supply means supply, gas valve or an obstruction in the gas flow path.

Chris

 

[setsailsoon]

Can you please give us the model number of your heater. It's possible you have a separate igniter and flame sense rod which changes the sequence somewhat.

 

[setsailsoon]

Just verified you do have a separate HSI and Flame Sense Rod. This just means during the ignition cycle 110 v is supplied to the flame sense rod and if a flame is present a tiny signal (couple millionths of amp) flows to the burner base and back to the Fenwal circuitry to prove flame and leave the gas valve open. You should also have a view port that allows you to see the igniter glowing. Do you see the glowing just before you hear the gas valve relay energize?

 

[afgoody]

Yes, it was the Fenwal Igniter (35-665942-113) that I bought off eBay. I don’t smell gas, but if it would be faint I’m also not sure where I should be smelling (haha)...and it’s windy today. It’s an LXi250N. I’m not sure how anything could have gotten in the gas supply piping as everything appears intact.

There’s a black cover on the right side bottom where the SIGHT GLASS arrow points.

 

[ajw22]

I don’t smell gas, but if it would be faint I’m also not sure where I should be smelling (haha)...and it’s windy today.

Identify the gas valve and gas manifold in the bottom of your heater. See...

Lxi 250 Gas Manifold With Orifices, Natural Gas (r0454803) - INYOPools.com

"LXI 250 GAS MANIFOLD WITH ORIFICES, NATURAL GAS" (R0454803) - Pool & Spa Parts

www.inyopools.com

You can also see the 5 brass orifices that can get clogged. When the heater tries to light you should smell gas from that lower area. Get down there while it is trying to light.

 

[setsailsoon]

There should be enough gas that you can smell it. Sounds more like gas issue. I would run gas to conclusion. Did you see the igniter glow? You should also see this. As Allen pointed out the 5 brass orifices can clog. This area is very prone to clogging. You can also jump 24vac to the gas valve to open it to see if you get gas smell. Not hard to do but you must be very careful and only do this for short time.

 

[setsailsoon]

You should smell gas in the exhaust vent. The blower will force air through the system and carry unburned gas out the exhaust. It was very prominent on my heater.

 

[afgoody]

Embarrassed to admit that the sight window was actually easy. I thought I didn’t have one at all, but just needed to pop off that plastic piece. Anyways, the igniter glows until the valve is sent the signal to open (I get 26V at VAL) when it seems to fail and the igniter extinguishes. I see no clogging anywhere in the manifold.

Step 16 suggests I need to replace the gas valve. What do you think?

 

[ajw22]

Are you sure that you do not have a gas shutoff valve that is off in the gas feed line to the heater? Usually there is a lever valve to shutoff the gas to the heater.

 

[afgoody]

Are you sure that you do not have a gas shutoff valve that is off in the gas feed line to the heater? Usually there is a lever valve to shutoff the gas to the heater.

I’m sure. It’s open.

 

[ajw22]

As Chris said you can energize the gas valve with 24v AC and see if you smell gas. Just be careful working around gas. Or now may be the time to bring in a professional.

 

[setsailsoon]

Your ignition cycle is normal The relay you hear is opening or trying to open the gas valve but no gas is making it to the burner. Here's what I'd do:

• With heater power off and gas supply valve downstream of your main house meter closed break open the gas supply line as close to the heater as possible. Then have somebody open the gas valve briefly to verify gas supply to the heater. You should immediately smell gas. It's simple to do and even if you are certain you have gas supply it's worth checking. If you don't smell gas the problem is upstream of your heater. Check for stuck or blocked regulators etc. This should be easy to fix. If you don't have a manometer or you're not comfortable with gas get a gas plumber to help. After repairs are made you'll need to adjust gas supply to be sure it stays within the range specified for your heater.
• If gas supply to your heater checks out re-connect and bubble check to be sure you're sealed properly.
• Then remove power to the igniter and open the gas supply to the blower at the union. Be careful not to pull off any of the rubber vacuum lines accidentally. Inspect the orifice to be sure it's not obstructed. Then rig up 24 vac supply to the gas valve. Open the valve with 24 vac briefly and check for gas flow.
• If no gas flow you have an issue internal to the gas valve and probably need to replace it. May be worth trying to blow it out with compressed air first.

If you replace the gas valve or remove and re-install it, you should also adjust the differential. The regulator in these heaters actually supply a controlled negative pressure to the inlet of the blower and it needs to be within a narrow range for optimal flame. You can do this easily with a digital gas manometer or get a gas plumber to help.

I think you're getting close!

Chris

PS Thanks to @swamprat69 for teaching me about this stuff in the first place.... He may have some additional thoughts.

 

[swamprat69]

Checked the manual for your system...https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0286900.pdf and it is not quite like setsailsoons' system in that it does not run a negative pressure gas valve. It is a gas/air premix system though rather than an induced draft system. These can be quite picky as to adjustments. From your photo, I think that I see some corrosion around the burner inlets and also at the plate covering access to the combustion chamber which could be indicative of leakage at the gaskets or blockage in the flue gas passage (these might get a better seal if the screws are tightened). Do you know how old the heater is? Has it ever been cleaned? Not lighting off with a good hot surface ignitor can be due to many things i.e. no or insufficient gas supply pressure, one of the two redundant gas valve solenoids not opening, incorrect gas valve supply pressure to the manifold, blockage of gas flow at the manifold orifices-inside of the burner tubes or burner slots due to spiderwebs- dirt or rust/corrosion. Leakage at the gasket seals ( the white fiberglass like gaskets that you see where you have metal to metal contact that needs to be airtight) like the burner access door seal that I see came apart in pieces and also some seals that you can't see without taking the heater apart. Incorrect air and/or gas supply pressures. It should probably be cleaned (should also clean the flame sensor at the same time) and the gas/airpressure checked/adjusted. Gaskets may need to be checked and possibly replaced. Looking at the parts list I did not see gaskets available as separate parts, but only as part of an assembly replacement. You might check to see if gaskets are available separately, but only as needed as a last resort. Would be happy to try to answer any other questions that you may have.