Jandy JXI with Versaflo Heater

[setsailsoon]

15,

I think that's a question for your gas company. But you may not need one. Just add up the max heat and gas consumption to see how close you'll be. Also note meters are rated at .5" WC drop that is not the max you can use. At 2" drop you can get over 2000 cu ft per hr. This should leave you with 10" at the discharge and should be adequate unless you have very long runs of small diameter pipe. If it were me I'd just manage the pool as the lowest priority. Seems like it will be pretty rare you do max on everything and in that case the pool isn't likely to be needed. Also you can always do a load test. Just crank everything up at once (make sure the genset is under load not just idling). Then start the heater and see what happens. I do a full load test on my genset every year at the beginning of hurricane season by opening the main disconnect at the meter.

Chris

 

[Pperc]

15,

I think that's a question for your gas company. But you may not need one. Just add up the max heat and gas consumption to see how close you'll be. Also note meters are rated at .5" WC drop that is not the max you can use. At 2" drop you can get over 2000 cu ft per hr. This should leave you with 10" at the discharge and should be adequate unless you have very long runs of small diameter pipe. If it were me I'd just manage the pool as the lowest priority. Seems like it will be pretty rare you do max on everything and in that case the pool isn't likely to be needed. Also you can always do a load test. Just crank everything up at once (make sure the genset is under load not just idling). Then start the heater and see what happens. I do a full load test on my genset every year at the beginning of hurricane season by opening the main disconnect at the meter.

Chris

thanks. If generator is on it’s simple to turn off the pool heater.

 

[Pperc]

15,

I think that's a question for your gas company. But you may not need one. Just add up the max heat and gas consumption to see how close you'll be. Also note meters are rated at .5" WC drop that is not the max you can use. At 2" drop you can get over 2000 cu ft per hr. This should leave you with 10" at the discharge and should be adequate unless you have very long runs of small diameter pipe. If it were me I'd just manage the pool as the lowest priority. Seems like it will be pretty rare you do max on everything and in that case the pool isn't likely to be needed. Also you can always do a load test. Just crank everything up at once (make sure the genset is under load not just idling). Then start the heater and see what happens. I do a full load test on my genset every year at the beginning of hurricane season by opening the main disconnect at the meter.

Chris

So, my Jandy Jxi was installed today with the Versaflo feature. It fired up OK once when the guy was here, but when I tried to fire it up myself it gave an error code. It said Fault Check Louver. Picture attached. I can’t find a single reference to this error code anywhere. Have you seen this?
I was able to get it to fire by increasing the pump speed significantly (2900 rpm where my filter pressure was around 25 psi). They plumbed going into the heater/versaflo with a 90 degree turn in the PVC literally right on the inlet and outlet to the heater. Any thoughts? The guy also admitted to me by text that he left the water pressure switch set to factory settings even though my heater is 3-4 feet below pool level.

 

[Pperc]

The thing will fire up but I have to turn it off and on a few times. Always the Fault Check Louver but sometimes it goes through and works. Very frustrating.

 

[PoolGate]

Why did he plumb like that? Was it because that's where the gas line was located? It's not a huge deal it should work fine with all those extra turns and bends. I'm wondering if louvers has something to do with the versa flow stuff. Anyway hopefully he comes back and fixed it correctly.

 

[Pperc]

Why did he plumb like that? Was it because that's where the gas line was located? It's not a huge deal it should work fine with all those extra turns and bends. I'm wondering if louvers has something to do with the versa flow stuff. Anyway hopefully he comes back and fixed it correctly.

Yeah, gas line and water both coming in from the same side. I get why he plumbed it that way - probably the easiest thing to do.
With the extra turns/bends - does that mean the pump will need to run at higher rpms to increase pressure more?
He’s never seen this error code either so he said he has to call Jandy support on Monday when they are open.
I hope Louver is related to VersaFlo but I have no idea. This one was VersaFlo factory installed which gives 5 year warranty on the heat exhchanger.
I find zero reference to Check Louver Fault on any website at all related to this Jandy. Know anyone in their support?

 

[PoolGate]

Yeah, gas line and water both coming in from the same side. I get why he plumbed it that way - probably the easiest thing to do.
With the extra turns/bends - does that mean the pump will need to run at higher rpms to increase pressure more?
He’s never seen this error code either so he said he has to call Jandy support on Monday when they are open.
I hope Louver is related to VersaFlo but I have no idea. This one was VersaFlo factory installed which gives 5 year warranty on the heat exhchanger.
I find zero reference to Check Louver Fault on any website at all related to this Jandy. Know anyone in their support?

Your pressure and flow drop from the extra bends should be negligible. I don't know anyone in support.

 

[PoolGate]

Yeah, gas line and water both coming in from the same side. I get why he plumbed it that way - probably the easiest thing to do.
With the extra turns/bends - does that mean the pump will need to run at higher rpms to increase pressure more?
He’s never seen this error code either so he said he has to call Jandy support on Monday when they are open.
I hope Louver is related to VersaFlo but I have no idea. This one was VersaFlo factory installed which gives 5 year warranty on the heat exhchanger.
I find zero reference to Check Louver Fault on any website at all related to this Jandy. Know anyone in their support?

The VersaFlow installation manual (page 5) does reference a louver so I suspect this is the issue.

I'd call your installer and tell him this he should be able to figure out what is wrong with this new info.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0493300.pdf?force=1

 

[setsailsoon]

Sorry to hear you are having this problem. I am not familiar with the versaflo but can offer a couple of suggestions. First the installer certainly should adjust the pressure sensor properly for your installation. He should do this for you at no charge. Not sure what the heater is sensing about the louver but it may be related to low flow. if your flow rate is low your outlet temperature of the air could be higher than normal. Also you should not try to slow down the flow rate too much during heater operation. This can be false economy because you need to be well into the turbulent flow regime to maximize the overall heat transfer coefficient. So you save a little on pumping cost but pay much more in lower efficiency of the heater.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

[Pperc]

The VersaFlow installation manual (page 5) does reference a louver so I suspect this is the issue.

I'd call your installer and tell him this he should be able to figure out what is wrong with this new info.

https://www.jandy.com/-/media/zodiac/global/downloads/h/h0493300.pdf?force=1

Thanks he will be trying Monday and also calling Jandy. This JXi doesn’t use the Louver (no wires run to it in the diagram) so a bit odd.

 

[Pperc]

Sorry to hear you are having this problem. I am not familiar with the versaflo but can offer a couple of suggestions. First the installer certainly should adjust the pressure sensor properly for your installation. He should do this for you at no charge. Not sure what the heater is sensing about the louver but it may be related to low flow. if your flow rate is low your outlet temperature of the air could be higher than normal. Also you should not try to slow down the flow rate too much during heater operation. This can be false economy because you need to be well into the turbulent flow regime to maximize the overall heat transfer coefficient. So you save a little on pumping cost but pay much more in lower efficiency of the heater.

I hope this helps.

Chris

Thanks. It’s set to run at 2950 rpm for heater mode and that seems high to me. The filter pressure is higher than with my old pump (single speed Pentair whisperflo 1.5hp) using the old Hayward heater and that heater started just fine until it broke (25 psi vs 18 psi). And even now I have to turn the Jandy JXi off then on a few times for it to start up. Now, the pump does ramp up from 1900 to 2950 while the heater is trying to kick in. Could this be the issue? I have the standard filtering without the heater on set to 1900rpm and that’s giving me a filter pressure of around 11.
I wish I knew the actual flow rate. Unfortunately, despite having a new Pentair VSF pump, the iAquaLink can only detect it as a VS pump and not as a VF. So I can’t read the flow rate from the app and the screen on the pump doesn’t show anything either. No clue if there is a workaround.

 

[Pperc]

I emailed tech support and here is what they said. Basically, just “turn it off”. Lol. Seems oddly simple. I’ll try it but a bit odd that’s what would cause the heater to fire intermittently?


Hello,

The setting is intended for actuating a mechanical lover that is attached to a door for air intake. This setting can be disabled by holding 'menu, pool and spa' simultaneously and scrolling to 'louver' selecting disable and pressing menu to save.

Pool Owner Technical Support
Technical Support Rep

 

[Pperc]

Pool heater installer came back today and worked on it for 3 hours or so. He talked to Jandy on the phone. He replaced some wire they used with a copper wire instead (related to the Louver on some circuit board) - he was told to by Jandy support on the phone. That fixed that problem with the Louver error. Then he had to work on getting the VSP right so that flow was sufficient and didn't give flow errors. He also back washed the filter which he said helped get around the flow error. I was using 8 scoops of DE and he recommended switching to 5 scoops after a good back wash. Not a big deal either way. 8 was probably heavy with the blue scoop I was using. 5-7 is likely fine. He also changed a setting to External T-Stat which is now flashing. Before that wasn't turned on. He also tweaked the pressure sensor slightly.

He also recommended switching to pH down from muriatic acid so my TA didn't get effected. Then I told him my TA stays between 70-80 with muriatic acid. Pool guys are kinda all the same. They don't have time to understand chemistry so they just follow guides. He said he has guides that say keep TA between 100-150 and some that say between 80-120. So he has no idea what to believe.

 

[PoolGate]

Good news! FYI: You should not run that heater with the pump lower than 3000 rpms.

Do you have automation like Aqualink? I think you said you did. You should be controlling the heater with a 4 wire cable. You can control it with the simple on/off remote thermostat but that isn't what I would do. In either case, you should not be controlling anything at the heater panel the Aqualink interface should control it all.

 

[Pperc]

Good news! FYI: You should not run that heater with the pump lower than 3000 rpms.

Do you have automation like Aqualink? I think you said you did. You should be controlling the heater with a 4 wire cable. You can control it with the simple on/off remote thermostat but that isn't what I would do. In either case, you should not be controlling anything at the heater panel the Aqualink interface should control it all.

Why 3000 rpms? How does that translate to flow? Doesn't this depend on my specific plumbing? If I was up at 3000 rpm my filter psi would be over 25.

Yes, I just got the new iAqualink upgrade. Yes, it's controlled by the iAqualink app. I do not control it from the heater itself. For some reason it wasn't in External T-Stat mode before... that said, it still was being controlled by iAqualink either way. I guess the Jandy guy told him to put it in T-Stat mode? So, everything is controlled from the app on the heater: On/Off, temp, etc. He encouraged me to set up a schedule via the app for the heater being on vs. off. How should I be thinking about that?

 

[PoolGate]

Why 3000 rpms? How does that translate to flow? Doesn't this depend on my specific plumbing? If I was up at 3000 rpm my filter psi would be over 25.

Yes, I just got the new iAqualink upgrade. Yes, it's controlled by the iAqualink app. I do not control it from the heater itself. For some reason it wasn't in External T-Stat mode before... that said, it still was being controlled by iAqualink either way. I guess the Jandy guy told him to put it in T-Stat mode? So, everything is controlled from the app on the heater: On/Off, temp, etc. He encouraged me to set up a schedule via the app for the heater being on vs. off. How should I be thinking about that?

400k btu is a LOT of energy. The goal is not to see how low you can run things. That heater should be as high as you can get it for efficiency but no less than 3k.

I fail to see any point to scheduling the heater. That tech is dumb. That is the point of the thermostat. Now if you have a set time when you swim like every Saturday at 2, or some party, maybe put it in the schedule so you don't forget. But I'm still majorly against scheduling the heater. That will heat 1-2 degrees per hour. Backtrack accordingly and turn it on when you need it. It has 2 set points. I set one of mine for 85 since i never want the pool below that and the 2nd one for like 92 when we actually swim.

I think you must lose something when setting up the heater as a generic heater. Maybe the automatic cool down mode or something. I suggest you set it up properly with the 4 wire connection. It's Jandy talking to Jandy that's what the 4 wire was designed for.

 

[ajw22]

I schedule my heater to be on from 9AM to 9PM. I don't want it running all night. The heater usually runs for a bit in the morning to restore any heat lost overnight and get the pool back to the temperature setpoint.

 

[Pperc]

400k btu is a LOT of energy. The goal is not to see how low you can run things. That heater should be as high as you can get it for efficiency but no less than 3k.

I fail to see any point to scheduling the heater. That tech is dumb. That is the point of the thermostat. Now if you have a set time when you swim like every Saturday at 2, or some party, maybe put it in the schedule so you don't forget. But I'm still majorly against scheduling the heater. That will heat 1-2 degrees per hour. Backtrack accordingly and turn it on when you need it. It has 2 set points. I set one of mine for 85 since i never want the pool below that and the 2nd one for like 92 when we actually swim.

I think you must lose something when setting up the heater as a generic heater. Maybe the automatic cool down mode or something. I suggest you set it up properly with the 4 wire connection. It's Jandy talking to Jandy that's what the 4 wire was designed for.

Couple of clarifying questions:

did you mean the pump should be as high as I can get it? what psi on my filter is too high? What if I exceed 100gpm and not realize it?

so rather than schedule you suggest I leave the heater on all the time and define a temp to keep it at? Or just turn it on when I think we want to swim?

what do you mean you can do two settings? Do you have 2 heaters? How do you set it a 85 and 92? or do you leave it set at 85 so it kicks on below that and then when you want to swim you crank it up to 92 a few hours earlier? 92 seems very hot to me. We swim at 85 and it’s great for us.

i was assuming they used the 4 wire connection? Why are you assuming they did not? How can I check?

 

[Pperc]

I schedule my heater to be on from 9AM to 9PM. I don't want it running all night. The heater usually runs for a bit int he morning to restore any heat lost overnight and get the pool back to the temperature setpoint.

This sort of makes sense to me.

 

[Pperc]

So they did not use the 4 wire. One 4 wire port was used for the iq-20 upgrade. The other was used for both the VSF Pentair pump and the old pda controller for the box. It’s a bit odd. The heater is on a 2 wire.