Is there a structural need for the standard 42/48" steel or block side wall on most vinyl pools?

[49ajmd]

For most vinyl pool builds, I see a setups like this:


Roughly 4' pre-fab walls from steel, block, or poly, then a transition into the excavated walls and floor. I'm curious what the benefit of those pre-fab walls are - is it time saving, structural, aesthetic?

An alternative would look something like this, where the side walls are only ~16" before transitioning into the hopper wall:

 

[ajw22]

It takes a lot less time and manpower to erect prefab walls then hauling in a lot of blocks and stacking them.

I think with a block formed pool you may be more then halfway towards building a gunite/paster pool.

 

[49ajmd]

I can see how my first post was confusing, but I wasn't intending to ask about pre-fab walls vs stacked blocks.

What I'm curious about is if there's any benefit or structural need to build a standard 4' side wall (regardless of material) before transitioning into a hopper wall. Actually, I think the question is even more relevant when considering stacked block.

I.e. what purpose is the 4'ft side wall serving, could the hopper wall go all the way up to the waterline (or much closer)?


I think a smaller side wall would have benefits for a DIY build

 

[ajw22]

Let's ask @jimmythegreek

 

[49ajmd]

I didn't know you could @ folks @ajw22 - thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[kimkats]

I am not sure if what I am about to say if valid but here is the first thing I though when I saw that last pic is:
-water damage. If any water gets to the dirt wall it could cause the wall to swell or collapse. Like I said I am not sure if this is a valid thought.

 

[ajw22]

The solid walls stabilize the ground, protect the liner sides, and keep water from getting behind the liner.

You can just dig a big hole in the ground and hang a liner off the deck but I don’t think the liner sidewalls would last long.

 

[Newdude]

Hey 49!!! The 3rd pic in post#1 is your answer. They lost a considerable amount of shallow end real estate to build it that way. The 18ft wide pool is really a 14ft for the cost of an 18ft. I like it and think it's neat, but most people wouldn't so they go with walls to maximize the usable space.

The traditional deep end hopper is there to be a ledge and save on material costs. I have an 8 ft deep basement that doesn't collapse, so it doesnt need the hopper for any structural support.

Steel wall pools saved a ton of money until 2 years ago. That was the benefit until the shortages made everything stupid expensive. At the moment they cost what a cement wall vinyl pool costs. Last time we opted to spend the money and go with cement walls that would last forever VS the steel walls that wouldn't last our lifetime. This time the costs were too similar to not want the cement pool.

The cement wall vinyl pool is one day to dig, half a day to setup the forms and pour the walls like a house foundation and then they can install the liner 9 days (?) later. (Weather and curing permitting) Steel wall pools don't save any considerable time over that.

But both kinds of liner pool save a considerable amount of time and money over a plaster pool.

 

[Orion7319]

Last time we opted to spend the money and go with cement walls that would last forever VS the steel walls that wouldn't last our lifetime.

My pool has some sort of poly walls. Apparently it was installed sometime back in the late 70’s early 80’s. When we had the liner replaced they looked new. They outlasted the fiberglass steps which had to be busted up. Steel walls don’t seem like the best way to go to me as every picture I see of old steel walled pools getting liner replacements, the walls are all rusty.

 

[Newdude]

Steel walls don’t seem like the best way to go to me as every picture I see of old steel walled pools getting liner replacements, the walls are all rusty.

30 years is probably average. Some make it to 40 or more. Last time that wasn't a 'lifetime' pool, but 10 years later, it is.

 

[Orion7319]

30 years is probably average. Some make it to 40 or more. Last time that wasn't a 'lifetime' pool, but 10 years later, it is.

My particular pool already lasted one couples lifetime (the folks who built it in the 60’s) My wife and I aren’t planning on moving ever… so hoping this pool is a double the lifetime pool..

 

[jimmythegreek]

Pre fab walls are just easier overall. Small 2 man crew can handle install, and no back breaking masonry to jump. The only need for walls is to de-couple liner from the earth. The main issue becomes apparent when a liner change is needed. Without some structural ability your hole would lose shape without walls. Those pics of angled walls are specific to a region and that soil can take some abuse. The majority of us build where the soil fights you every step of the way. Also aesthetics play into it, a plumb wall looks nicer and is larger, you lose alot of space with angled walls