Is there a pump fitting adapter to stop this inlet leak?

[jblizzle]

The red drain is really just a way to pump out some water to waste to lower the water level. Or you could use it to take a water sample, or you could hook a hose to it in use it in water fights in the pool

 

[rock]

ask about this "miracle in a tube" you speak of

This is the "miracle in a tube"
- Plast-aid (970)577-1000, talk to "Randy".
- The material matters greatly: if it's PVC, Acrylic, or Styrene, it will work; if it's Nylon or PBS plastic, it won't stick.
- One way to test is to put lacquer thinner on the plastic and if it gets sticky, it's good to go.

Here is the "miracle" procedure:
1. Wipe the outside of the Jandy valve clean with a paper towel
2. Put just the liquid on a corner of the paper towel
3. Wipe that liquid over a half inch on both sides of the crack
4. Then mix the plastic liquid and powder to a drippy consistency
Note: It must be wet to work!
5. Smear a thin layer over the crack half inch on both sides of the crack
In time, the consistency will get frosting thick
Wait until it's no longer drippy on this bonding layer
6. Then smear a new layer on top to add thickness for strength
The first smear is the chemical bond; The second smear is for strength.

The two components liquid and powder, become part of the Jandy valve plastic.
Randy says this is different than adhesives which work by polar attraction.
He explained Chem Quip in San Jose distributes the stuff, and SCP in San Jose or Spa Depot in Seattle.
Depending on where you live, you may have to ask Randy where to get the stuff.

The red drain is really just a way to pump out some water to waste to lower the water level.

OK. Since the equipment is 8 feet below the pool, lowering the water level is never a problem, as there are a half dozen ways for water to exit (e.g., pump plugs, filter plugs, and the pump basket).

When I get home today, I hope to get the first pump relocated, plumbing and electrical, with unions so that I can simply remove the pump, motor and all, when necessary. Then, once the first pump is relocated, I will work on moving that second pump (the one with the red valve).

Do you guys bolt the pump down? (If so, I need to drill the concrete.)

 

[jblizzle]

Seems that most people do NOT bolt the pump down ... some reports that makes it sound louder. If that is a problem there are rubber isolators that help I guess.

 

[rock]

most people do NOT bolt the pump down

Thanks. I won't bother bolting them then. If they make noise, I'll handle the vibration after the fact, since I'll be adding fittings to make pump removal a piece of cake anyway.

A related question, while I have the two 1.65HP motors out and on the bench, is what preventive maintenance can I do on my current (1 year old) motors to prevent them from "freezing" up like these last three did (they're outdoors)?

I ended up replacing all three motors, but I don't want that to happen again - so that's why I ask about preventive measures while the motor is in my hands.

I'm thinking:
a) Buying new cover bolts (stainless steel?)
b) Buying those very long 15" (or whatever) bolts (again, stainless steel?)
c) Buying two new bearings per motor
d) Anything else for the motor itself?

 

[rock]

BTW, to test what the red valve does, I removed the plug at the bottom of the filter, with all the pool Jandy valves in their normal (open) position; and the water gurgled out for a few minutes.
Then I opened the red valve; and the water flushed out smoother and faster.

If that's all it does for me, I might not bother to replace it; or, if I do, I might put a more functional threaded fitting on the end of the valve.

 

[jblizzle]

I have seen many setups that put a hose spigot valve screwed into a cap. Then you could attach a hose to it and spray water to drain the pool, or just open the valve to let the filter drain better.

 

[rock]

I have seen many setups that put a hose spigot valve screwed into a cap.

At the risk of scope creep, I will probably put something in like that!
Here's an update on the current status as of last night.

I tried to cut the pipes using my new pipe-cutting tool, but it broke on the very first use:

So I hacksawed the outlet of the filter pump:

And, I hacksawed the inlet of the filter pump:

Removing the wires from the wiring conduit elbow was problematic, as always:

Twisted 10AWG wires were always the result:

But the result was that I now had the room to repair the leaks and relocate both the filter pump and the cleaner pump:

When I sliced the pipe at the Jandy valve of the filter pump a bit closer, I realize there was thick (schedule 200?) gray pipe:

This thick gray pipe should probably be bored out; but I don't have the boring tool:

I was worried the filter pump inlet threaded coupling would be glued in from all the repairs - but it spun out easily:

Here you can see all the caulk and blue glue after the face was likely futile:

However, it can be seen that there certainly was teflon tape used in the original fittings:

And, now I'm ready to put it all back together in a leak-free yet maintenance friendly way:

 

[rock]

At the moment, I need advice as I'm now seriously contemplating removing the cartridge contraption that is on the outlet of the filter itself.

This is the "Aquatech AQTCG35 29135Q" cartridge, apparently suited to 25,000 gallon to 35,000 gallon pools:

This virtually empty cylinder is smack dab in the middle of the outgoing line of the pool filter:

When I open the thing up, it's basically an empty chamber with an orange "restrictor" in the outlet at the very bottom.

I'm not sure of the purpose of the orange "restrictor"; but the water flow is clearly outward from the filter as shown here:

Being curious, I removed the "restrictor" as shown below:

Advice requested.
Taking care not to let scope creep kill me, do you think I should just remove the entire doohicky for a smoother water flow out of the filter?

Note: This Nature2 FAQ sounds like hokus pocus to me. Do you have any experience with these things?

 

[jblizzle]

I don't think that grey pipe is going to cause too much problem at all, so would not worry about boring it out.

Make sure there is not paint on the outside of the Jandy valves before you try to attach the big couplers.

Definitely use the pipe dope and not just the little teflon tape ... and a union on either side of the pump, so you can reseal the threaded fittings if they leak the first time.

This has to be one of the most picture intense posts I have seen ... I like it

 

[jblizzle]

We do not think highly of the Nature 2 here ... no need to add metals to the water. If you have never used the thing (which is good) ... I would seriously consider just pulling it out. I am not sure if you could just put some tablets in there like a regular chlorinator for vacations or not.

 

[rock]

I don't think that grey pipe is going to cause too much problem at all, so would not worry about boring it out...
Make sure there is not paint on the outside of the Jandy valves before you try to attach the big couplers.

I was worried about that fitting on the *outside* of the Jandy valve because that's the weak link.
It's not actually as tight as I would have expected it to be. It will be even less so when I sand off any paint.

So I called Jandy (Zodiac) technical support today 800-822-7933x1(homeowner)x5(tech support all other things), and sent them a link to this thread.
They told me that the 2.5 inch coupling 'should' work even thought it is slightly loose; so cross your fingers for me.

Definitely use the pipe dope and not just the little teflon tape ..

I'll use both!

and a union on either side of the pump

I agree. The goal, other than to fix the leaks, is to make maintenance easier in the future!
For example, notice how easily a straight-through connector is to undo on the spa pump:

These wires are as old as those on the filter & cleaner pumps; but clearly they're in better condition because of the connector shape!

And, notice how the grease I put on the old motor cover bolts about a year ago prevented them from rusting:

Note: In the future, I think I'll use automotive gray anti-seize paste instead of grease.

We do not think highly of the Nature 2 here ...

I wouldn't think so, given that I've read the pool chemical forums where the only thing needed is chlorine to kill stuff (not even phosphate removal is recommended here - which I understand - but which the pool stores go bonkers when I ask them about that).

I would seriously consider just pulling it out. I am not sure if you could just put some tablets in there like a regular chlorinator for vacations or not.

I had to remove the external chlorinator a while ago which was on the OUTLET of the heater. Therefore, I must admit - I had 'thought' about turning this thing into a chlorinator for 3" tablets (or even larger); but the unfortunate thing is that the heater is on the filter outlet and there is no way to bypass the heater. So, that would mean high concentration chlorinated water would be cursing through the heater - which might not be a good thing. Plus, I'm doing just fine with the liquid chlorine plus floaters anyway.

 

[rock]

By way of update, I bought a new pair of 2" PVC cutters, since the first one broke in the first use!

And, I tried to source this threaded schedule 80 "nipple" but Home Depot had nothing of the sort:

Now it's time to put it all back together in the most logical spot (which I'm figuring out by eye):

Although I did toy with JPEG-to-2D freeware CAD software conversion:

 

[rock]

I couldn't find this "special" fitting at Home Depot, so, I'm going to have to re-use it. From the looks of it, it seems to be a nipple of gray schedule 40 epoxied into a 2" T fitting.

I wonder why the original builders didn't just use a "normal" schedule 40 coupling?

Is there any truth to the rumor that it's best to use schedule 200 pipe at the pumps because it handles the heat better?

Anyway, I'm afraid to do the pipes - but - here's my final plan.

How does that compromise look to you?

 

[jblizzle]

I think you want they union straight in front of the pump so that if your threaded connection leaks, you can tighten it up or try again without doing any plumbing ... same thing above the pump.

You should be fine just using a regular mpt schedule 40 fitting into the pump, maybe use CPVC if they got it for a little more heat resistance.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[rock]

I think you want they union straight in front of the pump

I took your kind advice to heart and set up the schedule 80 unions directly in front of the pumps.

In fact, I then set up both pump's unions exactly the same, so that I could swap pumps, should I ever need to do so:

The hardest part was saving the Jandy valves (I didn't want to empty the pool either!) as the 2.5" coupling was the only available solution:

I picked up a long roll of 1" wide 120 grit aluminum oxide sanding cloth:

There may be a better way, but I really liked how easy it was to clean the fitting yet keep it perfectly round:

My only worry was that the 2.5 inch coupling fit a bit loosely onto the outside of the Jandy valve:

With the 2.5 inch to 2 inch bushing, the plumbing was back to the size of schedule 40 PVC pipe:

 

[jblizzle]

That is a good idea to have the pipe line up the same for both so they are interchangeable if needed.

 

[rock]

That is a good idea to have the pipe line up the same for both so they are interchangeable if needed.

Thanks for noticing.

What I did was carefully match the length of the pipes and placed the unions for both pumps in exactly the same locations:

Since this was my first major plumbing re-work job, I found it difficult to simultaneously juggle the various requirements.
I did try to find pen-and-pencil pipe-fitting freeware on the Internet, but the results turned out to be more of a novelty than a practical design solution:

However, in the end, I was able to accomplish the following:
1. I eliminated three 90° elbows & added back one 90° & one 45° elbow for a net halving of the number of elbows.
2. I also eliminated a pipe running inconveniently directly over the pump basket cover (which made it hard to remove the cover).
3. And the unions enable the pumps to be removed easily, and even swapped in an emergency (by carefully matching the inlet pipes and unions by length & location).
4. Of course, I hope that I eliminated the leak at the two pump inlets (but, now if they leak, they'll be easier to repair!).
5. And, the electrical junction box I'm going to add will make removal of the motors vastly easier (especially with the straight-through waterproof conduit ends).

Every schedule 40 and schedule 80 fitting was tightened only hand tight plus two turns to decrease strain on the female fittings.
Note: It turns out that schedule 80 fittings don't increase strength but I had to leave some of the nipples in place due to their custom nature.
Also, since Teflon tape is deprecated in schedule 40 PVC plumbing, I removed all instances of Teflon tape, using only non-hardening PVC sealants.

One problem I ran into was that the filter itself seems to have proprietary Sta-Rite fittings on it, which weren't available at Home Depot, so, i had to re-use them, cutting off as much of the old pipe as I dared:

BTW, do we lubricate union threads?

 

[jblizzle]

The threads on the unions do not have to be water right. I don't think you need to put anything on them

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[rock]

The threads on the unions do not have to be water right. I don't think you need to put anything on them

Thanks for that advice.

Now that the plumbing is done, it's time to move on to the electrical re-wiring.
I'm trying to solve the long-standing problem that I had to twist the entire motor just to twist out the 90° elbow.

This twisting of the entire motor was wreaking havoc with the 10AWG stranded wire, not to mention causing me to curse to no end.

So, I decided to add a junction box; that way, I can disconnect the wiring at the junction box when the pumps or motors need to be removed for servicing. Having never done 220 volt wiring in my life, I'll supply some representative pictures - so that anyone out there who sees where I make a mistake or where I can improve things - can point it out.

The first thing I had to do was figure out what size junction box to buy, and my big lesson was not to trust my measurements of the existing couplings:

I only figured out my measurements (which were accurate) led me to the wrong conclusion, when both this one-inch and 3/4-inch junction box failed to fit the existing 90° elbow:

It turned out that I had all half-inch couplings, even though the measurement of the 90° elbow was clearly a full inch in diameter:

So, a third trip to purchase of a half-inch junction box solved that initial mis-application of the measurements:

The first thing I did was waterproof the bottom of the junction box, following instructions molded into the inside of the box itself:

Next, I added di-electric grease to all the wire connections:

And, I added o-rings to all the junction box connectors, even the old 90° elbows which didn't have them:

I first bought patent-pending one-piece straight-through half-inch conduit connectors; but they apparently spin onto the ribs of the conduit - making it impossible to spin off the motor:

But, after cursing them roundly, I picked up the more standard two-piece half-inch conduit connectors which allow the conduit to twist somewhat for motor removal:

Then I cut the conduit to size using the otherwise nearly useless 2-inch PVC pipe cutters I bought:

I strung in the three 10 AWG stranded copper wires and stripped, and crimped them to fit on the motor endcap connections:

The result is this, at the moment - but do you think I should raise the box a bit to further protect it from water?

And, another question I have is whether I should use the waterproof wire connectors I bought:

Or - if I should just use male spade connectors to connect to the existing female spade connections inside the junction box?

 

[rock]

I went to Home Depot today to replace those horrid patent-pending one-piece conduit connectors, and found these nice two piece connectors.

I also bought extra 10 AWG stranded wire to replace what I put in yesterday so as to have the code-required six inches in the conduit box.

I tried to find male & female insulated spade connectors to connect the wires in the junction box; but they didn't have the 10 AWG size in stock, so I'll just use the waterproof wire nuts with some additional di-electric grease.