Is it time to switch from a single spend pump to a variable speed?

[Liz315]

They wanted almost $3,000 for the intelliflo so superflo vs is what’s going in. Online they show them a ton cheaper I have no clue what’s going on.

 

[Dirk]

In my experience, installers add an exorbitant markup (IMO), and then often add installation labor on top of that. It seems to be industry wide, and industry standard, and since they all do it, and all enjoy the profit, there doesn't seem to be anyone that wants to "go first" to be more competitive.

And the manufacturers encourage this behavior by severely limiting the warranties for any equipment that is installed by anyone else, including the buyer (you).

There's are legitimate reasons for the manufacturers wanting someone qualified to install their products, but not for the price gouging (IMO)...

The online prices that are throwing you off are due to the fact that no installation and little or no warranty is offered.

Pools, boats, homes, repairs, bras, etc... if there is water involved, ya pay double.

 

[Dirk]

They wanted almost $3,000 for the intelliflo so superflo vs is what’s going in. Online they show them a ton cheaper I have no clue what’s going on.

Do you think you'd ever consider adding an automation controller? Or are you sure you never will? Pentair's automation controllers offer more features with the InteilliFlo...

 

[Hal3]

Fine print: Pentair may not honor the warranty unless the pump is installed by a professional pool installer or company on their list.

Your power company my give you a rebate when you install a VS pump. Mind the paperwork required and the timing / deadlines for applying.

 

[Liz315]

Do you think you'd ever consider adding an automation controller? Or are you sure you never will? Pentair's automation controllers offer more features with the InteilliFlo...

I’m getting a number for it now, but I can only imagine the number they will throw out for it. They say I can undo automation with the superflo. My system is simple. 15x30 pool NO water feature, NO spa. 1 skimmer, 1 floor main, 3 returns (1 is a bubbler on the sun deck, 2 lights, heater, swg.
I really don’t need automation but if it’s not terrible it might be a nice upgrade this year or next year. The control pad is about 100 ft from pool and it’s around a corner so I can’t see what the pool is doing from the pad.

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

They say I can undo automation with the superflo.

Maybe...

Confirm which SuperFlo you're getting. Pentair has two current versions:

SuperFlo VS Mdl# 342001: NO RS-485 communication. External control of speed settings is achieved with four separate relays.

SuperFlo VST Mdl# 342002: Has "RS-485 connectivity for improved interface with automation systems and IoT devices to allow more flexibility." It's basically a two-wire connection that communicates better with automation systems.

You want the VST (Trade Grade mdl. #342002) version if you have thoughts of future automation. You still won't be able use the IntelliConnect (the budget friendly automation from Pentair), but it will work with the higher end systems. You'll should get a better warranty with professional install.

 

[Dirk]

They say I can undo automation with the superflo.

We'll need @Jimrahbe for the full story, but Pentair automation has full control over an IntelliFlo, you can set schedules and fine tune the pump speed separately for each schedule. I believe the IntelliFlo is the only pump that can do that. Other Pentair pumps, even with automation, you only get on and off (no RPM control) or with others you can set up four preset RPM settings in the pump and then the automation can select those.

I'm not saying you need an IntelliFlo necessarily, I'm only encouraging you to fully understand what you will and won't be able to do with that SuperFlo if you eventually add automation.

Our pools are similar in functionality (no features, no spa), but I love having the Pentair automation and the IntelliFlo. Mind you, I am an automation freak, so perhaps not the average user, but I use automation a lot:
- I can run my SWG, and take advantage of 1% increments for the output setting
- I can run my cleaner, including between-schedule runs when the pool needs some extra love
- I can run as-needed high-speed skimmer runs, like just before guests arrive. I call that "polishing the pool."
- I can run my pool from my living room wall controller, including adjusting settings
- I can run my heaters, both solar and gas
- I can run and monitor my pool from any of my many devices (iPhone, iPads, laptop, desktops, HA controllers)
- I can run and monitor my pool from anywhere on the planet (and sometimes that's just checking on the pool temp on the way home from work)
- I could connect my pool light to it, along with garden lights if I wanted to (really anything that runs on electricity)
- etc
- Additionally, it's significantly easier to adjust settings and schedules using automation and software then going out to the pad and fooling with mechanical timers.

Where the InteilliFlo comes into play is being able to customize the RPM settings. I have RPM settings for:
- solar heat
- gas heat
- cleaner
- two speeds for skimmer
- freeze protection
- general filtering
- chlorine generation

And as seasons and filter conditions change throughout the year, I can easily tweak any or all of those RPM settings to account for those changing conditions, all from the comfort of, well, anywhere, day, night, rain, or shine.

Like I said, I'm likely not a typical user, in that I have max'ed the usage I get from automation and my IntelliFlo, but I just wanted to point out that just because you think you have "a simple pool" doesn't mean you wouldn't see a benefit.

The flip side, beyond the upfront cost: one could argue that automation can complicate things for some users, and certainly increases the possibility of maintenance and replacement effort and expenses.

The over-arching point is: buy components with your future system in mind, so that you don't buy something now that isn't going to be a great fit with the system you'll eventually have. These components are too expensive to think "Oh, I'll just swap that out if I ever upgrade."

 

[Jimrahbe]

Liz,

If you do not have a Spa, you do not "need" automation. I have a very simple pool with an automation system and love it, that said, it is like a remote key FOB for your car, or electric windows.. No one needs them, but most people want them.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Liz315]

Liz,

If you do not have a Spa, you do not "need" automation. I have a very simple pool with an automation system and love it, that said, it is like a remote key FOB for your car, or electric windows.. No one needs them, but most people want them.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Agreed, I can’t justify the $3,000 for the intelliflo pump only for automation in the future just for convenience. Now with the cheaper superflo I have an extra $1,700 to play with so maybe it will be an option. I’m just getting prices as I don’t need it but it would be nice.

 

[newdude]

Agreed, I can’t justify the $3,000 for the intelliflo pump

You can't justify their markup. There are plenty of places to call in NJ. Also check the offerup app. There were a bunch of small pool services advertising startups that have next to no overhead. It's a quick install that isn't rocket science. The installer doesn't need to be a Pentair dealer. A traditional plumber is fine. All you need is a receipt proving it was 'professionally installed'

 

[BowserB]

It's all about the money. The investment up front and the monthly or annual savings you get for it. First thing is to see what your electricity costs. That's the bottom line on the bill--the check you write--divided by the kwh you bought. The quoted price per kwh of electricity is not really relevant. Bottom line. For example my bottom line cost is about 10 cents per kwh. Figure the kwh you're using per month now, and how much you'll use with a variable speed pump at, say, an average of one-half of full speed. An earlier post here had a chart. You could work from that with your electric rates and current pump watts and run times. If you have to spend $3,000 and will save $100 per month, that math is pretty easy. In 2.5 years you got your money back. The higher your cost of electricity the faster the payback. And who knows what electricity will cost next year? Consider other benefits too, as they may be worth something to you. My pump runs from 9 to 7 at 1500 rpm. I can hardly hear it from 15 feet away, and with the A/C running, I cannot hear it at all. Also, it seems likely that a VS pump should last longer. Lower speed means less heat and wear.

Of course, if your single speed pump fails, it's truly a no brainer, since the "cost" of variable speed in that case is just the difference in purchase price. Although, as a matter of fact, I think the current law requires a new pool pump of 1.5HP or more to be variable speed, so that's not a no brainer...it's a no choice!