Is a SWG switch worth it?

[mavrick6382]

Hello, I live in Arizona and own a roughly 15K gal plaster (Pebbletec) pool. A handful of years ago I made the switch to using only liquid chlorine for sanitizing. That, along with muriatic acid, are the only chemicals I use. The increase in liquid chlorine prices (now $18 for a 2-gal box at Home Depot), along with the insane frequency with which I have to add chlorine during summer months, has me considering a different solution. I've known of SWG's for quite some time but never really considered it until now. Do the benefits outweigh the risks? Overall my biggest goal is to reduce the amount of time I am spending adding chlorine to the pool. I spend about $800/yr on my pool, with a good % of that being chemicals. I'd love to never have to buy a salt tab or gal of chlorine again.

Here's what I've narrowed them down to:

Benefits
- No need to buy and add chlorine (only need to add salt to the pool 1-2 times per year)
- Chlorine levels stay stable
- A bit gentler on skin and eyes (I have 3 kids under age 10, might be nice)

Risks/Problems
- Expensive up front cost
- Complicated & expensive maintenance (salt cell needs to be replaced every 3-7 years)
- Chemical levels CAN fluctuate (pH rise for example)
- Won't work in cold temps (although not often, pool temp does drop below 60 in winter here)

Would love to get some feedback from SWG users in AZ or a similar climate. Any feedback is appreciated!

PS - Looks like I can get an AutoPilot ChlorSync CS30 for about $1,000. AutoPilot ChlorSync CS30 Electronic Chlorine Generator-CS30-.

 

[newdude]

You can afford a far better model with the cost savings. But here is that models #s in15k gallons.

1.1 lbs per 24 hours
8.8 FC per 24 hours
3670 lifetime FC

$0.272 per FC.

One gallon of 10% bleach is 6.65 FC in 15k gallons. That works out to :

$5 jug is $0.75 per FC. (2.75 X SWG cost)
$6 jug is $0.90 per FC. (3.3 X SWG cost)
$7 jug is $1.05 per FC (3.86X SWG cost)

Splurge on a larger and more robust unit. It will create more lifetime FC, bringing the overall cost down. Not only will it still be a massive savings over bleach, it will be better suited to last in your long harsh AZ seasons.

 

[mknauss]

I live in a similar, though a bit more harsh environment, than you do.
The Benefits are covered.
To Address your Risks
-- you are buying the chlorine up front. As shown, at a low price.
-- I do not see complicated nor expensive maintenance, other than the replacement of the cell. My first cell I replaced at 7 years, and it had not failed, but was acting odd. Otherwise, I test pH and FC normally about twice a week from April to October. I add acid twice a week due to the high TA fill water we have. The SWCG has no real effect on pH but itself.
-- sure, pH rises due to your high TA fill water. If you do not have a softened water for fill water, your CH rises.
-- my cell normally is off from around mid Dec to early Feb. Except this year. Crazy cold. Was off in early Nov and still has not started consistently working. I add bleach once a week or so and if gone for more than a week I float a trichlor tablet. Easy.

I am sure that AutoPilot unit will work fine. Circupool is well regarded here. Assuming you have no automation. You do need to be sure the power is completely removed from the SWCG when the pump is not running.

 

[mavrick6382]

A few additional questions:

1. What size SWG is recommended for my pool size (15Kgal)?
2. Can these types of units be plumbed into my existing system (pump and filter)?

*Note: I do not have any pool automation

 

[mknauss]

I would recommend a 40K unit. You can get by with a 30K unit, as you have a VS pump and can run it a long time at low speeds.

You just plumb the SWCG to be the last item before the water returns to the pool. You will need a timer or some have used a Smart Plug so you can turn the SWCG off when the pump is scheduled to be off. Or just run the VS pump 24/7 and you have no issues.

 

[amoses]

You should always get a larger unit than you need. I have an RJ-45 that I use with a 24 foot round (13,500 gallons) and could have technically been okay with an RJ-30. However, I ran it at about 65% all summer last year (I live in Texas, South of Fort Worth). Now I am not sure the RJ-30 would have been enough actually. If you decide to pull the trigger, definitely buy one bigger than the specs say you need.

For me, it was worth the investment. So, much less hassle. And It will pay for itself soon in Chlorine cost savings. it does seem like I use more Acid however.

 

[pjt]

Complicated & expensive maintenance

If you maintain your water chemistry, there's little to no maintenance needed. Cell replacement takes a few minutes.

Won't work in cold temps

FC demand during the winter is very low. I used a grand total of one gallon of LC this winter.

If you get the AutoPilot, I do have a PoolSync controller for sale.

For Sale: AquaCal AutoPilot PoolSync WiFi Controller $200 BNIB

Brand new in the box. https://www.aquacal.com/poolsync/ https://autopilot.com/product/poolsync-wifi-controller/

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Chuckiechan]

Once you get the hang of it, it's a piece of cake. I also use borates in my pool, also.
Best bet is to dive in and let TFP guide you through set up. Once on target all you really have to do is use pool math to keep your CSI (Calcium Saturation Index) in line... IOW, close to zero as possible - a virtually unobtainable goal, BTW. And also follow the other charts regarding CYA levels and chlorine levels. Once you are a "master of the machine", then maybe go for borates to further stabilize your water relationship with your SWG.
And wait, there's more: I sent in a salt box for a rebuild for ~ $250. So there is that. As far as longevity, there is a great variance. I get like four years. But it beats schlepping chlorine and acid.

 

[mavrick6382]

Overall it seems that the TFP community recommends a SWG. And CircuPool or Pentair IntelliChlor seem to be popular/recommended units. As far as sizing based on my pool size (15K), a 40/45K is a good idea. For CircuPool in particular, any major differences between their models (CORE vs RJ PLUS vs EDGE vs Universal)?

One thing I am gathering from the responses, however, is that there will likely be a need for more MA. I don't necessarily want to spend $1500-$2000 for a unit only to have to trade LC for MA (they are both priced at about $10/gal these days). My water comes straight from the City of PHX with a calcium hardness of 240ppm (I am currently between 700-750), and a Total Alkalinity of 130. How much acid am I likely to need to use monthly? Any ideas or estimates?

 

[Chuckiechan]

I very rarely add chlorine. Once I am dialed in (14k pool) I use very little of either.
First salt, then CYA, then chlorine to spec, then TA. Leave it alone for a few days and adjust according to pool math and the SWG CYA & chlorine chart.
Just don’t over salt. It’s embarrassingly easy to do!

 

[newdude]

don't necessarily want to spend $1500-$2000 for a unit only to have to trade LC for MA (they are both priced at about $10/gal these days).

So you will likely get some PH rise. But. You'll also adjust your parameters to account for SWG ranges and it will help balance the shift.

Many can go a week between adds, and to lower your Ph from 8.2 to 7.6 takes 13 ounces of MA in 15k gallons. That's one gallon in 9.8 weeks if everything goes to plan. You're using a gallon of LC every other day, so that's a fair trade off at $10 per. And you currently have some PH rise so you're already using MA. Your increase may only be a half a gallon (or even less) per 9.8 weeks.

So yes, but also no.

 

[mknauss]

and a Total Alkalinity of 130

That is what drives the pH rise in your pool water. If using liquid chlorine exclusively now, you are adding acid now at least twice a week, give or take, now during the summer. The SWCG will not significantly effect that.

 

[mavrick6382]

All great info folks, appreciate it. According to @Newdude (if all goes to plan), I am looking at only 3 gal of MA for the year!

What should one expect to pay to have one of these systems installed and plumbed in for the first time?

That is what drives the pH rise in your pool water. If using liquid chlorine exclusively now, you are adding acid now at least twice a week, give or take, now during the summer. The SWCG will not significantly effect that.

Good to know. I do use LC exclusively, although about a week ago I switched back to tabs due toe the crazy LC prices.

 

[newdude]

What should one expect to pay to have one of these systems installed and plumbed in for the first time?

I'd plan for double the Amazon price of the system you choose. That'll cover any extras like electric upgrades if needed. It the actual quote comes in at 50% more than Amazon, woohoo.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Down here in Tucson I add acid about once every 7-10 days in the extreme summer heat. I typically wait for the pH to hit 7.9’ish and then I add enough MA to drop the TA by 10ppm. That will drop the pH down into the 7.4 range. I also use borates. It takes about 10 days for the TA to come back up by 10ppm (our fill water has a TA of roughly 110-120ppm). I go through about 6-8 gallons of MA in a summer … $80 worth of acid and no hassle with finding and dosing LC, I’ll take that deal every day of week.

 

[mavrick6382]

So I hired a local company to resurface my pool back in 2017; they did a great job and their trade contractors did excellent work. However, below is the response I got when I asked about getting a SWG installed. Based on some of the other threads I have read, it seems quite common for these pool companies to either not be familiar with SWG or they are against them. Why is that? I had inquired about the Jandy TruClear 11K, fyi.

Hi Justin, hope all is well. We can install salt systems and I can get you a price on the Jandy but not familiar with the SWG system. I know there are a lot of systems on the Internet, but you won’t find a lot of those at pool shops. Salt systems can be nice, but they also require maintenance and if not cleaned often enough will stop working. Most salt systems are usually around $1,500-$1,800 installed and you would need to buy salt. Have you checked your phosphate level in your pool? Phosphates are the number one culprit for eating up chlorine.

 

[mknauss]

Very typical response. Yes, you still must maintain proper water chemistry. If the SWCG is needing 'cleaned', then you are not maintaining proper water chemistry. Phosphates, well, they do not consume chlorine. There are very few instances were phosphates matter. I have no idea what my phosphate level is, could care less.

I would not get a Jandy Truclear unit. Not a very robust system. If you wish to get a Jandy SWCG, get an Aquapure.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

No … algae is the number one killer of chlorine. But, since phosphates are an essential nutrient for algae growth, one could, in theory, connect phosphate levels to algae growth and then algae growth to chlorine demand.

But you know what causes algae growth? Lack of proper chlorine levels!

Do you know what can maintain very constant and consistent chlorine levels? A salt-water chlorine generator.

So their response is typical and typically ignorant. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Jandy unless all of your equipment is Jandy and you’re using their automation. If this is going to be a stand alone installation, then go with CircuPool. They have the best warranties and you can self-install.

You really don’t need to hire a professional for this. If you are even remotely capable of doing simple plumbing work and minor electrical work (no harder than changing out a light switch), then you can install an SWG yourself … and save yourself the HUGE mark up any one will charge you to do it.

 

[mavrick6382]

Thanks all. For CircuPool in particular, any major differences between their models (CORE vs RJ PLUS vs EDGE vs Universal)?

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Thanks all. For CircuPool in particular, any major differences between their models (CORE vs RJ PLUS vs EDGE vs Universal)?

You want to get the model that gives you fine control over the output in % on/off generating time especially if you have a single speed pump. I’m not totally familiar with the entire line up but the underlying chlorine generator cell technology is the same. Perhaps @Texas Splash can offer advice on the different models.