I loved my Intelliph which is 10 months old. I noticed that my Intellichlor IC40 had no lights even though the Intelliph was on. Plugged the IC40 directly into the Easytouch 8 and it worked again. Submitted a warranty ticket and Pentair tech came out and installed a new motherboard for the intelliph. Everything was again working. Then 4 days later, I checked the pH and it was a little high at 7.8. The next day when I had more time, I was going to adjust intelliph output. Before I did that I checked pH again and it was 7.0 or lower (Taylor test kit only goes to 7.0). I immediately went to the equipment pad and saw the the Intelliph tank was completely empty. It was approximately half full the previous day. I couldn't find any posts on TFP regarding this subject, but did find several cases on the internet with apparently no solution. I am scared to death to turn the Intelliph back on again. I called Pentair and the tech believed me, but had no resolution other than to send out the warranty tech again. Any information would be appreciated.
Intelliph Emptied Entire Tank of Acid
- Thread starter LantanaTX
- Start date
I don't know anything about that type of equipment, but. Wow! Wonder what the PH really is?
No Swimming sign up?
No Swimming sign up?
I had the same thing happen with my Hayward Sense & Dispense. I disabled it after and it’s been that way for 2 years, big waste of money. Funny thing is I only add Acid like maybe once a month if that.
Salty
Salty
I don't have any insight to the malfunction, but check your TA to make sure it hasn't crashed.
Hi LantanaTX
Uh oh.... Mine is about the same age. No problems as of yet so I have no additional info that can help you.
I am certainly watching this thread to see what other information is posted.
Please keep us other IntellipH users informed.
Thanks for posting....
r..
Uh oh.... Mine is about the same age. No problems as of yet so I have no additional info that can help you.
I am certainly watching this thread to see what other information is posted.
Please keep us other IntellipH users informed.
Thanks for posting....
r..
LantanaTX
I've been thinking about this a bit and I am only theorizing here. If I'm off base, I'm sure someone will correct me.
1. Since the IntellipH controller is connected to the IntelliChlor transformer for power and if the IntelliChlor transformer is wired correctly to the load side of the pump relay, then there is no way for the controller to obtain the necessary power to actuate the peristaltic pump unless the pump relay is energized.
2. In otherwords. The IntellpH controller can only work if the pump relay is on. The pump relay has to be on which also means that the IntelliChlor is on provided everything is wired correctly of course. I assume that is the case since you have had no problems until now.
3. Given the fact that the pump relay has to be on, that would mean only two things.
Anyway, that's all I got. Please let us know how this gets resolved.
Thanks and best of luck with this.
r.
I've been thinking about this a bit and I am only theorizing here. If I'm off base, I'm sure someone will correct me.
1. Since the IntellipH controller is connected to the IntelliChlor transformer for power and if the IntelliChlor transformer is wired correctly to the load side of the pump relay, then there is no way for the controller to obtain the necessary power to actuate the peristaltic pump unless the pump relay is energized.
2. In otherwords. The IntellpH controller can only work if the pump relay is on. The pump relay has to be on which also means that the IntelliChlor is on provided everything is wired correctly of course. I assume that is the case since you have had no problems until now.
3. Given the fact that the pump relay has to be on, that would mean only two things.
a) The logic "something or other" on the controller board is defective and is sending a signal to continuously dose versus dosing once an hour like it should, while the pump relay is energized.
b) The EasyTouch is energizing the pump relay more than it should by way of an errant schedule? Have you checked your schedules just to make sure something didn't get out of wack there?
Anyway, that's all I got. Please let us know how this gets resolved.
Thanks and best of luck with this.
r.
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So after calling Pentair tech support they sent out the warranty company. They called me ahead of time and I went through the whole story, but I added that interestingly my IC40 was still producing chlorine, but almost at the same time it quit reporting a salt concentration. Today the warranty company for Pentair came out and they replaced my entire peristaltic pump on my Intelliph with a different pump. Now the peristaltic pump says Shurflow and it has 4 screws not a lever to replace the surgical tubing and/or the wheel. The Shurflow wheel appears to have only two rollers not three like the original. He also replaced my flow switch on my IC40 and said that Pentair had a bunch of poorly made flow switches and that it was a very common issue. I will be monitoring things closely since no one could seem to ever confirm or deny that they have had an Intelliph dump an entire tank of acid. Thanks to everyone for responding. I am curious if anyone has an older Intelliph if they put the old style pump (not the newer Stenner sourced on my Intelliph)? My tubing connectors are now white (not black) and the pump now has the connections pointing sideways as opposed to down.
Calling @bdavis466..
Brian,
Does it sound like the OP had the old ipH pump and now has the new style of pump, or does this sound like there may be a 3rd pump???
Thanks for any input,
Jim R.
Brian,
Does it sound like the OP had the old ipH pump and now has the new style of pump, or does this sound like there may be a 3rd pump???
Thanks for any input,
Jim R.
- Jul 21, 2013
- 53,100
- Pool Size
- 35000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
It actually sounds like they put the older pump head on. The newer one is a stenner style, the shurflo was the original.
Either way, the pump head isn't the issue and the controller should be replaced.
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- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Thanks for the heads up Allen. Some random thoughts...
No issues here with my IC40/ipH setup. I posted a concern for this very scenario when I was first considering an ipH. I was told by someone here that I did not have to worry about messing up my pool should that ever happen, as dumping the entire contents of the tank into the pool would not greatly impact my plaster. The pool would quickly recover, the water would rebalance, and so not to worry. Further, as per Pentair ipH instructions, I dilute my 31% acid 1:1 with water, which means there's never more than about 1.5 gallons of acid in the tank at any given point. Not enough to be much of a concern should the system malfunction. So I quit worrying about this.
My setup needs the main pump to be on about 8 hours a day in order to dispense enough chlorine and acid and solar heat, so even if my pump schedule malfunctioned, it would have to run for days to empty the ipH tank, and I'd hear that, so that's another non-concern for me. Your main pump schedule is something to check, for sure, but even if it was running for days non-stop, I doubt that alone would empty an ipH.
If wired correctly, the ipH can't pump while the filter pump is off, just as the IC40 can't produce. And the ipH doesn't dispense while the IC40 is producing, the ipH controller turns off the IC40 just before it dispenses. It's the ipH controller that runs the show to make all that happen, which leads me to believe there was a malfunction in the ipH controller, because the ipH is not controlled in any way by the EasyTouch (except for main power). The EasyTouch does not schedule or initiate the acid dispensing. Did they replace your ipH controller? I'd expect that to occur if this happened to me. I'm not sure why they replaced the pump. The acid pump gets its power from the ipH controller, so I don't see how a malfunctioning acid pump could empty the tank unless the controller was also malfunctioning.
For what it's worth, my current IC40 is running fine with the "no salt" issue. Pentair replaced my faulty IC40 with a new model, but I never installed it (and they never asked for the faulty one back). I figured that as long as the "broken" one was making chlorine, I'd run it until it dies, and have the replacement as a backup for when it does. Point being, the well-known "no salt" fault doesn't appear to affect the operation of the IC40 or the ipH. So I don't imagine that replacing the IC40 switch would resolve this issue. In fact, I recall some here with the "no salt" problem replaced their switches and that didn't resolve the "no salt" problem. I don't think we ever collectively figured out exactly what causes that issue, but I don't think that has anything to do with your acid tank issue. The ipH controller monitors the IC40 flow switch, and won't dispense without flow (or isn't supposed to). Maybe the switch was reporting flow when there was none? That sounds like a long shot. That still doesn't explain why the tank emptied, as even if the flow was 24/7, the ipH controller is only supposed to dispense a little at a time. Sounds like your warranty guy is shooting in the dark.
Regarding the "new" pump... I can't say if there is a third pump. Pentair should know, call their tech support and ask (though that would be a somewhat obscure question for them, so they may or may not actually have the answer). Is there a part number you can see? If that number matches the older style pump, then that would at least tell you if you have an old one or not. I would not be the least surprised to learn a local pool repair company used some part that they've had stuffed in the back of the shop for years. (Which is how I ended up with a pool light that only lasted a few months, as I was sold an old one that didn't have the newer copper heat sync.) Pool guys... sheesh.
I would follow up on this until you're assured you have the newer pump, as the older one was replaced for a reason (though I can't now recall what that reason is). Ride Pentair and the repairman until you get the newest pump and a new ipH controller. Chalk this up as a fluke, and keep an eye on the ipH moving forward. Checking the tank contents should be a daily chore, along with spot checking the filter gauge, the leaf baskets, the water level, etc. The problem with automation is that it will eventually fail, so you need to treat every day as the day it might happen...
Even if this was a known issue (which it is not, as far as I know), I wouldn't stop using my ipH. It's way to convenient.
No issues here with my IC40/ipH setup. I posted a concern for this very scenario when I was first considering an ipH. I was told by someone here that I did not have to worry about messing up my pool should that ever happen, as dumping the entire contents of the tank into the pool would not greatly impact my plaster. The pool would quickly recover, the water would rebalance, and so not to worry. Further, as per Pentair ipH instructions, I dilute my 31% acid 1:1 with water, which means there's never more than about 1.5 gallons of acid in the tank at any given point. Not enough to be much of a concern should the system malfunction. So I quit worrying about this.
My setup needs the main pump to be on about 8 hours a day in order to dispense enough chlorine and acid and solar heat, so even if my pump schedule malfunctioned, it would have to run for days to empty the ipH tank, and I'd hear that, so that's another non-concern for me. Your main pump schedule is something to check, for sure, but even if it was running for days non-stop, I doubt that alone would empty an ipH.
If wired correctly, the ipH can't pump while the filter pump is off, just as the IC40 can't produce. And the ipH doesn't dispense while the IC40 is producing, the ipH controller turns off the IC40 just before it dispenses. It's the ipH controller that runs the show to make all that happen, which leads me to believe there was a malfunction in the ipH controller, because the ipH is not controlled in any way by the EasyTouch (except for main power). The EasyTouch does not schedule or initiate the acid dispensing. Did they replace your ipH controller? I'd expect that to occur if this happened to me. I'm not sure why they replaced the pump. The acid pump gets its power from the ipH controller, so I don't see how a malfunctioning acid pump could empty the tank unless the controller was also malfunctioning.
For what it's worth, my current IC40 is running fine with the "no salt" issue. Pentair replaced my faulty IC40 with a new model, but I never installed it (and they never asked for the faulty one back). I figured that as long as the "broken" one was making chlorine, I'd run it until it dies, and have the replacement as a backup for when it does. Point being, the well-known "no salt" fault doesn't appear to affect the operation of the IC40 or the ipH. So I don't imagine that replacing the IC40 switch would resolve this issue. In fact, I recall some here with the "no salt" problem replaced their switches and that didn't resolve the "no salt" problem. I don't think we ever collectively figured out exactly what causes that issue, but I don't think that has anything to do with your acid tank issue. The ipH controller monitors the IC40 flow switch, and won't dispense without flow (or isn't supposed to). Maybe the switch was reporting flow when there was none? That sounds like a long shot. That still doesn't explain why the tank emptied, as even if the flow was 24/7, the ipH controller is only supposed to dispense a little at a time. Sounds like your warranty guy is shooting in the dark.
Regarding the "new" pump... I can't say if there is a third pump. Pentair should know, call their tech support and ask (though that would be a somewhat obscure question for them, so they may or may not actually have the answer). Is there a part number you can see? If that number matches the older style pump, then that would at least tell you if you have an old one or not. I would not be the least surprised to learn a local pool repair company used some part that they've had stuffed in the back of the shop for years. (Which is how I ended up with a pool light that only lasted a few months, as I was sold an old one that didn't have the newer copper heat sync.) Pool guys... sheesh.
I would follow up on this until you're assured you have the newer pump, as the older one was replaced for a reason (though I can't now recall what that reason is). Ride Pentair and the repairman until you get the newest pump and a new ipH controller. Chalk this up as a fluke, and keep an eye on the ipH moving forward. Checking the tank contents should be a daily chore, along with spot checking the filter gauge, the leaf baskets, the water level, etc. The problem with automation is that it will eventually fail, so you need to treat every day as the day it might happen...
Even if this was a known issue (which it is not, as far as I know), I wouldn't stop using my ipH. It's way to convenient.
Thank you to all for your input.
Pentair tech came out originally, prior to the acid tank dump and replaced the Intelliph mother board because my IC40 stopped running when plugged into the Intelliph, but ran just fine with plugged directly into my Easy Touch. The acid tank dump happened about 4 days after the mother board was replaced.
I spent the the last two days monitoring my system closely. I have determined that the replacement peristaltic pump is indeed the old circa 2014 Shurflo pump. I made the request to Pentair to get me the new correct Stenner pump. I think the reason I ended up with the old one circa 2014 is because there is not a part number for the entire Stenner motor and pump head, but there is for the circa 2014. I am not sure why they wanted to replace the motor and pump head. I noted that two of the three rollers had ceased on the pump head and the thought was that maybe somehow that was the problem according the Pentair tech.
I have now monitored the unit frequently and would appreciate information on what is actually dispensed by the Intelliph. I have set an hourly alarm so I could go look to see what the Intelliph is actually doing. Initially, I thought that manually adding acid via the Intelliph would run/add whatever percent I had selected. I now know that it always adds 60 seconds worth which is suppose to be approximately 4 ounces of the 1/1 tank mixture. This sounds like what should be the 100% setting according the chart in the manual. This seems close to what the chart says in the Intelliph manual for 100% = "2.13 ounces" which would be roughly the amount of acid in a 1/1 dilution of 4 ounces.
Here is what I see according to the Intelliph screen:
Manual addition via Intelliph pump runs for 60 seconds and dispensed 3.80 ounces according to screen.
Intelliph set to 50% pump runs for 16 seconds (screen says nothing about amount dispensed)
Intelliph set to 100% pump runs for 32 seconds (screen says nothing about amount dispensed).
Something just doesn't add up. The version of software on my screen appears to be the most recent V2.11. I am thinking that the software version is not completely compatible with the older Shurflo pump?
Pentair tech came out originally, prior to the acid tank dump and replaced the Intelliph mother board because my IC40 stopped running when plugged into the Intelliph, but ran just fine with plugged directly into my Easy Touch. The acid tank dump happened about 4 days after the mother board was replaced.
I spent the the last two days monitoring my system closely. I have determined that the replacement peristaltic pump is indeed the old circa 2014 Shurflo pump. I made the request to Pentair to get me the new correct Stenner pump. I think the reason I ended up with the old one circa 2014 is because there is not a part number for the entire Stenner motor and pump head, but there is for the circa 2014. I am not sure why they wanted to replace the motor and pump head. I noted that two of the three rollers had ceased on the pump head and the thought was that maybe somehow that was the problem according the Pentair tech.
I have now monitored the unit frequently and would appreciate information on what is actually dispensed by the Intelliph. I have set an hourly alarm so I could go look to see what the Intelliph is actually doing. Initially, I thought that manually adding acid via the Intelliph would run/add whatever percent I had selected. I now know that it always adds 60 seconds worth which is suppose to be approximately 4 ounces of the 1/1 tank mixture. This sounds like what should be the 100% setting according the chart in the manual. This seems close to what the chart says in the Intelliph manual for 100% = "2.13 ounces" which would be roughly the amount of acid in a 1/1 dilution of 4 ounces.
Here is what I see according to the Intelliph screen:
Manual addition via Intelliph pump runs for 60 seconds and dispensed 3.80 ounces according to screen.
Intelliph set to 50% pump runs for 16 seconds (screen says nothing about amount dispensed)
Intelliph set to 100% pump runs for 32 seconds (screen says nothing about amount dispensed).
Something just doesn't add up. The version of software on my screen appears to be the most recent V2.11. I am thinking that the software version is not completely compatible with the older Shurflo pump?
The run times are correct... the ItellipH isn't all that intelligent and that's why many of us have dumped the controller altogether. The unit doesn't actually know how much it dispensed but just assumed based on run time. Since your head was changed, that volume is no longer correct.
If he changed the pump head he would have also had to have changed the motor. I wouldn't let them keep that unit on there because that pump head does not last much more than a year and the entire head must be replaced.
There was an issue where the ICs were having trouble running when connected to the intelliph. It seems these issues haven't been completely resolved.
If he changed the pump head he would have also had to have changed the motor. I wouldn't let them keep that unit on there because that pump head does not last much more than a year and the entire head must be replaced.
There was an issue where the ICs were having trouble running when connected to the intelliph. It seems these issues haven't been completely resolved.
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So I guess my solution is to switch to the Intellichem? Looks like then I wouldn't have to really worry. Just not sure about the maintenance on the pH and ORP sensors?
That unit has its issues aside from ORP and I wouldn't waste the money.
See if you can get your IPH working properly and if not then you may want to bypass the controller.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I looked at IntelliChem and decided against it. I agree, the IpH is very rudimentary. And I might someday get rid of the controller so that I can have it work in the winter (when the IC doesn't), but that's a topic for another day. It doesn't really matter what the IpH is doing or when, just balance its setting with your pump's runtime to get the pH you desire. A case of "the end justify the means!" Once you figure out the pump runtime and IpH setting, the rest doesn't matter, right? Now that I have mine working like I want, I'm grateful I'm not dealing with an ORP setup, and even more Pentair electronics. Less is more...
We had our entire acid tank dump into our pool a few months ago. We noticed the acid pump running continuously, went to check, saw the acid tank empty. The only way to stop the pump was to cut the power off to the entire Intellichem system at the breaker. No settings at the Intellichem panel we’re able to stop it. Pentair had no explanation. I have since come across a post that described a glitch with Stenner pumps, at least for one model, that stuck the pump in the “on” position if power was cut while dispensing. The “on” status could only be reversed when the pump received an “off” signal, which could only happen at the next interval of acid pumping. In other words, the on/off s come in pairs, and the pump has to get an “off” which only happens after another “on”, after the defined mixing interval.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 11,907
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
I don't know anything about Stenner pumps, but I'm pretty sure the pump on an iPh can't dump acid without power to it. You can see that for yourself just by looking at the innards of the pump mechanism. It's a rubber tube with three rollers that run over the tube. The rollers pinch the tube and sort of push the acid along. As soon as power is off, the rollers stop moving, stop pushing, but they don't stop pinching. One or two of the rollers are always pinching the tube closed, with or without power, so as soon as they stop moving, the acid cannot flow through the tube. And the pump is dumb, it only dispenses when power is being supplied to it, and it's the iPh controller that is turning on-off the pump's power. There is no on signal and then off signal being fed to the pump. And Pentair automation systems do not send on-off signals to the iPh controller. The iPh runs independently, so only the controller powers the pump. Power = pumping acid, no power = no pumping (and because of the rollers, no flow of acid at all). The only way LantanaTX's iPh could have emptied was if the iPh controller was providing continuous power to the iPh. And the controller is designed to only provide power for a few seconds at a time (less than a minute, I believe). Which, as I said before, points to a controller malfunction, not a pump malfunction.
Dirk,
Thanks for that analysis. I once replaced the tube in those rollers, so see what you mean; it can't just leak out. The only way that acid tank was emptied is that the Intellichem unit that powers the pump must have been sending continuous power. And in fact it was, kept running even well after tank was empty, and was only stopped by cutting power to all our pool equipment.
Thanks for that analysis. I once replaced the tube in those rollers, so see what you mean; it can't just leak out. The only way that acid tank was emptied is that the Intellichem unit that powers the pump must have been sending continuous power. And in fact it was, kept running even well after tank was empty, and was only stopped by cutting power to all our pool equipment.