IntelliPh Board Burned

[cjisndenial]

My IntelliPh recently stopped working. Last month, I noticed that the pump was making a rough noise when running. Inspection revealed a very worn and hardened pump tube. Replaced the tube and the system went back to sounding normal while pumping.

Checked the system last night, and the screen for the IntelliPh wasn't on. No red LED either. Power was passing through the IntelliPh controller just fine though, as my IntelliChlor was running OK and communicating with automation.

I opened up the IntelliPh controller and discovered a board burned in 3 places. I've attached the picture here. This feels similar to a previous post by @Turbo1Ton. But where he had burned pins, I have numerous components on the board burned out. And similar to that post, the fuse in the IntelliChlor power center never popped.

Anyone know what is going on here!?!? Is Pentair just pumping out bad boards? Of course the laughable warranty is over.

My worst fear is that the hardened tube caused the motor windings to burn. If the motor is drawing too much current, and the board doesn't have appropriate protection, I'll just burn the replacement. Anyone know how to check the motor for spec?

@Dirk any thoughts?

Thanks all!

 

[JamesW]

Is this the motor?

Can you show the motor label?

 

[JamesW]

Is the pump Stenner or ShurFlo?

 

[JamesW]

You need to know the motor voltage and amperage.

In this example, the motor is 24 volts DC and the power is about (120 x 0.17) = 20.4 watts.

At 24 volts, the amperage should be about (20.4/24) = 0.85 amps.

You can power the motor and check the amp draw.

You can put a fuse inline with the power to limit the maximum current.

 

[Dirk]

My IntelliPh recently stopped working. Last month, I noticed that the pump was making a rough noise when running. Inspection revealed a very worn and hardened pump tube. Replaced the tube and the system went back to sounding normal while pumping.

Checked the system last night, and the screen for the IntelliPh wasn't on. No red LED either. Power was passing through the IntelliPh controller just fine though, as my IntelliChlor was running OK and communicating with automation.

I opened up the IntelliPh controller and discovered a board burned in 3 places. I've attached the picture here. This feels similar to a previous post by @Turbo1Ton. But where he had burned pins, I have numerous components on the board burned out. And similar to that post, the fuse in the IntelliChlor power center never popped.

Anyone know what is going on here!?!? Is Pentair just pumping out bad boards? Of course the laughable warranty is over.

My worst fear is that the hardened tube caused the motor windings to burn. If the motor is drawing too much current, and the board doesn't have appropriate protection, I'll just burn the replacement. Anyone know how to check the motor for spec?

@Dirk any thoughts?

Thanks all!

View attachment 460760

In your first posted image:

- the smaller circle indicates a burned pin. We know what causes that, and we know how to fix it. If you end up replacing the board, we'll walking you through the preemptive fix for that, to minimize the possibility of that happening again.

- the largest circle indicates some burned out components that we've also seen before. I think those are some resistors and a chip.

- the medium-sized circle indicates a burned chip, that we (or at least I) haven't seen before.

Let's see if @ogdento can offer some insight.

I let my pump tube go too long between replacement, and it was very hard. While that didn't affect my motor or my IpH board, I can definitely see how it could, though I'm not sure it would do so in the way yours was affected. The parts in the large circle have something to do with the data bus, not the pump circuit. I don't know what the chip in the medium circle does.

The power to the IntelliChlor passes directly through the IpH board. It would be unaffected by the burned components in the larger circles. But it would, and will eventually, be affected by what is going on in the smaller circle. So that's on borrowed time.

I don't see you fixing that board, I think a new one will be needed. But you can do the fix I mentioned above to keep that white connector from doing that again. Maybe ogdento can suggest what might have caused the other failures, and what to test to see if the pump motor is OK. James has given you some good ideas, too. And testing or replacing the pump might be some things to consider. But, again, I'm gunna guess that's not what burned your board.

Did you have any energy spikes recently? Lightening? Any other electrical events?

 

[Dirk]

I should mention, there are a few ways to run an IntellipH without using its controller. Some here do that as a permanent fix to the IpH's flakey circuit board. I run it that way in the winter, when it would otherwise stop working due to cold water. If you want to abandon the controller altogether, we can explore ways you might be able to do so.

 

[Dirk]

Here's my thread that relates to some of what you have going on, and the fixes.

Hacking IntellipH to work in cold water

As Pentair IntellipH (IpH) automatic acid dosing system owners know, the IpH depends on a Pentair IntellliChlor (IC) saltwater chlorine generator. The IpH uses the IC's power supply, and monitors its flow switch, so that it won't dispense acid if the IC is reporting low flow. Unfortunately, it...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

Here's another thread worth noting. Around post #38 I provided some illustrations about a fix for the connector burn. In my thread above, I removed the connector and soldered wires directly to the board. In the following thread is a less drastic, somewhat easier fix. They both accomplish the same thing, which is to provide an alternate path for all the current the IntelliChlor is pulling.

IC60 & IntelliPH no longer working (5 months old) - Input?

New pool built late last year and being using the IC60 and IntelliPH wired in series for a month .... noticed today while testing FC we were dropped below 3.. Went to check out IC60 cell... no lights on... checked out IntelliPH and screen is blank Checked Breaker and not tripped Turned relay...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

This thread describes how @Lake Placid performed one of our proposed fixes, and confirmed it works.

Another IPH burned connection issue

Roughly two years ago I bought a used but in good condition IPH to manage ph with my IC40. Everything worked well until this year when the IC40 started randomly power cycling, running through the startup procedure then shutting off and starting the same loop. In troubleshooting I noted when...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[ogdento]

hey guys, the 44-pin chip labelled u3 in the top right red circle is the micro-controller... i can't tell if other parts blew up and just burned "onto it", or if the micro-controller itself is burned. but i tend to agree with Dirk that the board is toast if the micro is okay you might be able to cobble the board back together but it would take some effort - probably not worth it!

 

[Dirk]

hey guys, the 44-pin chip labelled u3 in the top right red circle is the micro-controller... i can't tell if other parts blew up and just burned "onto it", or if the micro-controller itself is burned. but i tend to agree with Dirk that the board is toast if the micro is okay you might be able to cobble the board back together but it would take some effort - probably not worth it!

OG, do you think this chip failure had anything to do with an over-current event caused by the IntellipH pump motor working too hard, or otherwise failing? And do you know how to test the motor to see if it is OK or not? The OP wants to make sure the motor is OK before buying a new board, because he wouldn't want to have his motor blow up another board if that was why the first board melted.

James has given him some things to try? Anything else?

 

[JamesW]

I would put a 1 amp fuse inline and then connect power and measure the amperage.

If the fuse blows immediately, go to a 1.5 amp or a 2 amp fuse, but no bigger.

If the two amp fuse blows, there is likely a problem with the motor.

You can power the motor separately with a different power supply and no fuse to see how much current over 2 amps is being drawn.

 

[Dirk]

I would put a 1 amp fuse inline and then connect power and measure the amperage.

If the fuse blows immediately, go to a 1.5 amp or a 2 amp fuse, but no bigger.

If the two amp fuse blows, there is likely a problem with the motor.

You can power the motor separately with a different power supply and no fuse to see how much current over 2 amps is being drawn.

Me likey. Much better than testing the motor with a $300 replacement circuit board!! I'd do the last idea first (using a different power supply). Here's one on sale for 12 bucks:

https://www.amazon.com/SHNITPWR-Converter-Transformer-100-240V-5-5x2-5mm/dp/B07SDRDV5B/

If you decide to forgo the board replacement, you could use this power supply to run the pump for a minute or two each day using a digital timer or perhaps your IntelliConnect (I don't know the IntelliConnect, but we can figure out if it can do that or not.)

 

[JamesW]

Once the normal amp draw is known and the motor is confirmed to be good, I would install a fuse inline with the motor to help prevent further overcurrent problems.

Check the motor label for the amp draw and/or power draw specifications or contact the manufacturer to inquire about the normal amp and power draw specifications.

 

[JamesW]

You might be able to use the separate power supply to power the motor all the time to remove it from the circuit board altogether.

If you get a 24 Volt DC coil DPST (Double Pole Single Throw) relay, the motor output can just power the relay coil and that will engage the relay so that the motor is powered by the separate power supply.

 

[Flying Tivo]

This is the way i dealt with it.

IntelliPh control box down.

Control box not working, read up on @bdavis466 post about wiring through a relay. I understand the wiring, but my question is: Can i get the 26VDC from the SWG control board (this is where the PH gets its original power from)on the extra connector of my ET8 with integrated SWG transformer? Dont...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Dirk]

You might be able to use the separate power supply to power the motor all the time to remove it from the circuit board altogether.

If you get a 24 Volt DC coil DPST (Double Pole Single Throw) relay, the motor output can just power the relay coil and that will engage the relay so that the motor is powered by the separate power supply.

This is the way i dealt with it.

IntelliPh control box down.

Control box not working, read up on @bdavis466 post about wiring through a relay. I understand the wiring, but my question is: Can i get the 26VDC from the SWG control board (this is where the PH gets its original power from)on the extra connector of my ET8 with integrated SWG transformer? Dont...

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, that's what I was getting at when I mentioned he could move on without his burned board, without replacing it. But of the two suggestions, @JamesW and @Flying Tivo, will they work with an IntelliConnect? He doesn't have EasyTouch or IntelliCenter, etc. I don't know IntelliConnect...

Edit: from an Internet blurb: "It also enables the operation of almost any two conventional, on/off products, like lights and single-speed pumps." So if he's not using the on-off circuits already, then maybe he can go that route.

 

[Flying Tivo]

Edit: from an Internet blurb: "It also enables the operation of almost any two conventional, on/off products, like lights and single-speed pumps." So if he's not using the on-off circuits already, then maybe he can go that route.

Intelliconnect i dont know, but as you say a simple on/off and maybe a use of a relay if voltage not appropriate with a simple power supply as someone mentioned earlier will work just fine.
As an extra precaution you can lube your santoprene tube. That is what i do.

New IntelliPH won't rotate

I also dilute, but close the container and shake the container until mixed. No way to spill it. Which container? The IpH tank? Mine is bolted to my equipment pad, so it doesn't budge...

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[cjisndenial]

Wow you guys! I'm humbled by all the responses and helpful ideas! Sorry I couldn't participate during the week, as I've been traveling for work.

I am not sure on the make of the pump. It has no markings. But the motor is marked. Looks like it's from a custom engineering firm named REX that makes motors to client spec. Quick check of their site makes me think I have to email them to get the specs on this motor

I'm pretty sure I have a 24v transformer laying around that I can wire up to test the motor draw. Will do. I did a simple continuity test and reliably showed 7.5ohm no matter the position of the spindle. So at least the motor isn't burned open. And while the casing of the motor shows a bit of rust (there's no freaking gasket in the enclosure), the windings I can see look shiny and new.

Need to read more on the posts @Dirk shared. The SWG drawing enough current to burn the pin is ridiculous. If it really needs that draw, the connector for the power+bus tap should be rated to handle it. Very lame. Temporarily not an issue as I plugged the IC40 directly into the IC power center, disconnecting the iPH. But given this is a parallel DC circuit tap, other than the burned pin, why would this affect the board? The pin doesn't seem to be completely burned, so I don't think we've had arcing.

@Dirk I'm not terribly worried about running the iPH when the IC40 isn't running. I'm confident that my runaway PH is from the IC40 operation. I agree with you that the iPH turning off the IC40 when dispensing is a good thing. And I close my pool for the winter with a cover because my pool is surrounded by trees and gets fairly cold here in middle TN. Long-winded way of saying I would prefer to figure out the issue and then replace the board.

I'm not opposed to a relay and separate transformer to run the motor if indeed the motor turns out to have been the issue. If not, I'm not sure what value that will give me.

There were questions about the chips that burned on the board. I had to go look again. The board and enclosure are perfectly clean. Those chips are so burned that the ceramic has turned to dust. You don't see anything burned on. You see the ceramic burning away as powder!

Last thought from reading your gracious posts... my iConnect loves to throw temporal communication errors. It complains there's been a communication error with the IC40, sometimes hours between complaints, sometimes days. This predates the iPH, and didn't change with its addition. Pentair support was useless as usual. I have checked the RS-232 connections for the pump, IC40, IC power center and iConnect many times, and they always seemed fine with nominal voltage. Newer updates to the Pentair Home app dismiss this error as soon as communication is restored, and don't trigger a push notification if that restoration is fast. This leads me to believe Pentair knows about the issue and "hacked out" the annoying alerts. But maybe there is something to them, and the IC40 isn't electrically sound. I have another IC40 laying around with a bad flow switch. Maybe I'll swap them to see if that makes the issue go away. Not a smoking gun but maybe another clue.

I'm going to test current draws on the IC40 and iPH motor tomorrow, then report back.

 

[Dirk]

I'm pretty sure I have a 24v transformer laying around that I can wire up to test the motor draw.

That motor is DC. Just be sure your power supply is, too.

Need to read more on the posts @Dirk shared. The SWG drawing enough current to burn the pin is ridiculous. If it really needs that draw, the connector for the power+bus tap should be rated to handle it. Very lame. Temporarily not an issue as I plugged the IC40 directly into the IC power center, disconnecting the iPH. But given this is a parallel DC circuit tap, other than the burned pin, why would this affect the board? The pin doesn't seem to be completely burned, so I don't think we've had arcing.

Oh, it's worse than that. Pentair has known about this issue for years. You'll see how simple the fix is, they just don't address it. And I agree, I think you probably had two things going on. The connector issue hadn't really happened yet, but looks to be well on its way. The chips burning was probably something else, unrelated.

@Dirk I'm not terribly worried about running the iPH when the IC40 isn't running. I'm confident that my runaway PH is from the IC40 operation. I agree with you that the iPH turning off the IC40 when dispensing is a good thing. And I close my pool for the winter with a cover because my pool is surrounded by trees and gets fairly cold here in middle TN. Long-winded way of saying I would prefer to figure out the issue and then replace the board.

There are different schools of thought on that (SWGs pushing pH), but the reality is it doesn't matter. Your pH is what it is, and changes when it changes, and you dose accordingly. My pool drinks acid year-round, so I found a solution that works for my pool in my climate. You'll do the same.

I'm not opposed to a relay and separate transformer to run the motor if indeed the motor turns out to have been the issue. If not, I'm not sure what value that will give me.

It eliminates the IpH controller, so less to go wrong, I guess. But I like the controller and all the niceties it provides, so I found a way to keep it working. Personal preference. Others who have ditched it are equally happy with that solution.

Last thought from reading your gracious posts... my iConnect loves to throw temporal communication errors. It complains there's been a communication error with the IC40, sometimes hours between complaints, sometimes days.

I had a similar error from my EasyTouch/IntelliChlor just this morning. I've seen if a few times. Who knows (or rather, I don't). I've got bigger fish to fry with my pool to-do list! Whaddayagunnado? But here's what I will get around to someday...

We think the connector burn might have something to do with corrosion building up on the pins. It's certainly possible. That would increase resistance and the problem grows from there. If that's true, the other pins, through which the communication signals travel, could also be subject to this same problem. But instead of burning up (the COMM buss doesn't carry that kind of current), maybe it just loses comm's once in a while? Just a theory. But the same possible solution could work for all the pins, and that is to coat them with a good protective conductive grease, that both protects the pins and enhances conductivity. I haven't done so myself, but plan to before long. Can't hurt. I'll coat the pins inside my IpH, but also the pins that connect to my automation controller. Any connection, really, that is subject to the "harsh environment" of a pool equipment pad: salty, acidic air drifting around during both extreme hot and cold weather.