Intellichlor and automation

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miles267

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Sep 5, 2016
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Arkansas
First time pool owner. Am looking to build a relatively simple, approx. 15K gal. in-ground pool. Trying to determine what costs are worthwhile. Will have a Polaris auto cleaner with booster pump, IntelliFlo VS pump, pool lights, and Clean and Clear 420 cartridge filter. No spa or water features.

Chlorination - Am torn between a Pentair Rainbow chlorination system ($150) or the IntelliChlor IC40 ($2K) option. Is SWG a no brainer?

Automation - PB quoting $4,500ish for IntelliTouch I5 unit and hard wired wall controller. PB prefers IT over EasyTouch for ease of programming and versatility to operate other equipment. Is automation a must-have when using an IC40 SWG? Could we save $4,500 by eliminating automation and get a heater/cooler instead? Or does automation offer other benefits am not aware of?

Thanks for guidance.
 
Re: Selecting the right size Intellichlor

Miles,

A lot of people here have Salt Water pools, including me. For most of us, you'd have to pry that SWG from my cold, dead hands, before I'd ever go back to a non-SWG pool. :)

No one here recommends using a 3" tab chlorine system, like the Rainbow. In fact, it is because of problems with this type of system that most people find their way to this TFP site.

You do not need an automation system... Period! But there are some advantages.. but first.. I find your PB's reason for wanting an IT in place of the EasyTouch to be.. well, Bull Stuff. Here is why I have the EasyTouch:

1. I like having one central enclosure. It looks neat and tidy.
2. The enclosure is also the power center, so all your circuit breakers are inside.
3. The EasyTouch controls the Intelliflo via a serial cable, so no standing upside down, on top of your equipment to program or turn a feature on or off.
4. The Easytouch has an internal Power Supply for the SWG.
5. The SWG can be operated and adjusted on the EasyTouch and not from the SWG itself.
6. The EasyTouch can be programmed to start and stop your Cleaner (I suggest you dump this old fashioned cleaner/booster pump and go with a Robot.. check your calendar, it is 2016, not 1950)
7. The EasyTouch can control valves, not something you will need in your present setup.
8. The EasyTouch controls your SWG so that it will not turn on if your pump is not running. (This is a required safety feature)
9. The EasyTouch can control three other devices with relays. One would be used for your booster pump if you decide to not be brought into the light.. :cool:
10. The EasyTouch can control your landscape lighting if wanted in the future.
11. The Easytouch controls your pool light.
12. And best of all, with the addition of ScreenLogic2, you can control everything from your PC or phone. I absolutely love this feature!!!
13. If you added a heater in the future, the EasyTouch would control that.

I suspect there is more that I have forgotten, but I have yet to talk with anyone that has automation that would take it out.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
+1 on the robot. I got the Polaris and booster pump before I knew any better. The polaris booster + pool pump uses around 2500 watts a robot is 200 watts at most. Assuming $0.18 kwh and an hour run time per day that is $0.45 per day vs less than $0.04. $164 a year vs $14.60.
 
I have a suction side cleaner and it's been under-performing for years. I'm glad I have the dedicated suction port because I will always use it for manual vacuuming here and there BUT, when the suction cleaner finally dies, I'm going with a robot. It's a lot less expensive to decouple the cleaner from using the pool pump as it's power source; you save money by not having to run your pumps as much. Robots nowadays use about 250-300W of electricity which is a lot cheaper than most of the pump-driven cleaners.

I'm not a huge fan of dedicated wall panels for automation control. With an EasyTouch automation system you can, at the very least, get a wireless RF EasyTouch remote that will do everything a wall panel will do and take up about 1/10 the space. A wall panel might look nice now, but in a few years the technology will change, things will get smaller and faster and, after a while, you'll be left with this big, bulky old-school looking wall panel. It would be like having an old-style rotary phone hanging from the wall while everyone else is using iPhones. Also, you'll save on not having to run extra electrical lines inside the walls and busting a hole in the wall to put the panel in...
 
Thanks Jimrahbe. My PB was discussing screenlogic2 as an add-on to the IntelliTouch I5 and wall controller (or Mobiletouch if unable to run wires). Not as an alternative to Mobiletouch. Their $4,500 is I5, Mobiletouch controller, install and programming system. They're unfamiliar with EasyTouch.

Should I just get the IC40 without any automation? Or push them just for the IT I5 and screenlogic2?
 
Miles,

I'm puzzled.. is the following quote the pool you are building??? (Taken from your other post)

Got first PB quote: $60K

17x35 Freeform pool, concrete/gunite, 3'6"-4'-5'6" water level 3 inches less, 513 sq. ft., 15,390 gal.
Cantilever coping
White marble plaster
1 - 4 foot swimout (instead of ladder)
2 - LED colored underwater lights
4' of Kool Deck around perimeter of pool from water
Pentair Rebel suction cleaner
Stub out in side wall 2 inch pipe
Auto-fill valve
2 main drains & hydrostatic relief valve
2 skimmers, 4 returns all home run to equipment pad
Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 salt water generator
Pentair Easy Touch 4PSC-IC40-Single Body 520593 (includes SCG integration & IC40 cell)
Pentair Easy Touch Wireless Controller for 4 circuit systems 520546
Pentair Intelliflo VS 3050 pump
Pentair CC420 Cartridge Filter
Includes: 18" wall brush, 18" leaf skimmer, thermometer, start up chemicals, flexible vacuum head, test kit, vacuum hose, telescoping 8'-16' pole, 3/4" rope, anchors and hooks, 5"x9" floats
Schedule 40 plumbing, 6" frost proof standard tile
Lifetime warranty on shell to hold water, 3 yr warranty on workmanship, equipment - manufacturers' warranties
Price does not cover conditions such as underground water, rock, utility lines, septic systems or obstacles.

The above quote shows the EasyTouch??? So I am confused.

Jim R.
 
Jim R - sorry for the confusion. No, different (new) PB quote. 1 of 3 we received. We're tentatively leaning towards this newer PB for their quality of construction, but they're most experienced with installing and configuring Pentair IntelliTouch equipment. Are not familiar with Pentair EasyTouch.

15K gunite pool with Diamond Brite quartz finish.
2 skimmers. Independent vacuum line.
auto leveler
Returns as needed
2 anti-vortex main drains
Pentair IntelliChlor IC40 SWG
Pentair IntelliFlo VS pump
Pentair CC420 cartridge filter
2 Pentair Glo Brite LED color lights
2 Pentair bubblers (REMOVED)
Polaris auto cleaner with 3/4 hp. booster pump (REMOVED)
Pentair IntelliTouch I5 with Mobiletouch wireless remote ($4,500)

May add Aqua-Cal Heat Pump/Cooler ($5K option)
 
Miles,

Please re-read my above list of things that an automation system can do. Both the IntelliTouch and EasyTouch do basically the same thing. The IntelliTouch is designed for very large pools with all kinds of special features. It is way overkill for your pool but it will do everything the EasyTouch can do.

My problem is that I am biased toward having an automation system, even on a simple pool. It is also very easy for me to spent your money... :cool:

I suspect the reason for not wanting an automation system has to do with the additional cost. Completely understandable.. But, the old story is... "If you buy a poor tool you might save a little money, but you'll cry every time you use it. If you buy a good tool you only cry once.. when you buy it. Soon your pool will be bought and paid for and then:

Every time you have to go out to your equipment pad to adjust the pump speed, you'll cry.
Every time you have to go out to your equipment pad to adjust your SWG percentage, you'll cry.
Every time you have to change your pool light colors, you'll cry.
Every time you have to go out to your equipment pad to adjust your heater temperature, you'll cry.
Every time you ... well I'm sure you got my message.

Good luck with your decision.

Jim R.
 

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:goodpost:

Jim is spot on. The IntelliTouch is not really designed for a basic outdoor pool, its way overkill. The programming might be a little easier to do (not sure how true that is) but the logic of the EasyTouch and IntelliTouch is basically the same. If they have someone who is a certified Pentair installer then programming one or the other is exactly the same.

I would have a serious discussion with the PB. My gut feeling is your being up-sold on something that is not needed. I'm with Jim on automation - it's better to get now than later BUT it should not cost you what your PB is selling.
 
Thank you both for your input and guidance. It's exactly what I needed and very much appreciated.

Will advise that we wish to pursue EasyTouch with screenlogic2 and IntelliChlor IC40 SWG.

I suppose if they're a Pentair dealer and warranty center they should have access to resources necessary to figure out EasyTouch install and setup.
 
Miles,

Ask them to price an IC-60 for you as well. My pool is 16,000 gallons and I have an IC-40. While it works fine and I only ever have to run it at 50% output, I will definitely be replacing it with the larger IC-60 because, like filters, bigger is always better for SWGs. It will be an expensive replacement for me (probably ~$800+ ) because Pentair cells are the most expensive to replace. Since you are on the front end of a build, it's a lot easier to get all the "goodies" now rather than later.

Totally up to you, but definitely worth pricing out.
 

In lieu of the Pentair IntelliTouch I5 andPentair MobileTouch Wireless Accessory Kit (PN 520906), please confirm these are the correct part numbers for Pentair EasyTouch, IntelliChlor and ScreenLogic2 automation and I'm not overlooking any other needed equipment:

1.) Pentair EasyTouch 4 System with bundled IntelliChlor IC40 salt generator 4PSC-IC40 (PN 520593) @ $1,200
OR Pentair EasyTouch 8 System with bundled IntelliChlor IC60 salt generator 8SC-IC60 (PN 521150) @ $2,200

2.) Pentair ScreenLogic2 Interface & Wireless Connection Kit (PN 522104) @ $400 -- could I just order this on Amazon and install myself after the pool is built or does it require additional programming?
 
Miles,

To compare apples to apples..

The 520543 is a dual body system (Pool and Spa) that comes with an IC40 and two valve actuators. At SunPlay it is $1,500. But your PB will obviously charge more.
The 521150 is a dual body system (Pool and Spa) that comes with an IC60 and two valve actuators. At SunPlay it is $1, 800..

The 520593 is a single body system (Pool or Spa) that comes with the IC40 and No valve actuators. At SunPlay it is $1,200

Any of these will work fine for your Pool only set up. Since you do not have any water features or a Spa, you really do not need any valve actuators.

To get the IC60 you'll end up spending $600 extra with this bundle set up and I don't believe it is worth the extra money. It would be if you needed extra relays and the actuators, but you don't

Installing ScreenLogic2 is a pretty easy DIY project.

Jim R.
 
Thanks Jim for the detailed response. I included the IC60 as an option based on JoyfulNoise's previous response, but understand it's not needed for my pool setup. I may just as easily do the ScreenLogic2 install myself later. Surely there's a YouTube video on it :)

Once the EasyTouch 4 unit is installed and setup, will the ScreenLogic2 just read the settings and display them from the iOS device? Or is it necessary to go thru a unique configuration process to make the SL2 communicate with the ET?
 
Miles,

So basically, the EasyTouch talks via either a cable or wireless transceiver, to a device called a Protocol Adapter inside your house, near your household router.. The adapter talks "Pentair" on one end and "Ethernet" on the other end. The Ethernet end plugs into your household network. And then it acts like anything on the internet. So, in my case, I have an app/program on my computer that connected to my household network. When I bring up the app it talks to the EasyTouch via the adapter and displays all the settings. If I want my pool light to come on, I click on an icon and my PC sends a command to the EasyTouch to turn on the lights. Takes about a microsecond for the light to come on... also makes programming about 10 times easier.

Sorry, but I know nothing about how it works with Apple "stuff"... ;)

Jim R.
 
Miles,

The pool you are building is very much similar to what I got around 10 years ago.

All the advice everyone else has offered has been spot-on. I just wanted to add my two cents.

I've never used a robot cleaner, so I can't speak for it's superiority. I do know that my Hayward Navigator has been the single greatest source of aggravation over the years. I have to tear it down and clean it every couple months or so to keep it working.

That being said, at least the Navigator has been relatively inexpensive to maintain, costing me ~$200 over the years. My Pentair IC40 has had to be replaced twice. The first time was under warranty, the second time it cost me around $500, which was ~$150 cheaper than most pool places sell it for. In between those replacements, I used tablets for about 2 years. The IC40/ET combo is still a great solution, but expect to replace that cell within the first 3-4 years.

I'm not convinced that the extra money for the IC60 would be worthwhile. In theory, you should be able to get 50% more chlorine production, and in an ideal world that should result in 50% more cell life. In reality, I think there are other parts of the cell that fail before the plates get worn out, and these would probably fail at the same rate regardless of the size of the cell. I have yet to use my IC40 for more than 60% duty cycle @ 8-10 hours of pump time per day, so it is certainly sufficient unless you have abnormally swimmer usage or a lot of organic matter falling into your pool on a daily basis.
 
Peterl1365, thanks for your feedback. We finally landed on a 24-28K gal. SWG pool (been tweaking). Opted to stay with IC40 as you suggested. Family pool. No unusual swimming traffic or debris expected. In fact, we decided against a cover for now until we learn what we need. Pool should be finished in Dec:

~17x35 ft lagoon-shaped pool
3.5/4.5/8.0 ft - no diving board
6x12 ft tanning shelf
4 ft swimout at 8 ft depth
Autofill valve
2-3 surface skimmers
4 returns
DiamondBrite Super Blue finish
IC40/ET4
ScreenLogic2 remote control
IntelliFlo 3 hp 8 spd VS pump
Clean and Clear Plus 420 cart filter
2 Intellibrite colored LED lights
UltraTemp 120R H/C heat pump 125K
Equipment pad with gradual slope
Dolphin Z5 robot cleaner
Kool Deck sand buff decking
TF-100 test kit
K-1766 salt test kit
 
miles267 said:
Peterl1365, thanks for your feedback. We finally landed on a 24-28K gal. SWG pool (been tweaking). Opted to stay with IC40 as you suggested. Family pool. No unusual swimming traffic or debris expected. In fact, we decided against a cover for now until we learn what we need. Pool should be finished in Dec:
Click to expand...
Actually, for a 24-28K gallon pool, the IC60 may very well be the better choice. My comment about the IC40 versus IC60 was based on your initial post that your pool was going to be around 15K.

You might also want to consider a bigger filter. If I recall, the 520 SF filter was only about $100 more than the 420, but it will give you ~25% more capacity. This means longer times between filter cleanings. I only have to clean mine about once or twice a year, albeit for a smaller pool. I was a bit concerned about the cost of replacement filters, but my original set is still functioning well after almost 10 years of use. I think the 520 might also have slightly less resistance than the 420 as it starts to get dirty, which enhances the efficiency of your Intelliflo. Be aware that you may need to bump your pump speed up slightly over time to compensate for dirt building up inside your filter.

Also, I'm curious about the economics of the heat pump. I'm not sure about the cost of electricity versus natural gas in Arkansas, but a heat pump would be prohibitively expensive to operate here in Southern California. Our electric rates peak at around 40 cents/kWh. A natural gas heater would also heat your pool around 3 times faster (400K vs 125K BTU/h).
 

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