I am having a bit of trouble vacuuming up the blue particulates. It is an ultra fine dust, about 5 microns in size. I put a filter bag on the end of the discharge waste hose. I cannot catch anything with a 25 micron filter bag, but I can most of it with a 5 micron filter bag. When I vacuum, the dust very easily gets resuspended and takes more 24 hours to resettle (I say more because it has been 24 hours and I can only see 2 feet down in the water). Moreover, I have an "oil slick" looking substance on the top of the water that cannot get captured in an ultra fine skimmer pole net. I tried to capture it in the nightime picture below. Given this slick on top of the water and how easily the ultra fine copper carbonate and copper oxide dust on the bottom of the pool gets disturbed and resuspended, should I be considering a clarifier?
Instant Blue Green Suspension/Sludge during Winterizing
- Thread starter celisup78
- Start date
Also, since my pH is still sitting around 6.6....do I need to get it above 7 or does it not matter if I am doing a no-drain water exchange? I didnt know if correcting the pH now will help or hurt my process.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,695
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
I would not use a clarifier...will not be good for the cartridge filter.
Are you running the filter when the dust gets suspended? Is the cartridge filter catching any of it?
I think that Jack's Magic, The Blue Stuff (sequestrant) would help you filter the calcium carbonate out.
www.troublefreepool.com
1) Wait for confirmation from @JoyfulNoise , @JamesW , @mknauss or @ajw22. Get confirmation from one of them, then I'd use it.
2) If you get confirmation and decide to use it, clean your filters, note clean pressure. Monitor closely. When filter pressure rises 25%, then clean.
If they don't concur on The Blue Stuff, the only other advice I have is to continue to filter and vacuum. When you get some clarity back, do the water exchange.
On the oil slick, stick a couple tennis balls in the skimmers.
Are you running the filter when the dust gets suspended? Is the cartridge filter catching any of it?
I think that Jack's Magic, The Blue Stuff (sequestrant) would help you filter the calcium carbonate out.
Sequestrant - Further Reading
www.troublefreepool.com
1) Wait for confirmation from @JoyfulNoise , @JamesW , @mknauss or @ajw22. Get confirmation from one of them, then I'd use it.
2) If you get confirmation and decide to use it, clean your filters, note clean pressure. Monitor closely. When filter pressure rises 25%, then clean.
If they don't concur on The Blue Stuff, the only other advice I have is to continue to filter and vacuum. When you get some clarity back, do the water exchange.
On the oil slick, stick a couple tennis balls in the skimmers.
I havent tried my filter beyond the initial winter chemical dosing listed above. I am currently discharging waste just before the filter. I also have a brand new filter to put in as the old one has blue/green gunk in it (this stuff but bigger?) and it is difficult to clean it. It certainly needed replaced anyways as I dont know the last time it was by the previous owner. I have contemplated running the water through the new filter to see if it catches this dust. I am willing to gunk up the brand new filter if it means the calcium oxide and calcium carbonate fine solids are removed, and I can proceed with the no-drain water exchange.
Tennis balls in the skimmer. Interesting idea, I'll have to try that! I see the Jacks also sells a "surface magic" cleaner.
Tennis balls in the skimmer. Interesting idea, I'll have to try that! I see the Jacks also sells a "surface magic" cleaner.
- May 3, 2014
- 62,771
- Pool Size
- 6000
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
The sooner you can dump this water and get fresh the better.
I would not use any chemical clarifier or sequestrant.
You likely will need to do multiple drain/refills. Even if you do the no drain exchange. It is not that efficient, and you need to get rid of this mess.
I would not use any chemical clarifier or sequestrant.
You likely will need to do multiple drain/refills. Even if you do the no drain exchange. It is not that efficient, and you need to get rid of this mess.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,695
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Roger that. The sump pump comes this weekend and I plan on starting on Sunday or Monday depending on life. I am also ordering a TF test kit tonight. My pool is about 8 degrees colder than my spigot water (as of last night). I am planning on pumping from the deep end with the sump pump and filling top side from the shallow end. It is not clear if it would be advantageous to also run the pool pump so the jets help circulate the water?
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,695
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Turn the pump off. You want the water to stratify so that the pumping out will take the old water.
The last week was rough, but I did have a few minutes to build 3 of these filter bag adapters that screw into my 3 eye jet ports. Running the pump for 24 hours with one bag exchange on each adapter took my pool from a cloudy mess and not being able to see 2 feet down to crystal clear. I also had to rinse out the cartridge filter every 4 hours as it was coated in blue copper salts, but the salts washed out very easily. I have attached pics in case it helps someone in the future removing fine particulates. The male is a 1 1/2" pvc male and going up to a 2" spigot soil adapter. They didnt sell them in 1 1/2" size, so I had to step up the pvc pipe from 1 1/2" to 2". The bags were 1 micron and roughly 6x15" long, held on by a clamp. You can see that it is blue from catching the copper salts that the filter missed. All pvc parts purchased from home depot. Early this morning I started the water exchange with the sump pump in the deep end and the fill water in the shallow (first emptying into a tote). I used the equation to determine were to pump/fill but my temp difference is only 6 degrees so I will probably get undesired mixing, needing to repeat the drain refill process.
I also purchased a TF test kit so I can monitor the chemical levels. I will update with results. Thanks.
I also purchased a TF test kit so I can monitor the chemical levels. I will update with results. Thanks.
Attachments
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,695
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Results: did the exchange over a period of 20 hours. I estimate that I used 14k gal of fill water in the 11k gal pool. I then recirculated for 5 hours before pulling a sample for test. The results below are from the pool store right down the road. I have not had the chance to use the TF kit yet, but that doesnt appear to have a copper test.
Results on the left are from last weekend, results on the right are from today.
Copper: 3.2, 0.3 then retested at the store with copper test strips: strip showed <0.2 ppm
Iron: 0.1, 0.1
TA: 49, 51
pH: 6.8, 7.9
Total Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
Free Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
CYA: 162, 5
Calcium Hardness: 134, 51
Phosphate: 194, 882
I am pleased with the results. I saw a card in the TF Test kit that had a QR code for pool math? I am hoping that takes me to a calculator that tells me what I need to add to correct the TA, pH, Chlorine, and CYA.
Results on the left are from last weekend, results on the right are from today.
Copper: 3.2, 0.3 then retested at the store with copper test strips: strip showed <0.2 ppm
Iron: 0.1, 0.1
TA: 49, 51
pH: 6.8, 7.9
Total Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
Free Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
CYA: 162, 5
Calcium Hardness: 134, 51
Phosphate: 194, 882
I am pleased with the results. I saw a card in the TF Test kit that had a QR code for pool math? I am hoping that takes me to a calculator that tells me what I need to add to correct the TA, pH, Chlorine, and CYA.
- Jun 24, 2021
- 16,695
- Pool Size
- 29000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-60 Plus
Results from test kit (pool store results below that). Is there a way for me to log results without saying that I treated it? It isnt clear in the Pool Math app.
TA: 70
pH: 7.7
FC: 0
CYA: 0
CH: 75
Copper: 3.2, 0.3 then retested at the store with copper test strips: strip showed <0.2 ppm
Iron: 0.1, 0.1
TA: 49, 51
pH: 6.8, 7.9
Total Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
Free Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
CYA: 162, 5
Calcium Hardness: 134, 51
Phosphate: 194, 882
TA: 70
pH: 7.7
FC: 0
CYA: 0
CH: 75
Copper: 3.2, 0.3 then retested at the store with copper test strips: strip showed <0.2 ppm
Iron: 0.1, 0.1
TA: 49, 51
pH: 6.8, 7.9
Total Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
Free Chlorine: 15.55, 0.14
CYA: 162, 5
Calcium Hardness: 134, 51
Phosphate: 194, 882
Pool math is saying that I should add (11k gal pool):
TA 70....add nothing as the target is 60-80 (the pool store mentions that the range should be 110-160, why the stark difference?)
pH 7.7..... 0.6 oz of sodium bisulfate
FC 0.....7 oz of 65% cal-hypo
CYA 0.... 4.25 lbs of dry stabilizer
CH 75.... 40lb calcium chloride (can you really add deicer instead of the pool grade? It seems that many deicers have calcium, sodium, and/or magnesium chloride mixtures?)
Adding these chemicals could impact other numbers, which order should I add and at what point should I retest any of them before dosing the recommendations above?
When it comes to dry stabilizer - I am reading dissolving horror stories and I am a bit concerned that I am trying to get 4lbs to dissolve in Pennsylvania November water temps. Do I need to spend the extra money and use liquid CYA increaser?
TA 70....add nothing as the target is 60-80 (the pool store mentions that the range should be 110-160, why the stark difference?)
pH 7.7..... 0.6 oz of sodium bisulfate
FC 0.....7 oz of 65% cal-hypo
CYA 0.... 4.25 lbs of dry stabilizer
CH 75.... 40lb calcium chloride (can you really add deicer instead of the pool grade? It seems that many deicers have calcium, sodium, and/or magnesium chloride mixtures?)
Adding these chemicals could impact other numbers, which order should I add and at what point should I retest any of them before dosing the recommendations above?
When it comes to dry stabilizer - I am reading dissolving horror stories and I am a bit concerned that I am trying to get 4lbs to dissolve in Pennsylvania November water temps. Do I need to spend the extra money and use liquid CYA increaser?
Last edited:
- May 23, 2015
- 25,763
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Yes, as soon as I can get the water correct and before things start to freeze here (sooner the better).
- May 23, 2015
- 25,763
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I’d almost close it as-is and call it a day. Get the FC up to SLAM level, do whatever you plan to do equipment-wise, then cover it and forget it until the spring. Maybe plan to open it up early and get everything balanced before the water warms up. You’re fighting against time right now and you don’t have a lot of it. Messing around with dry chemicals in cold water is just going to be a PITA.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,114
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Chlorine is King 
So get that up ASAP.
If you cover immediately you won’t really need cya - if you really want to you can do 20ppm if you’re concerned about raising to slam level with no cya or aren’t going to cover for some days.
Fc won’t hold long in the sun without protection.
Your ph & ta are fine where they are
Your ch is fine unless you’re running your heater then it could stand to increase some - but you can just do that in the spring. We do recommend using dedicated calcium increaser to avoid unwanted ingredients.
Pool stores want you to have a higher ta because their trichlor pucks and dichlor “shock” will tank your ph & ta quickly.
You’re pool is not on that diet so no worries.
So get that up ASAP.
If you cover immediately you won’t really need cya - if you really want to you can do 20ppm if you’re concerned about raising to slam level with no cya or aren’t going to cover for some days.
Fc won’t hold long in the sun without protection.
Your ph & ta are fine where they are
Your ch is fine unless you’re running your heater then it could stand to increase some - but you can just do that in the spring. We do recommend using dedicated calcium increaser to avoid unwanted ingredients.
Pool stores want you to have a higher ta because their trichlor pucks and dichlor “shock” will tank your ph & ta quickly.
You’re pool is not on that diet so no worries.
- Jun 1, 2018
- 16,114
- Pool Size
- 26000
- Surface
- Vinyl
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
Logging test results and logging additions are two different things.
Press the + at the bottom then + again to log your results.
Press the
when finished.The most recent logged results will then show as your “current” value in each overview card on the main screen.
Then you can click on each card individually and calculate your needs then hit “log addition” then suggested amount or different amount to log the addition for that parameter.
This will not automatically change your recent results. You will repeat the process next time when you test a particular parameter.
Thanks, the instructions to log test results on the app worked. I will focus on FC first. To hit SLAM levels (10 ppm per pool math), I have both 65% cal-hypo dry powder and 10% liquid. Do I need to be concerned about the 90% of "other ingredients" in the liquid version?
Do I need to be concerned about corrosive issues with a CH of 75? I am not turning the heater back on until I open the pool up in the spring.
I found trichlor pucks that the previous owner sent me. Those went straight to the trash from reading on this site. I also advised my neighbor to do the same, which he did after I warned him about tri and dichlor products.
Do I need to be concerned about corrosive issues with a CH of 75? I am not turning the heater back on until I open the pool up in the spring.
I found trichlor pucks that the previous owner sent me. Those went straight to the trash from reading on this site. I also advised my neighbor to do the same, which he did after I warned him about tri and dichlor products.