Imminent hard freeze prep question

[tstex]

Hello and Merry CHRISTmas to all the great TFP forum members

It's supposed to be in the 16-18 range as the lowest w multiple nights in low to mid/high 20's, but the coldest day temp is 34 [as of now]. My pool system has frost protection that cuts on around 34 degrees...therefore, I see frost protection possibly running for 48 hrs straight and 12-16 hr runs at other times.

Question: Would it be best to load up the liquid bleach to 8-10ppm, then drain heater, pumps, filter, etc rather than run the system for a long time. Also, I have an ecostar that trips the breaker more than most pumps, so if it fails late night, the damage could be severe. For you guys mid-west and up N, this is child's temp's for you, but it;s our upper extreme.

Thank you and pls advise,
tstex

 

[ajw22]

Question: Would it be best to load up the liquid bleach to 8-10ppm, then drain heater, pumps, filter, etc rather than run the system for a long time. Also, I have an ecostar that trips the breaker more than most pumps, so if it fails late night, the damage could be severe.

Yes, that is the best protection for your equipment.

 

[1poolman1]

Hello and Merry CHRISTmas to all the great TFP forum members

It's supposed to be in the 16-18 range as the lowest w multiple nights in low to mid/high 20's, but the coldest day temp is 34 [as of now]. My pool system has frost protection that cuts on around 34 degrees...therefore, I see frost protection possibly running for 48 hrs straight and 12-16 hr runs at other times.

Question: Would it be best to load up the liquid bleach to 8-10ppm, then drain heater, pumps, filter, etc rather than run the system for a long time. Also, I have an ecostar that trips the breaker more than most pumps, so if it fails late night, the damage could be severe. For you guys mid-west and up N, this is child's temp's for you, but it;s our upper extreme.

Thank you and pls advise,
tstex

Is it a GFCB that the EcoStar trips? If so, changing the brand to a Siemans should solve the problem. That's what I have and the EcoStar pump has never caused an issue. After installing several with an Eaton GFCB and having to change them to Siemans, that just became what I would use, though they used to be much more expensive than Eaton. Not so much anymore.

 

[BowserB]

Hello and Merry CHRISTmas to all the great TFP forum members

It's supposed to be in the 16-18 range as the lowest w multiple nights in low to mid/high 20's, but the coldest day temp is 34 [as of now]. My pool system has frost protection that cuts on around 34 degrees...therefore, I see frost protection possibly running for 48 hrs straight and 12-16 hr runs at other times.

Question: Would it be best to load up the liquid bleach to 8-10ppm, then drain heater, pumps, filter, etc rather than run the system for a long time. Also, I have an ecostar that trips the breaker more than most pumps, so if it fails late night, the damage could be severe. For you guys mid-west and up N, this is child's temp's for you, but it;s our upper extreme.

Thank you and pls advise,
tstex

I see you've been on the forum since 2012. If you've had a pool that long, what did you do during the Big Texas Freeze in 2021? And how did you fare? Freeze protection (plus our standby generator since we were without grid power for 50 hours) worked for our system, except the water feature pump which was not on freeze protection and I found out too late. FYI, our Pentair freeze protection kicks in at 36 and shuts off at 40, with a speed of 1850 rpm. That speed I wouldn't worry about running 24 hours for a few days. Oh, I'm in Katy, north side of I-10.

 

[BowserB]

Is it a GFCB that the EcoStar trips? If so, changing the brand to a Siemans should solve the problem. That's what I have and the EcoStar pump has never caused an issue. After installing several with an Eaton GFCB and having to change them to Siemans, that just became what I would use, though they used to be much more expensive than Eaton. Not so much anymore.

If that is Eaton breaker tripping (too late now but for the future) Eaton website has a procedure for testing the breaker AND has a lifetime warranty. Our main house breakers are Eaton CH Combination AFCI with GF Protection. Had two fail a couple months ago. You can call or email tech support and they'll send you a link to the test procedure. Then you call and they schedule replacements to send to you.

 

[1poolman1]

If that is Eaton breaker tripping (too late now but for the future) Eaton website has a procedure for testing the breaker AND has a lifetime warranty. Our main house breakers are Eaton CH Combination AFCI with GF Protection. Had two fail a couple months ago. You can call or email tech support and they'll send you a link to the test procedure. Then you call and they schedule replacements to send to you.

Its not that the Eaton breaker may be defective, its the electrical "noise" that a VSP has that appears to cause nuisance tripping of their GFCB. That's why Pentair specifies their branded GFCB (a re-branded and more expensive) Siemans 20A GFCB be used. Put an Eaton (or any other brand, really) on a Pentair VSP and it will have problems, been there, done that.
Happened with some early EcoStars as well, including mine. Never really studied the "whys" of the issue, only needed to know what works, what doesn't, and move on to the next job.

 

[BowserB]

Its not that the Eaton breaker may be defective, its the electrical "noise" that a VSP has that appears to cause nuisance tripping of their GFCB. That's why Pentair specifies their branded GFCB (a re-branded and more expensive) Siemans 20A GFCB be used. Put an Eaton (or any other brand, really) on a Pentair VSP and it will have problems, been there, done that.
Happened with some early EcoStars as well, including mine. Never really studied the "whys" of the issue, only needed to know what works, what doesn't, and move on to the next job.

Thanks for that info. I'll have to look into that. My pool panel is all Eaton, and the pump is a Pentair VSF, both installed 2018. Is it only the variable speed pumps that are a problem for Eaton? I have four breakers but only one on the VSP. Of course in a freeze, that is the critical one, isn't it.

 

[tstex]

thank you all for everyone's feedback and advice

First, I [felt like I] wrote a book on the Ecostar and GFCI breakers tripping and consulted directly w Mike Holt on his electrical forum. We used Siemens and Sq D. Most GFCI have a 4-6mA tolerance, w Siemens being at 6mA's. And yes, the electrical harmonics of VSP's builds up and will ground the GFCI breakers very easily under optimal conditions. However, the controllers on the ecostars have an inherent faulty design that there is no way of correcting, but that "should have been done" w the TriStar 2.7HP controller. Hayward corrected some of the electronics of the EcoStar controller, but they could not change the entire design, thus there are environmental issues you cannot change and programmable issues you can.

First, if you live in Sacramento, the heat and humidity are WAY LESS than TX, LA, FL, etc. Ecostars last longer and trip less in cooler less humid places....no one can change these unless you move. Next, programming them to run on the 3000+RPM's is bad anywhere, but more so in hotter/humid climates. Mine doesn't exceed 2800rpms unless the spa is going = 2985rpms...So, running an ecostar in a northern/NW climate w low humidity at low RPMS = highest ROI. All the inverses hold true when in a hotter humid climate at higher RPM's.

Next, I had my system on frost protection mode during the horrible TX freeze a couple of years ago and it was doing fine until our power went out for 55 hrs during 10-25 degrees. When the grid failed, I drained everything, including the heater plug. My cell phone went berserk w nbors calling and I ended up draining 12-15 more equip pads, No on sustained any damage on future startups...the ones that did not drain them sustained tremendous damage.

Finally, I think I'm inclined to drain everything and also give the pumps a break...they'd be running on and off for 48 hrs...And, I have 23 gallons of 12.5% bleach on hand and the water will be so cool, so no algae anyway....Merry CHRISTmas !

PS - joined the forum in 2012, but our pool was built in late 2014 and operable Jan 2015...I also have 2 of the best home surge protection systems which the pool pad is using too

 

[BowserB]

thank you all for everyone's feedback and advice
...
Finally, I think I'm inclined to drain everything and also give the pumps a break...they'd be running on and off for 48 hrs...And, I have 23 gallons of 12.5% bleach on hand and the water will be so cool, so no algae anyway....Merry CHRISTmas !
PS - joined the forum in 2012, but our pool was built in late 2014 and operable Jan 2015...I also have 2 of the best home surge protection systems which the pool pad is using too

Well, txtex, I've got forecasts from Fox26, The Weather Channel, and Accuweather. Accuweather's is downright scary with 10 degrees, Fox says 19, and TWC says 18. 31 high Friday and 22 Fri nite. Water temp is 56 right now. I'd consider heating it on Thursday, but my Pentair heater is out of commission waiting for Clear Water Pool Repair to "get me on the schedule." I'm not sure the heater would function with 56 degree water anyway. Last time besides the water feature pump volute bursting from freezing, I also lost the autofill backflow preventer (because I forgot to shut it off and bleed out the water!) So I am going to drain the water feature pump and rely on freeze protection to keep the water moving. Inspecting the pad, it looks like I've got a couple places where there is PVC pipe too high to drain.

Oh and we also have a whole house surge protector installed with the Kohler backup generator.

 

[tstex]

I have read that when it's below 60, using your heating causes a lot of condensation inside and is not good for heat exchanger...I am going to drain all Thursday morning and up the FC PPM to 10. That should do the trick...I just hope there's no water in upper pipes....Merry CHRISTmas

 

[HeyEng]

I have read that when it's below 60, using your heating causes a lot of condensation inside and is not good for heat exchanger...I am going to drain all Thursday morning and up the FC PPM to 10. That should do the trick...I just hope there's no water in upper pipes....Merry CHRISTmas

There are a few threads on the heater use, condensation and warranty issues. Generally, it's best to not run it when it's cold but if you do run it, let it get to at least 68 degrees (but be cognizant of warranty issues). Some heaters won't come on at all below a certain temp but some will. Here is some reading on it:

Heater Condensation - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

I have run mine when the water temp was around 35 and it worked just fine...but I have heated to at least 80 degrees...as I did before the freeze of 2021*. I think that was my saving grace since others around me were having equipment freezing even with the pumps running. However as you can see from my attachment, it got MUCH colder for MUCH longer than this blast is forecast to be.

*The heater is 15'ish years old and I believe I am on borrowed time anyway so if it dies, I am not going to cry over it. If it was only a couple of years old, I probably wouldn't run it.