I'm at a loss. Need help clearing my pool up. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[manderson2228]

We bought a house with a pool 2 years and it's been nothing but a headache. Previous owners didn't open it for a few years and allowed the gutter run off to go down into the pool. We had them make it swim able before we bought it and they did but we continue to have issues and i'm just not sure what it is. We have added a new heater, a new variable speed motor, a new multiport valve as the gasket was bad, we had the sand redone end of last year, and we did a salt cell generator the IC40 for our 27k pool. We had the IC30 and it wasn't generating enough or any salt not sure and we had our pool shop swap that out.


TDS: 5000
Salt: 3600
Ph 7.4
Alkalinity: 95
Calcium Hardness: 180
Free chlorine: 1.2
Total chlorine 1.7
CYA: 104
Phosphates: 4000
Metals (specificially copper) .3

We just can not get this pool clear. Oddly when we opened it up earler this year it was perfect really clear, once the season wore on it's been cloudy espeically after i tried to do a phosphate treatment because we couldn't keep chlorine in it. It's been cloudy for almost a month now and it was cloudy for most of last year. It's like a milky haze almost. I can most days see the drain otherwise its always cloudy. We had issues maintaining chlorine levels and i'm not sure if it was the old generator and the new one fixed it or all the chlorine is being used. We have shocked the heck out of it and still super cloudy.

I'm honestly not sure if i should care about the phosphates or not. I hear people say ignore them, and i hear people say that ours are so high we need to treat. I did a metal treatment and that seems to have helped with the staining i'll know more when i get that tested at the pool store.

We run the pump 24x7 at either 2250 or 3150 rpm. I have the 4ppm culator in the basket as well to help with the metals.

 

[summertimesadness]

How are you testing your water samples?

 

[manderson2228]

Both at 2 different pool stores, and with the taylor k 2006 when i do it myself to confirm things.

 

[mbeezie]

As a starting point, your CYA is way too high for the FC level. you will never get a clear pool with that ratio. the higher your CYA, the higher your FC levels have to be to sanitize your pool.

See here: Free Chlorine and Cyanuric Acid Relationship Explained

You probably need to SLAM it first given how out of whack it is

 

[summertimesadness]

Ok, my 2 cents, don't use the pool stores for any testing. Trust Taylor and only that.

You'll want to add more FC. Equivalent of 5ppm. Your CYA is very high for just using LC. Can you replace some of the water to bring it down?

 

[manderson2228]

What should my CYA target be? Im using a salt cell and i'm struggling to get it up to higher levels running it at 80%. How much would i need to empty and refill?

 

[summertimesadness]

What should my CYA target be? Im using a salt cell and i'm struggling to get it up to higher levels running it at 80%. How much would i need to empty and refill?

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

To be straight forward, your SWCG is small for your pool size. It should be double (approx) your pool volume. It's gonna struggle to keep up all the time. But, what's also hurting is the high level of CYA.

One step at a time. Can you grab the pool math app?

 

[manderson2228]

What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

Use our tool to find ideal chemical levels for any swimming pool. Check TFP recommended levels on pH, free chlorine, cyanuric acid, and more.

www.troublefreepool.com

To be straight forward, your SWCG is small for your pool size. It should be double (approx) your pool volume. It's gonna struggle to keep up all the time. But, what's also hurting is the high level of CYA.

One step at a time. Can you grab the pool math app?

I have the app., i just tested the CYA on the taylor and its around 100. I see i need to bring it down to 80 or so, just curious how much water that would be.

I just had the pool company replace me from the IC30 to IC40. So much for trusting them....... I'm having to run the 40 at 80% to maintain any reasonable level of chlorine.

 

[summertimesadness]

I have the app., i just tested the CYA on the taylor and its around 100. I see i need to bring it down to 80 or so, just curious how much water that would be.

I just had the pool company replace me from the IC30 to IC40. So much for trusting them....... I'm having to run the 40 at 80% to maintain any reasonable level of chlorine.

Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as you are at 100 and want to be 20% lower (80), you need to replace about 20% of your pool water. So, 20% of 27000 is about 5000 gallons? Someone more experienced should chime in on that one.

To address your other concern;

The picture is with your SWCG and if you're running it 24 hrs a day. 5 is quite a bit to add. Do you have any liquid chlorine you can manually add?

 

[JupiterFL]

Hopefully one of the experts will jump in here soon.

SLAM Process at 80 cya will be very difficult. You want to get to 60 or below. 40 would be best.

You will want to do a no drain water exchange. Draining - Further Reading

 

[manderson2228]

Hopefully one of the experts will jump in here soon.

SLAM Process at 80 cya will be very difficult. You want to get to 60 or below. 40 would be best.

You will want to do a no drain water exchange. Draining - Further Reading

So this is my frustration with all of this. The website here linked above for ideal pool levels shows CYA at 70-80. I just called pentair and they said 30-50, i assume you are 30-50 as well. Which is frustration because i feel like i never know what numbers to hit as everyone has a different opinion on it......

 

[manderson2228]

Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but as you are at 100 and want to be 20% lower (80), you need to replace about 20% of your pool water. So, 20% of 27000 is about 5000 gallons? Someone more experienced should chime in on that one.

To address your other concern;

The picture is with your SWCG and if you're running it 24 hrs a day. 5 is quite a bit to add. Do you have any liquid chlorine you can manually add?

I obviously need to bring the level up to maintain but i have to assume a 40k pool swcg should be able to hold a 27k pool? I assume by LC you mean sodium hypo? I have the powder dichlor packets but i plan to get the LC tomorrow.

I've drained down below my skimmer and back up about 5 times already. I'll do some more tomorrow and test again in the morning.

 

[manderson2228]

Pentiair also mentioned that my phosphates at 4000 is a problem. I know a lot here say dont worry about phosphates but i'm getting conflicting info. The best i can tell phosphates are ok in smaller doses but 4k is too much and something needs to be done? Is that reasonable?

 

[RLP]

So the methods on this board do not align with most other theories, regarding FC, CYA, and other parameters. I have learned on here that the generally accepted chemical levels are based on antiquated principles of pool water care.

You can read through Pool School, and look at some of the posts in the deep end to see how the science has been applied and how the contributors of this forum have come up with what we preach.

I can tell you that once you follow these methodologies your pool will be sanitized and sparkle like you cant believe. It gets easier once you get used to it.

But you have to trust the methods described here, and go all in. Test your own water, and dose to the recommended levels.

I don't want to say that the manufacturer's are not giving proper levels to obtain a TFP clear pool....but they aren't.

 

[RLP]

Do a diluted cya test

Water Testing Instructions - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

maybe @mknauss can offer advice.

 

[Mdragger88]

In an algae free swcg pool 70-80 ppm cya is fine & recommended for summer.
But you have an algae problem & need to do the
SLAM Process with liquid chlorine which is much easier to accomplish with a lower cya as you can see here the higher the cya the more fc you need to have the same effect
FC/CYA Levels
You need to do the diluted cya test to determine exactly how much cya you have currently since it reads above 90
Step 8

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric acid (CYA) is the chemical name for the product commonly called “pool water stabilizer” … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Then you can exchange enough water to get it down to 50 ppm - you can add more cya back after the slam is 100% completed.
It is a 1:1 ratio- to reduce from 100ppm cya to 50ppm you would exchange 50% of your water.

Trust your taylor results
Don’t use anymore solid forms of chlorine- they either add cya or calcium- both of which can cause problems.

 

[manderson2228]

In an algae free swcg pool 70-80 ppm cya is fine & recommended for summer.
But you have an algae problem & need to do the
SLAM Process with liquid chlorine which is much easier to accomplish with a lower cya as you can see here the higher the cya the more fc you need to have the same effect
FC/CYA Levels
You need to do the diluted cya test to determine exactly how much cya you have currently since it reads above 90
Step 8

CYA - Cyanuric Acid Test

Cyanuric acid (CYA) is the chemical name for the product commonly called “pool water stabilizer” … Read more…

www.troublefreepool.com

Then you can exchange enough water to get it down to 50 ppm - you can add more cya back after the slam is 100% completed.
It is a 1:1 ratio- to reduce from 100ppm cya to 50ppm you would exchange 50% of your water.

Trust your taylor results
Don’t use anymore solid forms of chlorine- they either add cya or calcium- both of which can cause problems.

How do we know I have an algae problem? I don't see any algae?
I used the taylor to test the CYA earlier today it was right at 100 or so. So i've been draining.
I will convert to the liquid chlorine.

 

[Mdragger88]

How do we know I have an algae problem? I don't see any algae?

Cloudy water
Can’t keep fc even with the swcg running
fc has been well below minimum for your cya

I used the taylor to test the CYA earlier today it was right at 100 or so. So i've been draining.
I will convert to the liquid chlorine.

Upon refill after circulating a bit get fc up to target fc level for your new cya
FC/CYA Levels
& do an
Overnight Chlorine Loss Test this will confirm or deny your algae problem.

 

[summertimesadness]

So this is my frustration with all of this. The website here linked above for ideal pool levels shows CYA at 70-80. I just called pentair and they said 30-50, i assume you are 30-50 as well. Which is frustration because i feel like i never know what numbers to hit as everyone has a different opinion on it......

I run 70

I obviously need to bring the level up to maintain but i have to assume a 40k pool swcg should be able to hold a 27k pool? I assume by LC you mean sodium hypo? I have the powder dichlor packets but i plan to get the LC tomorrow.

I've drained down below my skimmer and back up about 5 times already. I'll do some more tomorrow and test again in the morning.

They recommend double to amount of volume for your purchase. You are correct, the 40k can handle the 27k, but you probably will be running at a higher % because of it.

LC is liquid chlorine. If you need to SLAM, you'll want to turn off the SWCG while you are SLAMming.

 

[woodyp]

An over night chlorine loss test will confirm an algae problem.