I opened my pool for the first time in 2years

[jblizzle]

3) If you have high TA fill water, you may not be able to keep the TA low enough to where you would want to add them. If you did, this will required more acid to be used as the pH will tend to try to rise faster due to the high TA.

Really the only GOOD reason to add them (in my opinion) is to slow the pH rise if you can get the TA down and still need more pH stabilization, like due to a SWG. The other reasons are secondary and often overstated or not noticeable to some people.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

downsides to adding borates?
I can only think of two.
1) They are an additional expense
2) There has been some concern of toxicity if dogs drink large quantities of water from the pool.

It's toxic to plants and lawn so you have to be careful where you put backwash. You don't want to use it to water landscape plants. They can be much more sensitive to it than grass.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Fingers crossed. Leak might be found in the mechanism of the filter handle. Neighbor helped me out and he thinks the gasket in the thing that turns the pump to waste, backwash, filter etc might be bad and that with the gasket weak some of the water was going to waste when it was set to filter???

It's sometimes referred to as the spider gasket. Here is a youtube on replacing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGjjBZFF_s It's not hard at all. Once you have a new one in remember to only change positions with the pump off and always rotate it in the same direction every time (usually clockwise).

Yes you want 20 mule team borax and then some muratic acid.

 

[chanelvaps]

Thanks for the pics folks-just want to make sure I am getting the right thing. Mind still blown that I am buying over the counter laundry aids to neutralize my pool!

It's sometimes referred to as the spider gasket. Here is a youtube on replacing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGjjBZFF_s It's not hard at all. Once you have a new one in remember to only change positions with the pump off and always rotate it in the same direction every time (usually clockwise).

Yes you want 20 mule team borax and then some muratic acid.

 

[kimkats]

My cats have water offered but a couple LOVE to drink out of the pool AND when I drain water out of my pool it tends to go to the pond soooooooooooooooo no borax for me.

Thanks for helping me understand the reasoning surrounding the thoughts.

Kim

 

[chanelvaps]

Just wondering-I counted 20+ boxes of 20 Mule Borax in the picture above. I just paid $4 something a box. It almost seems like PH increaser in the pool store was cheaper than $80. Just wondering~

It's sometimes referred to as the spider gasket. Here is a youtube on replacing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYGjjBZFF_s It's not hard at all. Once you have a new one in remember to only change positions with the pump off and always rotate it in the same direction every time (usually clockwise).

Yes you want 20 mule team borax and then some muratic acid.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

You can use 20 mule team to add borates (lots of boxes and need acid) or you can use it to raise pH with only a few oz's.

If you are adding borates the PH increaser isn't going to do that. http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/4655-So-you-want-to-add-borates-to-your-pool-Why-and-How

 

[chanelvaps]

Oh No! I do not want to add Borates. I just want to raise PH. I bought like 5 huge boxes because my PoolMath calculator said add something like 499 oz's. Alright some Oz's does sound more reasonable. Like how many?

- - - Updated - - -

from Pool Math calculator

Given TA of 40 and Borate of 0
Add 251 oz by weight or 219 oz by volume of washing soda or soda ash
or add 499 oz by weight or 478 by volume of borax.

 

[jblizzle]

To raise pH from what to what?
What volume do you have entered?

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

To raise pH from what to what?

+1, Need some numbers to know what we're talking about :study:

 

[chanelvaps]

It is registering under 6.8 so I am not sure exactly but I want to bring it to 7.5-7.8
Pool is 23,000 gals

THANKS!

 

[Abigail K]

from Pool Math calculator

Given TA of 40 and Borate of 0
Add 251 oz by weight or 219 oz by volume of washing soda or soda ash
or add 499 oz by weight or 478 by volume of borax.

It is registering under 6.8 so I am not sure exactly but I want to bring it to 7.5-7.8
Pool is 23,000 gals

THANKS!

The numbers you have indicated are
23 k gal pool
TA 40
Borate 0
pH 6.8 (or less)

Plugging the numbers into PoolMath returns 127oz by weight or 122oz by volume borax to raise pH to 7.5, did you set the correct pool volume?
I vaguely remember something about not doing full additions especially for pH changes, I'd say add half the amount and re-test. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Butterfly]

Yes, as Abigail mentioned, only add about 1/2 the dose, circulate for 30 minutes, retest and adjust slowly from there.

Shoot for 7.5 pH.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

You might want to adjust your signature pools size to 23,000 gallons so you're not getting us simple folk confused any more than we already are

+1 with Butterfly. At 7.8 you usually lower your ph so it makes more sense to target 7.5.

 

[chanelvaps]

Alright spider gasket seems to have solved leak problem. So far so good. Back to tackling additions. Tonight I added 125 Oz Borax and 1 gallon of bleach and 1 4lb box of baking soda. I did have the TA right but we had a lot of rain. Running the pump all night and going to check with test kit in the morning.
I did change my signature to say 23,000
Thanks all

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

Running the pump all night to

If it's to mix the water an hour will likely be more than enough. It is recommended to make an addition of ONE chemical, mix and then do the next. It's recommended and I have to admit I don't always follow that but I'm puttin' it out there for ya.

 

[chanelvaps]

hmmmm..shows you what I know. have always done this because I thought it was necessary to continue to filter out the gunk in the water. Still so much cloudiness and the back washing shows a lot of dirt in the filter.

Running the pump all night to

If it's to mix the water an hour will likely be more than enough. It is recommended to make an addition of ONE chemical, mix and then do the next. It's recommended and I have to admit I don't always follow that but I'm puttin' it out there for ya.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

If you're still in SLAM than yes the pump should be running 24/7. If you have clownishness you'd also want to run it.

Sorry, I thought you were clear.

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi channelvaps. Thanks for the pm. Glad to hear you've got the leak solved and happy you're ready to start slamming again!

Just to refresh this a.m., when you test this a.m., can you also tell us how the water looks and if you appear to have gotten most of the debris removed previously?

Once your ph is at an acceptable level, eg 7.2 or higher, forget about any other additions etc. until you've nailed the slam and pass the overnight chlorine loss test. When you're slamming, ph cannot read accurately anyway, and anything else is a distraction from the prime objective

I know you're nervous about this, but after this slam, you are going be happily in control of your pool, so no fear

The key to being done with this is once you calculate your slam number based on your test results, to be merciless in keeping the number at slam level without letting it drop - that is the fastest way forward with no backsliding so make sure you have enough bleach/liquid chlorine on hand so you don't run out.

I can't wait to see the results!

Total side note to kiss4afrog - re:

It's toxic to plants and lawn so you have to be careful where you put backwash. You don't want to use it to water landscape plants. They can be much more sensitive to it than grass.

Borates/boric acid/boron is actually used as an agricultural supplement due to its low toxicity and ant-fungal properties. In the dose used in a pool, eg 50 ppm, (.005%) it really shouldn't be at a level to hurt plants. However, there are other things that plants may not love, such as the salinity from added salt or even the byproduct salinity from using chlorine etc. With borates, its all in the concentration. That's why it is safely used in soaps/shampoos/eyewash/lotions/ etc. I just didn't want anyone extrapolating that a pool level of borates is particularly toxic. Cheers.

 

[Kiss4aFrog]

This is the internet so a bit of caution is called for. I'm not posting what I know to be a fact I'm only reposting what I've read. I have read in numerous posts on this forum, other forums and some horticulture papers that boron is essential to plants for good health. I researched a bit before I tossed in 22 boxes of Borax. Like anything, something that is essential at one level can turn harmful if taken to excess.
At the recommended 50ppm level in a pool there are a lot of warnings about letting pets drink routinely from it and warnings that at that level it's gone from essential to toxic. There seem to be way more opinions that it's toxic than it's safe and in some cases there is data on what's necessary, recommended and excessive.
I guess it's best to do your own research and form your own opinion.:study: :google:

I can't say either way as I'm not that smart about the chemicals and I haven't tried to exhaustively research it. There is a whole lot of controversy on it though. I've done the borate addition and I've been dumping the backwash in my lawn and the lawn looks OK and my pets with their nails don't get near the vinyl liner so I don't have any personal evidence it's harming my grass or pets :?

I'm going to stick with thinking it's toxic at that 50ppm concentration to plants and pets simply because each was expensive, is difficult to replace and won't be the same if I do have to replace them if I use that water on them and I'm right. The only inconvenience is that I now water an area of foundation plants from the well instead of using the backwash and keep a closer eye on the color of my lawn where the discharge hose dumps.