I need help understanding how my pool operates..

[DrewDown]

Quick background: I've never owned a pool or even lived in a house with a pool. Around September I moved into a new house with a pool. Within the first week the pool pump broke. I was fighting with a home warranty company (I had the equipment inspected prior to move in) and with lots of other moving stresses I just completed neglected the pool while having that fight. Around early February I finally felt like I needed to get the pool figured out and couldn't neglect it any longer.

I paid out of pocket to have the pump fixed. I cleaned the filter, brushed, vacuumed and repeated. The water actually looked pretty good. I pretty quickly learned I probably needed at least a partial drain due to high CH (800+) and CYA (203). I went ahead and did a full drain and refill. A few people had recommended the TFP community but I made the mistake of thinking I'd let the local pool store help me get everything in range and then takeover from there. I quickly realized that was taking me in expensive circles and bought a test kit and signed up here.

Reading here and just addressing one thing at a time, and rereading, searching, etc has been a huge help. I'm still using a few tabs until I get my CYA around 40 but otherwise I've just been using muriatic acid and liquid chlorine and testing at home. I'm feeling great about where I am with the water testing and cross referencing any questions here as far as the water chemistry goes. I think I'm ready to dive a little deeper.

One thing I'd like the ability to use is the spa heater. All of my equipment looks pretty old and I'm guessing the gas heater is from the late 90's when the pool was built. I'm hesitant to just fire it up and see what happens because how expensive my gas bills have already been and I don't want to accidentally heat the entire pool. Which takes me to another thing that has crossed my mind. I can't tell if the plaster in the spa just looks older due to being shallow and getting more sun, or if the water is more stagnant in there and I need to do something to cycle the water better in there.

In Feb I completely cleaned the filter and added the required amount of DE powder. I made a note of where the pressure gauge was reading when the pump was on high. Since then I've vacuumed out a good amount of debris, especially after we had a large mesquite removed but the pump pressure has not moved at all from where it was in February. Does this seem normal? It is a pretty large filter in my opinion. Since the pump was rebuilt I haven't programmed it and am just leaving it running on low full time. Every day I bump it up and hit Quick Clean for a few hours. Despite this the skimmer basket basically catches nothing and I have to vacuum out most of the debris. I've read a little bit about moving jets around but it's too cold for me to get in and I have no confidence in doing that successfully.

My last question at the moment is what, if any, equipment would you guys recommend to make my life easier? I was thinking of starting with one of those top skimmers to start. I don't mind a weekly vacuum but It's a pain to have to do that daily or if any guests are coming over. I currently have to manually push around the vacuum at the bottom. It can be time consuming. I don't want to spend a ton of money but I can probably talk myself into something if it will significantly make things easier on myself. Especially considering I'm saving money by not hiring anyone. I know this was a long post but hopefully it's appropriate for this section. I'll follow up with some pictures.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Drew,

Please post several pics of your equipment pad and an overall pic of your pool..

We need to understand your plumbing in order to help you get things running the way you want.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

I think the water looks great in the direct sun. In the shade you can see the plaster has seen better days. I’m also getting leaf staining. Once I vacuum it tends to go away in a few hours.

 

[DrewDown]

When I went to take pics of the pool equipment I saw that the heater was actually very well marked. Started it right up and could feel hot water coming out of the jets. We might use it tonight so I’ll know for sure but I feel pretty good about that.

 

[Bperry]

I think the water looks great in the direct sun. In the shade you can see the plaster has seen better days. I’m also getting leaf staining. Once I vacuum it tends to go away in a few hours.

You might consider a pool cleaning robot, then you wont need to vaccuum.

 

[mknauss]

You might consider a pool cleaning robot, then you wont need to vaccuum.

I see a In Floor Cleaning System valve set up. Do you have ports in the floor of the pool?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Drew,

Thanks for the pics...

Can you please take one more of your automation's front panel..

I'll work on answering your questions..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Drew,

A quick review of your pool..

Your pump is connected to your automated "Intake" valve. This valve is controlled by your automation system and is in one of two positions.. The Pool mode or the Spa mode.. It is currently in the Pool mode, where is connected to your skimmers. In the Spa mode, it would turn 180 degrees, and be connected to your Spa drain.

You have an IntelliFlo VS pump, which is normally controlled by an RS-485 cable from your automation. I do not see this cable connected to your pump. Not sure if your old automation system has the ability to control your pump or not. I think it is an old ComuPool system, but can't really see the main panel.

Water passes through your pump and into DE filter via a "Push/Pull" backwash valve.. The water leaves the filter and goes into your heater. It comes out of your heater and goes to your automated "Return" valve.. This valve switches your system between the Pool mode and the Spa mode. It is currently set in the Pool mode.. (It is off-set, so that a little water goes to your spa when in the pool mode. This is what causes your spa to overflow into your pool.

In the Spa mode, the return valve would send the water to your spa jets. In the Pool mode, the water goes to a manual valve that sends the water to your In-Floor-Cleaning-System (IFCS) or back to your pool returns.. (I assume the pool returns.. Do you have any water features???)

I suggest that you turn that manual valve so the all the water goes to your IFCS and see how well it works.. (Handle pointed fully toward the house) I would then turn the handle pointed fully away from the house and see what happens.. See if you have wall mounted returns (Eyeballs)..

Normally your heater would be controlled by your automation. You would select the Spa mode on the automation and it would turn on the heater. The heater would be set to full hot on the heater and your automation would control the water temp.

This is basically how your system should work..

Play with it, and see how it works..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

Last night I manually flipped the control on the box to "spa" mode. This caused two of the valves to automatically move 180 degrees. With the pump on high the jets began bubbling as I would expect in a spa.

Then I toggled the rocker switch on the heater to "Spa" and it immediately began heating. After about 25 mins it was warm enough to get in. After about 45 I had to dial back the heat. It worked great. I'm hesitant to move any valves manually because it seems to be working properly, no?

I have no water features. As far as In Floor Cleaning I want to say there is some type of system. I know when it got dirty and I turned the pump on it seemed to be directed the debris in certain areas. That could just be how it happened to be blowing around though. Should I still move the valves manually?

Also there is a control panel in the house which doesn't appear to be working. As for the pump cable I see one going up to the panel, and another from the panel underground and appears to come up into the heater.

 

[DrewDown]

Another thing, on the ComPool panel where it says Manual Control and is Sharpied "Spa" and "Pool". Those control the underwater lights. Except they are labeled opposite of what they control.

 

[Jimrahbe]

You should not have to do anything at the heater, but leave it on and set to pool or spa, it should not matter.

The automation should turn the heater on, and the automation has a temp control to adjust the heat..

You have one manual valve, how hard can that be?? Just note where it is now and then adjust it like I suggested.. When done with the tests, just set it back to where it is now.

My whole point is.... if you are not using the IFCS, why are you not running all your water back to the wall returns.. I "assume" you have wall returns with eyeballs.. Is that true??

You have a ComPool system that can be replaced with an EasyTouch upgrade. Then you could control your pump with the RS-485 com port.

In any case, most of it appears to be working.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

You should not have to do anything at the heater, but leave it on and set to pool or spa, it should not matter.

The automation should turn the heater on, and the automation has a temp control to adjust the heat..

You have one manual valve, how hard can that be?? Just note where it is now and then adjust it like I suggested.. When done with the tests, just set it back to where it is now.

My whole point is.... if you are not using the IFCS, why are you not running all your water back to the wall returns.. I "assume" you have wall returns with eyeballs.. Is that true??

You have a ComPool system that can be replaced with an EasyTouch upgrade. Then you could control your pump with the RS-485 com port.

In any case, most of it appears to be working.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks again. So to be clear the valve I should be turning to check for IFCS is the one in the middle that is slightly offset?

EDIT: I turned that valve toward the house like you said. Definitely seems to have directed all of the water to the pool and now the little nozzles are popping up and down

 

[Jimrahbe]

Drew,

Yes..

You have three Jandy style valves.. Both the Intake valve and your Return valves are automated.. The have an actuator mounted to the top of the valve itself.. The automation controls these two valves as you noted when switching between the Pool and Spa modes.

That only leaves one Jandy valve.. It is a manual valve and has no actuator.. It is currently set to allow most of the water to go to the IFCS and a little water back to your pool.. Play with it and see what it does.

Do you have wall returns???

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

Drew,

Yes..

You have three Jandy style valves.. Both the Intake valve and your Return valves are automated.. The have an actuator mounted to the top of the valve itself.. The automation controls these two valves as you noted when switching between the Pool and Spa modes.

That only leaves one Jandy valve.. It is a manual valve and has no actuator.. It is currently set to allow most of the water to go to the IFCS and a little water back to your pool.. Play with it and see what it does.

Do you have wall returns???

Thanks,

Jim R.

That makes perfect sense now. I appreciate the patience and explanations.

There are no wall returns unfortunately

 

[Jimrahbe]

There are no wall returns unfortunately

Drew,

Then I am puzzled as to where the two pipe go..

Did you try that valve in both positions? One where the handle points at the house, and the other were the handle points away from the house??

Do you have two skimmers? If so, you might look down into the skimmers and see what happens when the valve handle is pointed away from the house.. at the same time, look at your spa and see if you have a much larger spillover than normal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

Drew,

Then I am puzzled as to where the two pipe go..

Did you try that valve in both positions? One where the handle points at the house, and the other were the handle points away from the house??

Do you have two skimmers? If so, you might look down into the skimmers and see what happens when the valve handle is pointed away from the house.. at the same time, look at your spa and see if you have a much larger spillover than normal.

Thanks,

Jim R.

In the pool there are three of these pipes toward the surface. When the valve is toward the house I don't feel any water coming out of them. When I move it 180 degrees I feel a strong flow of water from all three. The spa also starts draining into the pool. To me it seems as though water is being sucked from the bottom of the spa and returning through those top "jets" in the pool". I only have one skimmer basket. The pool and spa seem to have two drains each unless I am wrong about the function. I took a pic of that as well.

Those “jets” must be the returns? I just hadn’t felt any water coming out of them when the valve was toward the house. But then I wouldn't expect to see so water water going from the spa into the pool. I would expect the opposite.

 

[DrewDown]

There is only one skimmer basket and water seems to be flowing into it regardless of the valve position

 

[DrewDown]

Sorry for the triple post but could it be set up for floor vs surface? I can see a lot more top water movement now and stuff making its way to the basket. Which I wasn’t getting any of before.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Drew,

Ok, the three pipes close to the surface are what we call Pool Returns.. It is what all pools that do not have an IFCS have. You are lucky to have them.. Their whole job is to provide some movement of the water so that the skimmer works better.

That manual valve appears to be there so you can run the IFCS or the wall returns..

It does not make any sense that the spa would drain..

When in the Pool mode, water should fill your spa and overflow into your pool.
When in the Spa mode, water should drop just a little in the spa and it should no longer overflow into the pool.

In the pool mode your automated valves should be positioned like in your original pics..

In the Spa mode, they both should move 180 degrees.

For your spa to drain, the Intake valve must be in the Spa position, when it should be in the Pool position. (Or I guess the Intake valve could be bad and leak like crazy.. ???

I'm too confused to continue tonight.. I'll be back tomorrow..

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[DrewDown]

I’ve played with things a bit more and here’s what I’ve come up with

Far left will turn on the jets, middle will adjust flow between the IFCS or the upper returns. The far right does slowly drop the water level in the spa but because of the waterfall refilling it it doesn’t drop much/very fast.

Thoughts? Is this what you’ve already been telling me?