I have an odd issue, possibly a leak? but not quite sure..

[SteveTech]

So I have a 12K pool with a SPA that spills over into the pool (via 3 spill ways). I run the pump about 7 hours a day to do a full cycle of the water. what seems to be happening is during the night over time, the spa level drops about 5-6 inches after the pump shuts off, but no more than that.. Pumps turns back on in the AM and SPA fills back up to spill ways. Pool level does not change over night, remains constant overnight.

I am thinking leak, but the spa only drains a certain amount then stops.. which if there was a leak, I would imagine it would continue to leak.. with that being said, without the pool mister on, the pool water does go down over a few days when the spa gets filled back up in the AM when the pump kicks in..

My first guess would be to have the spa return vents checked.. but then again, the water level stops at some point (jets are still a few inches under water as well)

Any thoughts? Appreciated as I am looking for some feedback before I call in someone to look at it

 

[an1vrsy]

Isolate the spa from pool by manipulating your valves. Turn off spillover schedule. Spa should just sit there. Keep pool pump running for 24 hours, watch/see if spa water level drops.

 

[HermanTX]

If your spillway is open when the pump shuts off, it may be the spa is draining back to the pool. The pool is a much larger surface area so you may not see the incremental rise in water level compared to the drop in the spa.
Also, when the spa stops "leaking", how is that level compared to the level of the pool? Are they the same level?

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

The number one reason that a spa drains back into the pool is a bad or dirty check valve on the spa return line.

Show us some pics of your equipment pad.. Show us some pics of the spa.

Also tell us where it stops drain.. I suspect it stops right below the spa jets. Edit... keep in mind the spa will only drain down until it gets to the pool level.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[SteveTech]

Steve,

The number one reason that a spa drains back into the pool is a bad or dirty check valve on the spa return line.

Show us some pics of your equipment pad.. Show us some pics of the spa.

Also tell us where it stops drain.. I suspect it stops right below the spa jets. Edit... keep in mind the spa will only drain down until it gets to the pool level.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Ill take some pictures in the AM before and after the pump kicks in along with the pad.. I will say that when the water level in the spa settles, the jets are still several inches under the water line..

 

[Jimrahbe]

Steve,

What is right at the water line, anything?

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[generessler]

What @Jimrahbe said... If you have Pentaire or Jandy check valves, it's ~10 minutes to remove the cover, inspect the rubber flapper seal and spring, gently wipe gunk from flapper and its seat in the housing, lube with silicone grease, and reassemble.

Do be careful not to lose the screws or seal o-ring. Don't over-tighten. A cracked housing is bad news.

This is all good to do anyway every year or two, and it might fix the problem. I'm about due. During 14 hours the spa drops ~3 inches or ~75 gallons.

If the flapper is torn, replace. I'd go for an OEM part; the cheap clones don't seem to hold up.

Another item along the same lines is the diverter valve for the drains (if that branch doesn't have a check valve). Servicing that - new o-rings and lube the seal - is a little more work, but only a little.

 

[SteveTech]

Steve,

What is right at the water line, anything?

Thanks,

Jim R.

nothing.. spill ways above, jets and vents below..

 

[SteveTech]

What @Jimrahbe said... If you have Pentaire or Jandy check valves, it's ~10 minutes to remove the cover, inspect the rubber flapper seal and spring, gently wipe gunk from flapper and its seat in the housing, lube with silicone grease, and reassemble.

Do be careful not to lose the screws or seal o-ring. Don't over-tighten. A cracked housing is bad news.

This is all good to do anyway every year or two, and it might fix the problem. I'm about due. During 14 hours the spa drops ~3 inches or ~75 gallons.

If the flapper is torn, replace. I'd go for an OEM part; the cheap clones don't seem to hold up.

Another item along the same lines is the diverter valve for the drains (if that branch doesn't have a check valve). Servicing that - new o-rings and lube the seal - is a little more work, but only a little.

I would put money on it that the previous owner never replaced the check valves or any of the diverter valves.. pictures to follow

 

[SteveTech]

Ok, here are pictures of the pad..

Equipment 2

• SteveTech
• Mar 7, 2023
• 2

Equipment 1

• SteveTech
• Mar 7, 2023

Off the back of the heater, two check valves, one in front of the diverter and one behind to the return (I am assuming the SPA), second one is the pump and inlets, which I am going to assume is the skimmer, and one for pool vents and one for spa vents (with valves)?? or is it one pipe for the pool and two pipes for the spa? (looking at diverter).. One thing I noticed is that the vent pipes, both of the valves are in the left/right position, not up/down.. is that correct?

I'll also add that the pictures were taken in near darkness on an iphone 14.. that new low light mode is incredible..

 

[SteveTech]

Ok, so the waterline this morning..

IMG_2293.JPG

• SteveTech
• Mar 8, 2023

IMG_2294.JPG

• SteveTech
• Mar 8, 2023

The Spa interior picture is about where the water stops (probably an inch less as we had heavy rain last night), basically bottom of tile, still several inches above the jets.. and if I was going to guess, that water line is about 11-12 inches above the pool line

Also, I am thinking that the plaster is going to need a refinish soon.. esp with a salt pool.

 

[Jimrahbe]

Also, I am thinking that the plaster is going to need a refinish soon.. esp with a salt pool.

Steve,

Thanks for the pics,

Salt pools do not cause your plaster to fail any more than a standard chlorine pool...

Open the check valve that is after the salt cell and Return valve. The pipe on the left with the check is the line going to your spa.

Normally this would cause the spa to drain down until the water is below the jets, but it can't hurt to look at it and make sure it is ok.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[an1vrsy]

In your thread title, you surmised "could it be a leak". Your spa photos show the spa water draining down to just below the spillways. If the check valves were the issue, wouldn't the check valve continue to weep water passed it till below the spa jets? The spa water could continue to lower but the pump comes back on and fills the spa for the spillway action.

Since the spa water stopped lowering to just below the spillway openings, you either have to see how low the check valves will continue to weep water pass them by leaving the pump off longer to determine if it is the check valve. Or before the pump comes back on for the daily scheduled run, check spa water where it stops to see if you have a leak in the spa.

 

[SteveTech]

Steve,

Thanks for the pics,

Salt pools do not cause your plaster to fail any more than a standard chlorine pool...

Open the check valve that is after the salt cell and Return valve. The pipe on the left with the check is the line going to your spa.

Normally this would cause the spa to drain down until the water is below the jets, but it can't hurt to look at it and make sure it is ok.

Thanks,

Jim R.

I inspected both valves, one to spa and one back of heater.. The valve that is off the back of the heater is completely shot, looks like the spring is done as the flap is open when system is not running. SPA valve "seems" closed, but I can tell you that neither of them have been serviced probably since build. You can usually tell is the screw heads have been loosened/tightened previously.. they look untouched.

I have two new re-valve kits coming in, so let's see what they do.. I have a feeling that this will resolve the issue.. while I am at it, is there any other valves/gaskets I should look at? I figure if I am going to have it down and apart, I might as well knock out all I can..

This forum has saved me a lot of grief.. Next will be proper run time / SWCG levels, etc.. Thanks for everything

 

[HermanTX]

@SteveTech Please update us after you redress each of the check valves.
The forum is manned by volunteers that answers questions and provide guidance. Keeping the website highly functional with the latest technology is key to making the forum workable and enjoyable. Please consider and Become a TFP Supporter

 

[SteveTech]

Circling back here.. I have replaced both check valves.. (piece of cake for those wondering) on both the SPA return and directly after the heater going into SWCG. I had to remove some calcium buildup on the SPA return valve inlet, but the valves seem to seat correctly. With that said, water level drain (see above) remains, no change and the level does not seem to go down any further (15 hour window with pump off).. There are no cracks in tiles or around jets, no obvious openings.. One thing to note, based on where the pad is, I am wondering if where the SPA drains down to is in fact level with a valve or other plumbing system part on the pad?

One other thing I noticed is that after using the SPA, when I shut off the air, I am still getting bubbles out of the jets.. normal? getting air from somewhere it seems?

 

[mknauss]

Water flow through the spa jets will pull in air. Most spas do not need blowers.

Also, your SWCG creates hydrogen gas that exits returns when operating.

 

[SteveTech]

Circling back here.. I have replaced both check valves.. (piece of cake for those wondering) on both the SPA return and directly after the heater going into SWCG. I had to remove some calcium buildup on the SPA return valve inlet, but the valves seem to seat correctly. With that said, water level drain (see above) remains, no change and the level does not seem to go down any further (15 hour window with pump off).. There are no cracks in tiles or around jets, no obvious openings.. One thing to note, based on where the pad is, I am wondering if where the SPA drains down to is in fact level with a valve or other plumbing system part on the pad?

One other thing I noticed is that after using the SPA, when I shut off the air, I am still getting bubbles out of the jets.. normal? getting air from somewhere it seems?

The only other thing I can figure out with this is that the waterway valve on the intake is bad and there is a leak inside the valve allowing the water to drop through the SPA intakes. the return has a brand-new check valve, so it is not there.. OR the waterway valve on the intake side was not configured correctly and is not 100% closed. Thought?